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Biodiesel

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    #32
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Richie15 wrote: »
    What's PPO?
    Pure Plant Oil, I'm guessing. It's essentially filtered waste vegetable oil.


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    #33
    D'Peoples Voice
    Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭D'Peoples Voice


    Surely reducing the supply of (bio)diesel to Europe will only see the price of ordinary diesel increase ( albeit in the short-term)!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSTRE52B1W920090312?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
    BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union has imposed anti-dumping and anti-subsidy duties on imports of biodiesel from the United States, the latest in a series of trade frictions between the two trading giants.

    From Friday, U.S. firms exporting biodiesel into the EU will have to pay additional anti-dumping tariffs of up to 29 percent, and anti-subsidy duties of between 29 and 41 percent for an initial six months, the EU said in its Official Journal.

    "The level of the measures, which are applied together, is set at between 211.20 euros ($269.9) and 237.00 euros per tonne for the anti-subsidy duties and between 23.60 euros and 208.20 euros per tonne for the anti-dumping measures," the European Commission said in a statement.

    "This is a flawed decision. The imposition of provisional duties is nothing more than a politically expedient effort to appease the protectionist whims of the European biodiesel industry," Manning Feraci, Vice President of Federal Affairs for the U.S. National Biodiesel Board, said.

    The Commission carried out an investigation into imports of U.S. biodiesel last year following a complaint from EU producers of biodiesel -- by far the main biofuel produced in Europe -- who said they were being hammered by U.S. subsidies.


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    #34
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Hi all,
    can anyone add any practical experience of full biodiesel use to this thread? Is anyone using it for home heating?

    regards
    Stovepipe


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    #35
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Pure Plant Oil, I'm guessing. It's essentially filtered waste vegetable oil.
    PPO is usually pressed from Rapeseed, WVO is waste vegetable oil.


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    #36
    IT Loser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭IT Loser


    With due respect, anyone who buys Biodiesel needs examining. Make it yourselves people, go onto youtube and type in MIKE PELLEY. He will show you how it be done.


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    #37
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    D'Peoples Voice wrote: »
    Surely reducing the supply of (bio)diesel to Europe will only see the price of ordinary diesel increase ( albeit in the short-term)!

    http://www.reuters.com/article/environmentNews/idUSTRE52B1W920090312?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

    I had read something about that alright, a practice called "Splash and Dash" where U.S. Biodiesel sellers import cheap biodiesel, mix in some U.S. made biodiesel, and sell the resulting stuff on to Europe and claim a bunch of tax credits. Didn't think it would all end up with import tariffs though - surely if we want to get off fossil fuels, we should grab every drop! subsidised or not.
    IT Loser wrote: »
    With due respect, anyone who buys Biodiesel needs examining. Make it yourselves people, go onto youtube and type in MIKE PELLEY. He will show you how it be done.

    I've seen some materials on the matter, first you have to acquire some used veggie oil, heat it up, test it for acidity levels, use a mix of lye and sodium hydroxide, leave the whole thing in a heated tank for 3 days then run the result through a number of highly specialised filters.

    In short, you have to be a D.I.Y enthusiast with a lot of free time and a good deal of knowledge. You also have to compete with the big recyclers for precious little raw material. Oh and, there's also some nasty road fuel duty and tax issues as well.

    Practical for some, but it makes little sense to say that anyone who buys biodiesel "needs their head examined"


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    #38
    Richie15
    Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭Richie15


    SeanW wrote: »
    Oh and, there's also some nasty road fuel duty and tax issues as well.
    Shhhhhh! :p

    That's the first time I've seent he entire process simplified like that, been reading up on it a bit. Cheers! :)


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    #39
    watts2434
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭watts2434


    JA12 wrote: »
    I've been sending emails to John Gormley, as he is the most senior Green in the Government, as well as being Minister for the Enviroment.

    John Gormley

    (minister@environ.ie if that doesn't work...)

