Are we really much more better of than Egypt?

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2011 10:20PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

ok, after taking on board peoples views towards showing the current/prospective government the people want ACTUAL CHANGE and looking at the biggest actions/reactions taken against anything in the past year or two I can't help but be embarrassed that the Egyptions can get together without access to internets or phones!!

trying to do anything positive here for the greater good is lost on the internet

They're together only in that they want Mubarak to step down. That's the only thing they're united on. The worrying is what will happen if/when Mubarak steps down. In an ideal world Egypt would smoothly transition in to peaceful and democratic elections. However, that is not guaranteed. In fact, it's becoming more and more unlikely as each day passes and as the chaos on the streets increases. A power void would pave the way for an Islamic revolution in Egypt much like Iran.

For those unaware of the repercussions of that let me give you an example. They will destroy the Egypt-Israel peace treaty and they will repress the people of Egypt even more than the Mubarak regime. Another thing that people seem to be overlooking is the fact that Egypt is home to the antiquities of ancient Egypt. You may ask what this has to do with extremist Islamism. Islamists, particularly the extreme of them view the statues and all that relates to ancient Egyptians as being idols towards false gods (Or the 'jin' as they put it). As unfathomable as it may seem to all of you they may well destroy the many antiquities of ancient Egypt in the name of Islam. It's not an impossibility, Islamic rulers of Egypt in the past pillaged and destroyed many ancient Egyptian temples and ancient Coptic churches and around the 12th Century one ruler called Sultan Al Aziz even tried to destroy the great pyramids of Giza. Thankfully, he failed.
Basically, what i'm trying to say is that this revolution, if even successful, may not necessarily end well for the people of Egypt.

NeedaNewName · 31-01-2011 10:34PM

mloc wrote: »

Stupid Irish people being stupid.

What is the point of 500,000 people "protesting" on the streets at the moment? It's just a vague attempt at venting; people with no ideas and nothing positive to bring, getting violent and damaging our country along with disrupting the lives of those trying to get on with it.

I don't buy the "there's no point in voting, it won't change anything" bull. 500,000 people voting could change anything; the kind of people who protest without bringing real alternatives to the table are just too lazy or stupid to mobilize a democratic change.

Don't be so ignorant as to compare our situation to Egypt, where there has been no democracy for the last 21 years. We have had a working democracy, and we have used it. Lazy voting, caring too much about Pat who fixes potholes in the constituency and blissfully smiling our stupid heads off through a period of false, artificial wealth is what has led us to where we are.

Another good reason to vote SF.

mloc · 31-01-2011 10:42PM

NeedaNewName wrote: »

Another good reason to vote SF.

Ha, you're funny.

ilovesleep · 31-01-2011 11:00PM

Whoopdedoo

All i want to do is protest. I would protest about anything. Unfortunately the irish are horribly lazy who actually enjoy rolling around in such abuse.

The best protest is cheat whatever system you can - tax, social welfare. shop up north for groceries, shop in secondhand clothes shops when you need clothing to avoid pay vat. walk whereever possible to avoid paying tax on fuel. (bum a lift up north for your shopping). Dont buy cigarettes - buy cannabis instead and other such things. Get one over on the taxpayer - they love abuse of their wages.

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2011 11:06PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Whoopdedoo

All i want to do is protest. I would protest about anything. Unfortunately the irish are horribly lazy who actually enjoy rolling around in such abuse.

The best protest is cheat whatever system you can - tax, social welfare. shop up north for groceries, shop in secondhand clothes shops when you need clothing to avoid pay vat. walk whereever possible to avoid paying tax on fuel. (bum a lift up north for your shopping). Dont buy cigarettes - buy cannabis instead and other such things. Get one over on the taxpayer - they love abuse of their wages.

You do realise doing that will only exacerbate our problems, right? The people in Egypt have a reason to protest. We have none. We have a system that allows anyone the right to rule so long as they have support. With a system like that and with elections in 3 weeks, I see no reason for a protest.

Lumen · 31-01-2011 11:12PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

The best protest is cheat whatever system you can - tax, social welfare. shop up north for groceries, shop in secondhand clothes shops when you need clothing to avoid pay vat. walk whereever possible to avoid paying tax on fuel. (bum a lift up north for your shopping). Dont buy cigarettes - buy cannabis instead and other such things. Get one over on the taxpayer - they love abuse of their wages.

