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Biodiesel

124

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,716 ✭✭✭SeanW


    You're thinking of modifications for PPO - biodiesel works in just about anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stev.k


    hello to all, i'm new to the site just trying to learn what i can about biodiesel for home heating oil, i know you probably have covered this already but i need all the help i can get, a member stated in the past that he runs his Riello kero burner on biodiesel by just turning up the pressure on the pump and changing the nozzle,
    1) is it that easy ?
    2) A BIG ASK, is there anyone in the mullingar area that would sell me some of the chemicals needed to make a sample batch ? before I commit to buying in the amounts the vetran biodiesel makers are talking about
    3) would it be safe to make it in an attached garage to the house ?
    all help much appreciated and thanks in advance
    steve


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Hello stev.k,
    The Riello burners can run on biodiesel but its not as simple as you describe, The various seals on burners are made of rubber and will dissolve in biodiesel in a couple of weeks. So if you reset the pump pressure and adjusted the burner to run on biodiesel it would quickly start to malfunction. Riello supply a biodiesel kit which comprises a replacement pump with viton seals, all the other seals required, a replacement flexible hose and inline filter. Any competent heating engineer could fit the kit and adjust the burner. I fitted one to my burner in my house in Belfast and it has run happily for 3 years now. I use B90 (90% biodiesel 10%Kerosene) to avoid gelling problems in cold weather. Warmflow engineering in Lisburn are the Riello agents and can order the kit for you. The instructions come in Italian only but I can give you a translation.
    You might also be interested in looking at the boiler in my house in Lismore , Co. Waterford. It runs on waste vegetable oil without converting to biodiesel.
    Visit mistralni.co.uk for small amounts of chemicals. They supply all over Ireland by courier. 25 litres of methanol and 1 kg of Potassium Hydroxide would be a good starter amount. Dont use Sodium hydroxide because its a pain in the ass when you later scale up.
    Many homebrewers have their processors in garages next or joined to their houses. Biodiesel is very safe, less flammable than diesel. However you should not store methanol close to a house and potassium hydroxide should be kept safely away from children, and adults for that matter. A lockable shed at the bottom of the garden or something like that.
    If you want to have a look at my setup you are very wecome, just send me a pm and i can give you my contact details.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stev.k


    Thanks IMAKEBIODIESEL for your fast responce, i spent most of the afternoon going around chipshops/chinese/restraunts/pubs Ect. in all the neighbouring villages with no luck someone seems to already have them sown up,i didn't think it would be difficult to get wasteoil ,i guse i am about 3years behind the trend/slow off the mark, thanks for the contacts on the Riello oil kit should be able to fit it myself, but may be back on to you for the translation.
    you say your home burner runs on wvo , is this through your Riello burner?
    as i am just going to try make bioD for heating only ,if i couldjust mix in fillterd wvo with kerothat would be just great! (if i ever find some)
    P.s have read up on your posts Great Stuff, you know your stuff ...A biodiesel GURU!:D thanks again stev


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Getting wvo can be the hardest part of making biodiesel, as you have found. If you can only get small amounts then it makes more sense to filter it to 5 microns and blend it up to 10% into your heating oil. The burner will need cleaning a bit more often. Bag filters can be bought from Oilybits in the UK.

    The burner I use here in Lismore is completely different to the Riello type burner. Its a large vapourizing pot burner called an Alaska burner. It has no moving parts, it uses about 1 litre an hour of any kind of liquid fuel, kerosene, diesel, biodiesel, polydiesel, wvo, yellow grease, even wmo. They were originally made for the US army and can be bought, brand new, for 25 dollars on Ebay. Even with shipping they cost about 100 euros.
    There are quite a few being used in Ireland in stoves and boilers. If you want to find out more about them look at our infopop forum. I cant give a link here but a search of biodiesel and ireland will find it.

    The difficulty of sourcing wvo is one of the reasons I am also making polydiesel (fuel made from waste plastics). My pilot unit has been running successfully for 6 months now and I am going to scale up this winter.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stev.k


    thanks, Imakebiodiesel, but just so i dont feck things up is it
    1)10% fillterd wvo into 90% kero or
    2) 10% kero into 90% wvo