    Might I suggest that some more emails got sent that way, it might make more of a difference if more people than just myself got on this bandwagon :)

    J.
    whats the email? Im in boss sign me up.

    muddy


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    #40
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    Hi All,
    Looking at making my own biodiesel does anybody have any experience in this? Just looking at it today but would like to know if the biodiesel produced will run in domestic heating systems and any diesel car without conversion. What oil is best to use is used veg oil usable or any good?
    I have been looking at setups to make it are they expensive to run? what is involved in the process as I have no understanding of it (heating and filtering is all I know).
    Any help would be great.
    Thanks


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    #41
    Ghost Estate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Ghost Estate


    studdlymurphy wrote: »
    Hi All,
    Looking at making my own biodiesel does anybody have any experience in this? Just looking at it today but would like to know if the biodiesel produced will run in domestic heating systems and any diesel car without conversion. What oil is best to use is used veg oil usable or any good?
    I have been looking at setups to make it are they expensive to run? what is involved in the process as I have no understanding of it (heating and filtering is all I know).
    Any help would be great.
    Thanks

    oil boilers are kerosene so i doubt it would work. proper biodiesel will work in a car without conversion, but the quality has to be up to scratch.

    if you want to run the heating off it you should look for a waste oil burner, cn be fitted to existing boilers i do believe. you can throw anything into those including used engine oil.


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    #42
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    Ghost Estate wrote: »
    oil boilers are kerosene so i doubt it would work. proper biodiesel will work in a car without conversion, but the quality has to be up to scratch.

    if you want to run the heating off it you should look for a waste oil burner, cn be fitted to existing boilers i do believe. you can throw anything into those including used engine oil.

    My boiler runs on agri diesel not kerosene. I had heard of the waste oil burners are they any use as there is always alot of used engine oil floating about.
    I was looking at a full setup that will deliver good quality oil. Looks liek I could do the first 1000l for about 850euro and each 1000l after that for 400euro which is pretty cheap 85cent for first batch and 40cent each following batch. Has anybody done this before is there alot of work involved in it? I do have spare time as I work shift so shouldnt be a problem but would just like to know.


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    #43
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    If you have a Riello type rocket boiler they supply a set of seals for bio diesel so easy to convert.

    If you have a fancy condensing type then I do not know what might happen. Stick to the low maintenance basic technology if you are going down that route.


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    #44
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    5000 euro fine if you are caught burning waste oil without a licence from the EPA


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    #45
    Ghost Estate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Ghost Estate


    dathi wrote: »
    5000 euro fine if you are caught burning waste oil without a licence from the EPA

    Of course you're not going to get caught.

    The Law in this country seems to put an abrupt halt to anything that strays outside the status quo, anything the slightest bit entrepreneurial or innovative seems tangled in legal problems

    I think Google's Eric Schmidt <snip> was right about one thing: The Government is an incumbent protection machine.


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    #46
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    nice rant ghost you seem to forget two christmases ago when all the pork and ham had to be removed from shelves because of dioxin contamination when one of our northern cousins supplied oil that was contaminated with waste engine oil to a pig feed manufacturer .


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    #47
    Ghost Estate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Ghost Estate


    dathi wrote: »
    nice rant ghost you seem to forget two christmases ago when all the pork and ham had to be removed from shelves because of dioxin contamination when one of our northern cousins supplied oil that was contaminated with waste engine oil to a pig feed manufacturer .

    but the OP wants it for a domestic system so I can't imagine any pork getting contaminated


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    #48
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    no he will just contaminate himself and his neighbours with dioxins and then wonder why everyones health is suffering


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    #49
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Hey everyone;

    On a semi-related note, does anyone know where I could buy Biodiesel for my car? Anywhere in the Dublin or North Midlands area.


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    #50
    Gunner69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Gunner69


    Hi, As we all know diesel is sky rocketing and the AA are forecasting € 2.00 per litre by mid year. Has anyone stepped up to the mark in Ireland with supplying bio diesel on the forecourt. Has anyone an up to date list of Forecourts and prices. Presumambly the price of bio is still around € 1.25 a litre, as the raw material hasnt increased...............this surely makes it a very real alternative now. Can anyone help with advertising a list of real alternative suppliers ? ?


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    #51
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,872 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Gunner69 wrote: »
    Hi, As we all know diesel is sky rocketing and the AA are forecasting € 2.00 per litre by mid year. Has anyone stepped up to the mark in Ireland with supplying bio diesel on the forecourt. Has anyone an up to date list of Forecourts and prices. Presumambly the price of bio is still around € 1.25 a litre, as the raw material hasnt increased...............this surely makes it a very real alternative now. Can anyone help with advertising a list of real alternative suppliers ? ?

    Have a look here and here.


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    #52
    Gunner69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭Gunner69


    Jeez this is incredible, thanks for info, we al need to go underground so and make our own eh.


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    #53
    imakebiodiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Biodiesel can be used in a conventional central heating burner. The setting should be reset to diesel or gas oil settings. This normally involves replacing the nozzle for a slightly lower output one, turning the pump pressure up 15 % and adjusting the air to get a clean burn.
    Central heating burners use rubber seals and o rings which will not last long with biodiesel.
    Riello supply a biodiesel kit for their burners which replaces all the seals. I have been using biodiesel in my heating system for three years without any problems.
    It is completely legal and costs me 18.7 cents per litre including tax.


