DART+ (DART Expansion)

Kennedy35 wrote: »

Arrogance and stupidity together is what has brought this country to our current situation. You display both in abundance.

Kennedy35 wrote: »

Your opinions don't matter when you are clearly uneducated and uninformed with regard to the DART Underground Project. An infrastructure project that serves only to replicate underground what currently exists overground will benefit who? Your opinions only serve to demonstrate that you have no knowledge of the Railway Order, EIS and have not attended the Oral hearing.
To quote one opinion “people see large projects as free money”. It is an interesting observation in that it is most likely correct, when it pertains to the Contractors and Iarnrod Eireann. A point that could have been valid is unfortunately negated when it applied to a community. There is really only one response that can be made in this instance, to ignore your ignorant ranting. Perhaps if you educate yourselves, make a valid comment, it could be worthy of a response. Until then you are best ignored.

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Oh for god's sake, the Phoenix Park Tunnel is not equivalent to the DU in any way.

Jack Noble wrote: »

Most of the critics of Metro North either do not understand it is part of a wider NETWORK providing an INTEGRATED TRANSPORT SYSTEM for Dublin or simply refuse to accept this reality - and insist on viewing it as a single, standalone line. Few have even looked at either the MN route map or the wider network map for T21.

The same applies to Dart Underground to a lesser degree with people still insisting the Phoenix Park Tunnel and the Luas Red line do the same thing - connect Heuston and Connolly. And also to the various other Luas lines and Metro West. However, I would add that Metro North will be much less effective if DartU is not built as DartU is the spine of the entire system - without DartU, the rest of the lines simply cannot and will not fulfill their potential.

I am blue in the face trying to explain this to people - many of whom simply won't listen because they have made up there minds based on what they have heard in the pub or on the radio or in Kevn Myers column or from a taxi driver. There is an abundance of detailed information on all these projects on the internet and elsewhere in the public domain if people really want to understand how Metro, Dart and Luas will benefit Dublin for decades into the future. But I fear most people simly couldn't be bothered looking for it.



DWC

It was explained to me in the late-90s during the Luas debates that once CIE had become fixated with on-street ligh-rail as the best system for Dublin and had support from like-minded senior civil servants. This view became gospel because weak and/or disinterested politicians simply accepted it and would not question the thinking behind LRT. Those who did question the wisdom of LRT were simply dismissed and/or discredited. We are still paying a high price for all that today and will be for decades to come.

My own opinion is that if the original Dart plan had been resurrected in the mid-1990s and tweaked to give us the lines now in planning - Dart Underground (Docklands to Inchicore) and Metro North/Luas Green (Swords-Airport-City Centre-Bray along old Harcourt line) - there would have been less opposition and much more support for the plan. Also, at this stage, one would have hoped at least one would be operational and the other under construction. People are fixated on names without realising that essentially Metro and Dart do exactly the same thing - move people around the city very effectively and very efficiently. Only the silly politicking between CIE, govt and RPA gave us two systems with different gauges.

However, unfortunately we are where we are (I really, really hate that phrase), and Metro North and Dart Underground are the only game in town at this stage and we need to get behind them to ensure they are built as soon as possible given the current economic circumstances.

I would hope you would agree with me on that.

Jack Noble wrote: »

BrianD,

I'm at a loss as to what you are saying.

How is Metro "an orphan line" considering the level of integration with other existing and planned Luas, Metro and Dart lines? It will only be an orphan if the other lines are not built. As it stands today, no T21 project has been abandoned.

All are in various stages of planning - delayed yes, abandoned no - and all will be built as and when funding becomes available. The Railway Orders have or will have a 10-year life span (15 years in the case of Metro West) so the decisions to build will lie with the next three or even four governments.

Metro North and Dart Underground are separate projects by separate bodies - the result of bad decisions by govt - but together they and the Luas lines create a network which links all the main transport hubs, business, commercial, retail and government districts, tourism, leisure and entertainment sites, two sports stadia, two universities, several hospitals and countless residential areas - and the airport.

There is no need to get rid of the RPA. Leave it to provide Metro and Luas lines while CIE should proceed with Dart. The two systems will still provide an integrated network. And may I point out that of the two organisations, the RPA has been the more successful of the two, has delivered two Luas lines and extensions and is far advanced with Metro North while Metro West and Luas BXD are at the same stage as Dart Underground - with Railway Order applications before An Bord Pleanala.

Dart Underground has been delayed by CIE/IR inertia over the last decade and the decision to go back to the drawing board and completely redesign the original Interconnector project from the mid-1990s/early-2000s. That has allowed the govt to delay it further by omitting the "tunnel element" from the four-year budget planning to 2014.

And why is Metro North "a crock"?

What route would you suggest that takes in as many major trip generators and provides as much transport integration as Metro North does - Swords, Airport, Dardistown (Metro West) Ballymun, DCU, Drumcondra (Dart1), Mater, OCS (Luas Red and Green/BXD) and SSG (Dart2 and Luas Green)?

Where do you suggest it should run? Much of it mirrors the original 1975 DRRTS (Dart) route from city centre to Ballymun - it has been simply updated with more stops to take into account development and growth of the northside of the city in the last four decades. That is exactly what has also been done with Dart Underground on the southside, BTW.

Metro North will only fail to realise its potential only if Dart Underground is not built but when both are operational, both will be a success and will transform Dublin and the way people move around the city.