Are you seriously equating walking to buy clothes from a charity shop with illegal tax avoidance, welfare fraud and drug dealing?

Perhaps my irony meter is borked.

ilovesleep · 31-01-2011 11:15PM

Partyatmygaff

we have all the reasons in the world to protest. The ex PM of iceland was charged with criminal negligence in the running of their country. We are allowing all of ours to walk free. There isnt a hope in hell im going to cooperate in this country until i see people locked up for what they have done.

AnonoBoy · 31-01-2011 11:17PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

Partyatmygaff

we have all the reasons in the world to protest. The ex PM of iceland was charged with criminal negligence in the running of their country. We are allowing all of ours to walk free.

You're not protesting though. You're just committing fraud.

Alessandra · 31-01-2011 11:18PM

We probably have a higher emigration rate than them now. Our national debt is sky high. Both countries have little to offer their young people.They live in an autocratic society. I'd say the balance is 50/50

partyatmygaff · 31-01-2011 11:22PM

Alessandra wrote: »

We probably have a higher emigration rate than them now. Our national debt is sky high. Both countries have little to offer their young people.They live in an autocratic society. I'd say the balance is 50/50

50/50?

Really? If you started speaking out against the government would you expect members of the special branch to come kidnap you from your home and torture and beat you? You really don't know how good it is over here in Ireland until you've lived or seen what it's like in other countries.

Fight_Night · 31-01-2011 11:23PM

Alessandra wrote: »

We probably have a higher emigration rate than them now. Our national debt is sky high. Both countries have little to offer their young people.They live in an autocratic society. I'd say the balance is 50/50

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/not_sure_if_srs.jpg

Lumen · 31-01-2011 11:24PM

Alessandra wrote: »

We probably have a higher emigration rate than them now. Our national debt is sky high. Both countries have little to offer their young people.They live in an autocratic society. I'd say the balance is 50/50

Egypt GDP per capita $5,500 (PPP) (2008 est.)
Ireland GDP per capita $37,700 (2009 est.)[3]

Ireland has plenty to offer it's young people. It's a great country, and I'm proud to have been granted the opportunity to raise my children here.

Debthree · 01-02-2011 12:27AM

Lumen wrote: »

Ireland has plenty to offer it's young people. It's a great country, and I'm proud to have been granted the opportunity to raise my children here.

Ah go on out of that Mrs Cowen.

whoopdedoo · 01-02-2011 12:46AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

50/50?

Really? If you started speaking out against the government would you expect members of the special branch to come kidnap you from your home and torture and beat you? You really don't know how good it is over here in Ireland until you've lived or seen what it's like in other countries.

I'd say special branch etc would be on the case here very fast if we did start pushing our weight around here though!!

as another poster rightly pointed out there are politicians and business people walking free and continuing to be rewarded for landing us in this fine mess and he next crowd will swan in and keep it all rolling along nicely unless they see the people are really serious about change.

did you all see the fcuking news this evening?? nothing is changing and nothing will flippin change either!

full blown riots on the streets is way too long overdue here and that's a FACT

they're all way to comfy to change a thing, why should they with the way we continue to take it day in day, each day they push us a little further and we do...

partyatmygaff · 01-02-2011 12:58AM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I'd say special branch etc would be on the case here very fast if we did start pushing our weight around here though!!

Lol, so you really think the special branch take care of people who speak out against the government? This isn't China ffs.

whoopdedoo · 01-02-2011 01:08AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Lol, so you really think the special branch take care of people who speak out against the government? This isn't China ffs.

no I reckon they'd be on the case if we did start demanding action actually!

day in day out for weeks, months and years we've been hearing all about the abuses of power in this country and we're continuing to take it.

what is it going to take for a bit of civil unrest to show our seriousness??

partyatmygaff · 01-02-2011 01:32AM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

no I reckon they'd be on the case if we did start demanding action actually!

So what would they do exactly? Knock on your front door and say "Ah now lads, less of that there rioting, you'll have someone's eye out with them stones" and a slap on the wrist?