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    #54
    studdlymurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭studdlymurphy


    imakebiodiesel wrote: »
    Biodiesel can be used in a conventional central heating burner. The setting should be reset to diesel or gas oil settings. This normally involves replacing the nozzle for a slightly lower output one, turning the pump pressure up 15 % and adjusting the air to get a clean burn.
    Central heating burners use rubber seals and o rings which will not last long with biodiesel.
    Riello supply a biodiesel kit for their burners which replaces all the seals. I have been using biodiesel in my heating system for three years without any problems.
    It is completely legal and costs me 18.7 cents per litre including tax.

    Where do you get your biodiesel from?


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    #55
    imakebiodiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    I make it myself. I collect waste veg oil from 3 local restaurants and process 150 litres in a single batch every 2 weeks. It takes about 3 hours and the cost of raw materials, chemicals and electricity is 14 cents per litre. If I use it as fuel in my car I pay the revenue 42cents per litre but if I use it as heating oil I pay 4.7 cents, hence the total of 18.7 cents.
    Its a safe and fairly simple process, I demonstrate how it is done every other Saturday at my place in Lismore Co. Waterford.
    I only use biodiesel to heat a rented property that I own, my own house is heated with unprocessed waste veg oil at a total cost of 0 cents. However this is a non standard burner and boiler.


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    #56
    CATSEYES8787
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭CATSEYES8787


    Hi all,

    I have in mind to buy a diesel car which I would intend to run on 100% biodiesel; however, it seems that places that sell this fuel are rather rare. I phoned a few companies today: Green Biofuel, which doesn't seem to exist anymore/Biodiesel Production Ireland Ltd, which doesn't sell to the public, only to delivery trucks and farmers for their tractors.

    So I would like to know if there are people around the Dublin/Wicklow/Kildare area who have managed to get biodiesel, where, for how much, as well as if modifications on the car were needed (and the cost involved).

    I have also come accross PPO when doing research, which stands for pure plant oil and if people are using this fuel to run their diesel engine, I would like to know about it as well, although I know it involves more modifications on the car to heat up this fuel before it enters the combustion chamber. But same questions anyway: where do you get it, for how much and cost of car modifications.

    And finally, I am also wondering if E85 bio-ethanol will ever come back on the market, I was gutted when I discovered it was withdrawn from Maxol stations earlier this year.

    Thank you ;)


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    #57
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I bought a diesel car (my first) about 18 months ago with the specific intention of experimenting with biodiesel. Unfortunately what little biodiesel sales were going on 2008 seems to have more or less dried up.

    I've been going between Dublin and Longford now for a while and have not been able to find biodiesel anywhere. It was posted on these forums some time ago that there's a bunch of new red tape drowning anyone who might want to sell biodiesel, rendering the idea nonviable.:mad:

    If you were fortunate enough to get your hands on a biodiesel supply, you would not have to modify the car at all, provided it was not a really old one with natural rubber fuel lines - these would have to be replaced as biodiesel has a slight solvent effect, to which natural rubber is susceptible.

    As for PPO, there's some of that floating around alright, but the car would have to be modified quite substantially as the veggie oil would have to be heated thoroughly to gain the required viscosity.

    By all means get yourself a diesel car though regardless, mine's an oldie but a goodie, saves me a fortune on fuel and is enjoyable to drive (99 Toyota Avensis)


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    #58
    code187.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭code187.2010


    Veggie oil can also play havoc with fuel filters.


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    #59
    imakebiodiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    The current tax situation means that it is unprofitable for medium sized biodiesel producers to survive. Even large producers who supply oil companies and fleets have a very small margin.
    If you want to drive on a high percentage of biodiesel then you will most likely have to make it yourself.
    I make 150 litres every 2 weeks, it takes 2 to 3 hours and ends up costing 14 cents per litre in materials and electricity. I pay the taxman 42 cents per litre.
    The processor I use costs 790 euro which I got back in savings in less than 4 months.
    Its an interesting hobby and saves me a lot of money. <MODSNIP> Link to off-site forum removed </MODSNIP>


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    #60
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    great link, thanks


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    #61
    imakebiodiesel
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    If you do want to make your own biodiesel, there is a very active forum at www.biodiesel.infopop.cc of people in Ireland who make their own . Its legal and its cheap. Click on forums / biodiesel connections/ Ireland biodiesel.


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