Should elocution lessons be mandatory in school?

12-01-2011 10:37PM

strobe wrote: »

That is like, sooooo true, like. Those people from lower socio economic backgrounds have like totally random grammar. Like, I was talking to Sorcha last Sashurdoy nish and we like totally both agreed that they should get elocution lessons so they wouldn't be like so totally talking random and stuff.

I always thought this manner of speaking was a complete exaggeration until one day on the bus: 'you're at x's house? that's so, like, random! haha!'

:mad:

Jaxxy · 12-01-2011 10:40PM

No.

Red Hand · 12-01-2011 10:45PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I always thought this manner of speaking was a complete exaggeration until one day on the bus: 'you're at x's house? that's so, like, random! haha!'
:mad:

But it was random. He/she could have been at YOUR house.

:pac:

12-01-2011 10:46PM

Jeremiah 16:1 wrote: »

But it was random. He/she could have been at YOUR house.

:pac:

I think that would have been more like coincidence considering I didn't know these people! :P

melekalikimaka · 12-01-2011 10:49PM

but how will we distinguish the rich from the poor, maybe we can sow stars into their clothes... to make them feel better...oh wait... maybe thats been tried before...

Red Hand · 12-01-2011 10:54PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think that would have been more like coincidence considering I didn't know these people! :P

No, technically, it would have been a random encounter, rather a coincidence.

The person that could have shown up at your house would have considered you to be a "randomer". The person (the "randomee") was however actually at this other person's house so your randomness never fulfilled it's potential.

However, you still exist as a potential randomer and in the future, may indeed fulfill your random role.

:pac:

Red Hand · 12-01-2011 10:55PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

but how will we distinguish the rich from the poor, maybe we can sow stars into their clothes... to make them feel better...oh wait... maybe thats been tried before...

Rhinestone cowboys?

/Neil Diamond

Saruman · 12-01-2011 11:08PM

My wife is a bigger grammar Nazi than me. She is always giving out about how Irish people can not use correct grammar.

One example is her boss, who was an English Major in college, can not get simple apostrophes right.

It seems Irish people (and I have seen this myself) have an inerrant need to an an apostrophe to everything ending in "s". Or that anything plural needs an apostrophe.

Example: Make sure your need's are met, It is a complete shamble's etc.

My pet hate is people who do not know the difference between where, were, ware or there, their, they're and so on. These are not typos, these are simply lack of basic grammar and spelling.

Anyway people are in fact taught grammar and elocution in school, or at least I was in school. That does not mean their normal speech will change though.

RichieC · 12-01-2011 11:28PM

What's the correct accent? D4? trinity speak? because it depends..

Saruman · 12-01-2011 11:30PM

RichieC wrote: »

What's the correct accent? D4? trinity speak? because it depends..

Mine, I mean Moine...

melekalikimaka · 12-01-2011 11:31PM

RichieC wrote: »

What's the correct accent? D4? trinity speak? because it depends..

to speak in an elocutionary manner is not an 'accent' thats a misconception by most here it is in fact emphasis on gesture, vocal production, and delivery.

Aigggghhhhhttttt

RichieC · 12-01-2011 11:33PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

to speak in an elocutionary manner is not an 'accent' thats a misconception by most here it is in fact emphasis on gesture, vocal production, and delivery.

Aigggghhhhhttttt

I've seen my fair lady...

fend · 12-01-2011 11:35PM

Should elocution lessons be manditory in school?

Abso****inglutley

The Waltzing Consumer · 12-01-2011 11:35PM

RichieC wrote: »

What's the correct accent? D4? trinity speak? because it depends..

The correct accent is all accents, all areas, all people. The incorrect accent is the lazy ignorant scumbag ape-like grunts that you will find in all accents, all areas, all people.

Saruman · 12-01-2011 11:38PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

To speak in an elocutionary manner is not an "accent" that's a misconception by most here. It is, in fact emphasis on gesture, vocal production, and delivery.

Aigggghhhhhttttt

In the spirit of the thread, I fixed that for you.

Time to duck and cover

Pal · 12-01-2011 11:42PM

Elocution is not a problem per se in Irish schools to my mind.
I see a lot of CVs where candidates struggle with simple English grammar and prose.

bobblepuzzle · 12-01-2011 11:45PM

I see so much drivel where I work, I can't stand spelling or punctuation mistakes! If I am sent an email for example with a lot of mistakes, I will ignore it... don't send me ****!

melekalikimaka · 12-01-2011 11:47PM

Saruman wrote: »

In the spirit of the thread, I fixed that for you.