Murderers over here hardly get 10 years of prison. In Egypt you can be jailed indefinitely for little to no reason at all other than speaking out against the government or Islam.

Again, a sense of perspective is needed.

whoopdedoo · 01-02-2011 01:43AM

partyatmygaff wrote: »

So what would they do exactly? Knock on your front door and say "Ah now lads, less of that there rioting, you'll have someone's eye out with them stones" and a slap on the wrist?

Murderers over here hardly get 10 years of prison. In Egypt you can be jailed indefinitely for little to no reason at all other than speaking out against the government or Islam.

Again, a sense of perspective is needed.

it would be up to certain division of our Garda force to try diffuse any major civil unrest, intelligence gathering etc so it's hardly a loony call to think if it was put up to those in power they'd put their employees to good use to dampen the movement.

what planet do you live on seriously?

are you not annoyed wtb what they're getting away with?

this general election is only a farce

open your eyes to the way these people control the system ffs

Lumen · 01-02-2011 07:28AM

Debthree wrote: »

Ah go on out of that Mrs Cowen.

Seeing what they've done to the country is all the more painful when you're fully committed to staying here. :mad:

maninasia · 01-02-2011 09:35AM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

i'm forced to leave 2 kids behind and emigrate! would you deny me the right to vote before I leave too or am I just not allowed get rightfully angry at the system in place here?!?

There haven't been mass layoffs for large groups of protected workers and social welfare has hardly changed. So large sections of the population are not too inclined to protest against a system that works for them. It's quite a material selfish society at heart even though it's covered up in a veneer of socialism. I don't know any other way to think of it because it accepts that young people should emigrate (and not so young) without hardly a peep.

whoopdedoo · 01-02-2011 12:43PM

I'll take a guess that if full blown rioting doesn't happen innthe next few weeks hopefully it will happen shortly after it becomes clear that the new regime haven't a notion of making real change.

there is a lot of anger going around right now, might have taken a while to surface for some but it's slowly stewing away nicely!

when it does kick off those Internet warriors might have no other choice but to get up out of their chairs if he internets gets switched off here too!

god damn it it's time to shake the nerves of all our politicians/business/bankers/horsey peoples and show them we are the majority and we matter ffs!!!

thanks for all the support in the thread everyone, we'll get our chance to show what we're made of

DoesNotCompute · 01-02-2011 01:03PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I'll take a guess that if full blown rioting doesn't happen innthe next few weeks hopefully it will happen shortly after it becomes clear that the new regime haven't a notion of making real change.

there is a lot of anger going around right now, might have taken a while to surface for some but it's slowly stewing away nicely!

when it does kick off those Internet warriors might have no other choice but to get up out of their chairs if he internets gets switched off here too!

god damn it it's time to shake the nerves of all our politicians/business/bankers/horsey peoples and show them we are the majority and we matter ffs!!!

thanks for all the support in the thread everyone, we'll get our chance to show what we're made of

You're living in a fantasy world, my friend. People are far too apathetic in Ireland to start protesting, never mind rioting or attempting to overthrow the government (apart from fringe elements).

We are nowhere near as bad as Egypt; as people have already pointed out on this thread - they have been living under an autocratic dictatorship for the last 30 years, whereby any criticism of the regime would be met by severe punishment, torture, and/or imprisonment. Freedom of speech is severly curtailed. Here in Ireland, we have democracy, and a (relatively) unbiaised and free press.

And we're nowhere near the level of the internet being shut down here in Ireland. That would never happen here.

Cop on and wake up to reality. You don't realise how good you have it.

Father Damo · 01-02-2011 02:18PM

adrian280582 wrote: »

It's only matter of time before a TD in this country will get really hurt.

Only so much **** people can take

I fcuking LOLD.

Why dont go you and murder the god knows how many late 30s to middle aged people in your locality who caused this mess rather than politicans who were more negligent than anything? Look out for people with 3 jeeps in the driveway of their corpo house. Or the local warehouse donkey who always had a tan from his trips to his loaned up Bulgarian and Spanish holiday homes.