    I need (like many others) to control the oil heating bills as the are going through the roof, but dont want to feck it up and ending up paying out more that i havent got on getting it fixed,
    Thanks again for all your help steve:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    If you are not the kind of person who cleans and maintains his own heating equipment I would not try this.
    Add no more than 10% clean, filtered and dry wvo to your kerosene. Dont pour it directly into the tank and stir it. that will almost certainly disturb sediment in the bottom of your tank and cause serious problems. Also in a large fuel tank the wvo may separate and cause problems.
    The best way is setup a 200 litre steel drum as your fuel tank. Measure in 90 litres of kerosene and 10 litres of wvo and stir. use that 100 litres and repeat when necessary.
    You may have to increase the pump pressure and adjust the air to get a clean burn. As I said above if you are not the type who enjoys tinkering with stuff this may not be for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stev.k


    thanks, no i like to take thing apart and put them back together again, lots of spare time on my hands so a project with dual benefits is the perfect thing, Hard times and the rocketing price of heating oil, its a necessity and a hobby,
    Yourself (imakebiodiesel) and some of the others on this site really seem to know there stuff, so hopefully with some help from you guys ill get it up and running!
    I got a cylinder with an emersion today im thinking of turning it upside down putting a tap on the bottom for draining off, emersion to heat the oil and the holes are allready there for plumming into other barrels to make the reactor,orderd the filter bags you told me about,still looking for pumps migth try one of them manual barrel pumps to get me started, but still no luck with the veggie oil, (but got offered 200lts of waste motor oil) any ideas what to make with it ,dangerous stuff if not burned right from what i hav read. thanks again;) stev


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Copper tanks are not ideal for veg oil or biodiesel. The copper reacts with the oil and causes it to oxidize, reducing its usable life. Ordinary steel oil drums are the best for both storage and reactor vessels.
    Wmo is easy to get, garages pay a lot to have it collected , but it is illegal to burn it in any unlicensed burner. Burning wmo at lower than 700C with either too much or too little air will release dioxins and toxic metals into the air around your property. These are heavy pollutants so most will settle directly onto you garden or your neighbours'. They persist for hundreds of years and are a direct proven cause of many cancers.
    A detailed discussion of how to build and operate a processor etc is getting a bit off topic here. Why not register on <MODSNIP> and post there, you will get loads of help and advice. I hope Im not breaking the forum rules by suggesting this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    A detailed discussion of how to build and operate a processor etc is getting a bit off topic here. Why not register on <MODSNIP> and post there, you will get loads of help and advice. I hope Im not breaking the forum rules by suggesting this.
    There's absolutely no reason why the discussion cannot continue here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Fine with me, I thought that Stev.K and I were getting a bit off topic but Im happy to keep the discussion here.
    Stev.K the best and also the cheapest vessel for a biodiesel processor is a steel oildrum. It holds 205 litres so can process 150 litres of wvo at a time. you can use the 2" and 3/4" threaded openings as connections for the pipework . The pipework should be either black iron or qualpex, no copper or zinc.
    For fittings use either black iron BSP or standard 3/4" compression fittings. You will be able to get nickel plated ball valves but you will have to settle for bronze bends and tees. A standard circulation pump of the type used for central heating is best, get one of the older models with the high wattage (90watts min). Another popular pump is the Clarke TAM105
    As to the layout there are lots of options, you can find plans all over the internet. Some are reliable some are not.
    The heater all of us use is a 3000w incalloy immersion heater, mounted vertically into the bottom of the processor.
    Once you get some oil the first thing you need to do is test it using a titration kit, you can make this up yourself using stuff you can buy in any pharmacy and supermarket.
    The result of this test tells you what process you are going to have to use. There are 3 processes. If your oil titrates at less than 2.5 then you can use the single stage base process ( unless you drive a late model common rail engined car). If the oil tests at between 2.5 and 6 you must use the 2 stage base/base process. If the oil titrates at over 6 you must use the 2 stage acid/base process. I know this sounds a bit complicated but once you get your head around it its fairly simple really.
    <MODSNIP>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 stev.k


    Sorry if i was getting of track:o, steel barrel it is then,ill take out the emersion from the copper tank <MODSNIP>


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    <MODSNIP> For more information I would recommend a website called make-biodiesel.org. Despite the similarity in names its nothing to do with me, its run by an American called Rickdatech. Its not a forum, just an information site which has all the information a beginner could need and more. Most importantly there is no wrong or out of date info on his site unlike many others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 teddyroosevelt


    [modsnip][modsnip]


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Teddyroosefelt, the supplier you mention is now out of business. Pretty well all medium sized commercial biodiesel makers in Ireland have now gone bust because of the punitive tax regime. Even the future of the one large producer, Green fuels in New Ross looks shaky.
    The government are so desperate to raise tax that they are wiping out fledgling industries that could lead to jobs and growth. Soon we will have to import the biodiesel that is mixed with petrodiesel to fulfill our fossil fuel obligations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Bioman