Time to duck and cover

elocution is only in reference to public speaking, written grammatical errors would be another matter altogether

Wibbs · 12-01-2011 11:53PM

RichieC wrote: »

What's the correct accent? D4? trinity speak? because it depends..

Shíte no, not D4/Trinity speak. Those muppets actually suffered from an over abundance of elocution teachers in the 60's and 70's. This is why(like mentioned in another thread) they add aitches where they don't exist. They're so afraid(or their country/inner city folks were) of dropping aitches and appear "common", or god forbid raw culshie or inner city dub. So Height becomes HeightH and throat becomes throatH. Morons. The development of a dialect or accent is game ball, but not when it's that fcuked up.

Wibbs · 12-01-2011 11:54PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

elocution is only in reference to public speaking, written grammatical errors would be another matter altogether

+1. I like accents. I want to hear them. I want to hear the fossil record of a persons background come out in their voice. So long as some basic grammar is coming along for the ride. Laziness is not "culture".

Pal · 12-01-2011 11:56PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

elocution is only in reference to public speaking, written grammatical errors would be another matter altogether

If one can't speak properly, chances are pretty good that they can't write either. Or is it vice versa ?

Oops sorry about that. Your CV is in the bin.

melekalikimaka · 12-01-2011 11:57PM

Pal wrote: »

If one can't speak properly, chances are pretty good that they can't write either. Or is it vice versa ?

Oops sorry about that. Your CV is in the bin.

I would agree, I just needed to cover my ass to be honest... you ruined it...

Saruman · 12-01-2011 11:58PM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

elocution is only in reference to public speaking, written grammatical errors would be another matter altogether

Very true of course.

Planemo · 12-01-2011 11:59PM

I don't know where the poor grammar in this country comes from. When I was in primary school, (less than ten years ago) the Away With Words books were the bane of my existence. Having to rewrite 25 sentences for homework with apostrophes, proper use of your/you're was torture, but now it's ingrained in my mind forever. Now my english is proper gud ye?
As for speaking, I'm slightly biased as I'd have what many would class as a skobe accent, but I'd much prefer that to a "loike OMG RANDOM!" accent. (Or what my one of my mates calls 'an Oxegen accent')

Iwannahurl · 13-01-2011 12:02AM

stovelid wrote: »

I'd rather see electrocution phased in for pseudo-grammarians myself.

In three phases, presumably, for maximum impact?

melekalikimaka · 13-01-2011 12:03AM

Iwannahurl wrote: »

In three phrases, presumably, for maximum impact?

bah dum tish

Iwannahurl · 13-01-2011 12:07AM

Saruman wrote: »

It seems Irish people (and I have seen this myself) have an inerrant need to an an apostrophe to everything ending in "s". Or that anything plural needs an apostrophe.

Oops!

Holybejaysus · 13-01-2011 12:08AM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

but how will we distinguish the rich from the poor, maybe we can sow stars into their clothes... to make them feel better...oh wait... maybe thats been tried before...

I would think the tracksuits tucked into the socks, tacky jewellery, peaked caps on shaven heads, liberal wearing of pyjamas in the street, and general uncouth behaviour is more than enough to distinguish the great unwashed from your average civilized gentleman or lady.

Oh, and I arrest thee under Godwin's law.

As for the OP; Would it not be better to let the imbeciles remain so? If a peasant chooses ignorance willingly, so be it. Those who bother to educate themselves will move on to prosperity, whilst the lazy and ignorant fall into the gutter. It's really Darwinism in action, truth be told. Their own pride in ignorance will ensure they always have a low station in life.

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 13-01-2011 12:10AM

Nah fúck dah.

I'm happy wih me bogger accent, I cuhen't live widou hi'd!

Iwannahurl · 13-01-2011 12:19AM

melekalikimaka wrote: »

bah dum tish

Not.

When I was in primary school, back in the last millennium, some of my classmates used to go to what they called "ellycution".

AFAIK, grammar is not a major focus of ellycution classes, but I am open to correction on that. Elocution is about clear and expressive speech, especially pronunciation and articulation.

Grammar, punctuation and other essential features of good English ought to be part of the standard curriculum. To the best of my knowledge, formal grammar is no longer taught in schools. If true, that's a big mistake.

Should elocution lessons be mandatory in school?

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