Jesus H Christ- anyone who thinks the current crisis is all to do with the government and nothing to do with the people shouyld be sectioned. Im truly fcuking sick of this sh1te. Egypt was ruined by a greedy elite- Ireland was ruined by a working class who thought they had more to spend than they actually did.

Lumen · 01-02-2011 02:24PM

Father Damo wrote: »

Jesus H Christ- anyone who thinks the current crisis is all to do with the government and nothing to do with the people shouyld be sectioned. Im truly fcuking sick of this sh1te. Egypt was ruined by a greedy elite- Ireland was ruined by a working class who thought they had more to spend than they actually did.

And I'm truly fcuking sick of ^^this sh1te.

Fight?

Father Damo · 01-02-2011 02:30PM

Lumen wrote: »

And I'm truly fcuking sick of ^^this sh1te.

Fight?

FFS. Maybe instead of listening to lads down the pub you should actually step beyond "that Brian Cowens a fookin eejit" stuff. Rulers of dictatorship steal huge amounts from their people- Fianna Fail are more like the negligent parents whos kid ends up in the childrens court because they never disciplined them.

Yakult · 01-02-2011 02:35PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

you're welcome to your negativity and I apologise for wanting to actually make a mark before I go!

Go blow up some building, will definally leave a mark.

OctavarIan · 01-02-2011 02:47PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I'll take a guess that if full blown rioting doesn't happen innthe next few weeks hopefully it will happen shortly after it becomes clear that the new regime haven't a notion of making real change.

Rioting against what? We have a general election coming up, you get to vote who goes into power. Rioting won't accomplish anything. Meathead thinking like that is the last thing we need.

whoopdedoo wrote:

there is a lot of anger going around right now, might have taken a while to surface for some but it's slowly stewing away nicely!

Pretty much any country you go to you'll find a portion of the population that are angry at the government.

whoopdedoo wrote:

when it does kick off those Internet warriors might have no other choice but to get up out of their chairs if he internets gets switched off here too!

Impossible to 'switch off' the internet here. Our infrastructure wouldn't allow it, plus afaik there's no legislation that gives the government power to do it.

whoopdedoo wrote:

god damn it it's time to shake the nerves of all our politicians/business/bankers/horsey peoples and show them we are the majority and we matter ffs!!!

Yeah, wreck their ****, that'll make them care. After all, when scumbags egg your car it makes you think they matter and are important doesn't it?

whoopdedoo wrote:

thanks for all the support in the thread everyone, we'll get our chance to show what we're made of

Yeah, in the election.

[edit] Also I'd like to add that the thread title is one of the most naive things I've read so far this year.

lcrcboy · 01-02-2011 02:49PM

I agree with the op I think its time some thing is done in this country, we need radical change. I think a new goverment needs to be formed with new political parties being set up and put into power. But this is Ireland and I doubt there will be much change and the same crap will happen 30 to 50 years down the road :mad:

listermint · 01-02-2011 02:52PM

whoopdedoo wrote: »

yes I know there are horrible instances of torture etc but as regards corruption in politics goes they've had 30 years of it and now won't leave the streets til it's sorted out once and for all!

more power to them I say!! there was a guy on the news just there who said he'd been out protesting for 3 days and will stay til he dies if he has to. here in Ireland we manage some lone nutter on a 3 day hunger strike outside the dail only to return home for a nice hot meal on the 4th day, WTF!!!

on a day when we see Ivor "the snake" Callely awarded €17,000 for a 20 day suspension we're treated to the return of Willie "dodgy dicky" O' Dea back in government and the appointment of 14 token noobs to government for 3/4 weeks.

THE CORRUPTION HERE IN IRELAND IS CONTINUING LIKE IT HAS FOR OVER 30 YEARS AND WE'RE STILL NOT RISING TO DEFEAT IT!!

why don't we walk like an Egyption and take back the power from the bastards in "control"?

These type of threads make my head sore and baby jesus cry.

eblistic · 01-02-2011 03:02PM

Our situation is far more complicated than the pure autocracy the Egyptians are rising against. It has been generations of voters who have given us the mob we have to choose from now (they also gave us the system). Are you going to riot against them? Good luck with that.

Why not run for election instead? Sounds like you're the kind of sober, level-headed person we need at the helm.

Are we really much more better of than Egypt?

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