    I'm just getting started in making biodiesel, I used to buy it from a guy in Killarney but he stopped when the vrt went on, is there anyone willing to give me a few pointer as to how to get started without laying a heap of money till I see how it goes. Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Hello Bioman,
    Ive been making my own for 6 years now and its not difficult.
    First you have to locate a supply of wvo, liquid oil not semisolid lard.
    Second you have to test it with a titration kit to find out what process you are going to use.
    Third you can look at options for processors, large or small, steel or stainless, water or drywash, buy or build it yourself.
    <MODSNIP>


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Bioman


    That would be great imakebiodiesel I really appreciate the help.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 Bioman


    I have 1 supplier with 120 Ltrs a week. I have no clue as to size of processor or what the difference between stainless and steel is. I might be able to locate more oil but am waiting for him to get back to me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    This making your own biodiesel is rather fascinating. I just moved out to the country and I have a detached garage which would provide me with somewhere to manufacture it for personal use.

    @imakebiodiesel: Ive noticed in some of your previous threads that you have shown people how you make it at your house. Do you still do this? Ive not seen a similar post from you in a while.

    I have a lot of studying of the subject, I know absolutely nothing about it other than from what Ive read in a few threads on here. I cant imagine it will be all that difficult though. Can you suggest a place/guide where I can read up on it a bit more, so I know exactly how complicated it is before I go around seeking a source of WVO? Im in contact with takeaways through my job, so I probably have a good chance of success.

    Im in the market for a second hand car and Id love to have an early 2000's Land Rover Discovery. I used to have a 93 200 a few years ago which although a complete shed, I loved until someone stole it and burned it out! Ive yearned after one everytime I pass one on the road, but the crippling fuel costs have prevented me from seriously considering it. I think making biodiesel would be a fantastic way to be able to afford to run it, and also learn something that Ive never done before. Ive always been into computers, so getting my hands dirty will be great! Have you heard anything about the 300s/TD5 (2000-2004) running on biodiesel? Reliability, modifications etc?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30 doubledecker


    check out
    http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/
    I don't make biodiesel, only filter waste vegetable oil, but plenty of great info on that site.. search away and read read read.......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Bizziebee


    This making your own biodiesel is rather fascinating. I just moved out to the country and I have a detached garage which would provide me with somewhere to manufacture it for personal use.

    @imakebiodiesel: Ive noticed in some of your previous threads that you have shown people how you make it at your house. Do you still do this? Ive not seen a similar post from you in a while.

    I have a lot of studying of the subject, I know absolutely nothing about it other than from what Ive read in a few threads on here. I cant imagine it will be all that difficult though. Can you suggest a place/guide where I can read up on it a bit more, so I know exactly how complicated it is before I go around seeking a source of WVO? Im in contact with takeaways through my job, so I probably have a good chance of success.

    Im in the market for a second hand car and Id love to have an early 2000's Land Rover Discovery. I used to have a 93 200 a few years ago which although a complete shed, I loved until someone stole it and burned it out! Ive yearned after one everytime I pass one on the road, but the crippling fuel costs have prevented me from seriously considering it. I think making biodiesel would be a fantastic way to be able to afford to run it, and also learn something that Ive never done before. Ive always been into computers, so getting my hands dirty will be great! Have you heard anything about the 300s/TD5 (2000-2004) running on biodiesel? Reliability, modifications etc?
    HiCRM Ireland I would just like to let you know there are a lot of us now in the world of biodiesel I am now one of the small home brewers in Ireland and if there is one man that can point you in the right direction it's imakebiodiesel he also builds processors so if it's a starting point your looking for its there I made the mistake of buying a processer from the uk and then I got know support what so ever if it wasn't for imakebiodiesel I would have given up long ago thats just my tuppence worth anyway and I wish you the very best of luck with it, the satisfaction is well worth the frustration


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭stocking


    hi all,
    is there any chance somebody might let 'imakebiodiesel' know that I'm trying to get in touch with him. I pm'ed already but no luck. alternatively, maybe there is somebody around Dublin willing to show how it's made, etc.
    I'm very interested to see the process/get involved in trying.
    thanks in advance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2 Bizziebee


    Hi Stockling not Sure if This Helps but I believe that Imakebiodiesel is In the USA at the Moment, as for getting more information if you go to http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ this is the Bible for beginners everything you need to know is contained on this forum its where i educated myself and am still learning every day since :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭stocking


    Bizziebee wrote: »
    Hi Stockling not Sure if This Helps but I believe that Imakebiodiesel is In the USA at the Moment, as for getting more information if you go to http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ this is the Bible for beginners everything you need to know is contained on this forum its where i educated myself and am still learning every day since :)

    thanks a million for you help. I know that forum allright. I'm more about getting to talk to somebody who is already involved. imakebiodisel used to run demos and he also sold equipment etc. I wonder if anybody else does the same....

    thanks anyway.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 350 ✭✭CRM Ireland


    stocking wrote: »
    thanks a million for you help. I know that forum allright. I'm more about getting to talk to somebody who is already involved. imakebiodisel used to run demos and he also sold equipment etc. I wonder if anybody else does the same....

    thanks anyway.

    Youre in the exact same boat as myself. I was looking at someone to guide me in person and quite probably someone who could sell me the equipment too.

    I was talking to a couple of takeaways whilst working today and I "just happened" to mention my interest in making biodiesel. I was trying to suss out if I would be able to take the oil from them instead of the current company who lifts it for them. I didnt outright ask, but it seemed very clear I could take it so long as I ensured Id take it ALL the time and not leave them with a stockpile mounting up.

    Id like to make sure that I have a good chance of success before I offer to collect it, because I dont want to let them down and also blow an opportunity of a good source.

    Is there anyone in Louth or thereabouts? Im in Clogherhead (near Drogheda) but Im travelling all over Monaghan/Cavan/Louth during working hours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    Hello guys, as someone mentioned earlier I have been away in the US and havnt posted for a while. The reason for the US trip was my son had entered a science competition here in Waterford. His project won first prize which was an all expenses trip to Pittsburgh to compete at Isef, a world wide competition for young innovators. We went to New York for a week first to get him over the jet lag and to enjoy the sights.
    His project is Polydiesel, a novel solution to fuel shortages and disposal of waste plastics. He has built, with some help from me, a reactor that pyrolyses 1 kg of dirty, mixed waste plastic into 970 ml of liquid fuel. The fuel consists of 60% diesel, 30 % kerosene and 10% petrol. We have separated the diesel fraction and run my Skoda car on it. It runs very smoothly and when tested on the NCT smoke tester is cleaner burning than regular diesel.
    We are currently constructing a larger reactor to produce about 50 litres of polydiesel per batch.
    The Isef competition was amazing. 1500 smart young people and their brilliant ideas.. To be honest I thought we had little chance but he won a second prize in his category.
    Back home and down to earth, Im still making biodiesel every week and am happy to help anyone who wants to get started. Because of the rules of this forum I cant give my phone number or address but Im sure you can find me on other forums specifically about biodiesel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,716 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Hello guys, as someone mentioned earlier I have been away in the US and havnt posted for a while. The reason for the US trip was my son had entered a science competition here in Waterford. His project won first prize which was an all expenses trip to Pittsburgh to compete at Isef, a world wide competition for young innovators. We went to New York for a week first to get him over the jet lag and to enjoy the sights.
    His project is Polydiesel, a novel solution to fuel shortages and disposal of waste plastics. He has built, with some help from me, a reactor that pyrolyses 1 kg of dirty, mixed waste plastic into 970 ml of liquid fuel. The fuel consists of 60% diesel, 30 % kerosene and 10% petrol. We have separated the diesel fraction and run my Skoda car on it. It runs very smoothly and when tested on the NCT smoke tester is cleaner burning than regular diesel.
    We are currently constructing a larger reactor to produce about 50 litres of polydiesel per batch.
    The Isef competition was amazing. 1500 smart young people and their brilliant ideas.. To be honest I thought we had little chance but he won a second prize in his category.
    Back home and down to earth, Im still making biodiesel every week and am happy to help anyone who wants to get started. Because of the rules of this forum I cant give my phone number or address but Im sure you can find me on other forums specifically about biodiesel.
    Congratulations to your young man!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    hello all,
    Did you mention in a previous post that this is already an industrial process in Ireland? Why is the world not doing this already to reduce the vast amount of waste plastic out there?

    regards
    Stovepipe


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  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭imakebiodiesel


    This is being done on an industrial scale in Ireland Germany and Japan. Cynar PLC, an Irish company has a plant in Portlaoise processes 60 tons of waste plastic from Bord na mona and Portlaoise County council. They process it into diesel which they sell in bulk to fleet owners. They are currently building similar plants in the UK and Canada.
    The technology is not new but what has changed is the viability. High fuel prices combined with rapidly rising land fill costs have made this process financially attractive.
    What makes our process different is the small scale. Up until now pyrolizing plants have been massive industrial units. Our unit is scaled to household or small business needs. We use a cheap disposable catalyst which is replaced for every batch. If you want to follow our progress we have set up a website explaining the process and the project. Im not allowed to post a website address here but if you pm me Ill send you the address.


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