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DTT Radio channels gone from Philips PFL8664H

13

Comments

  • #62
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Having done a smidge moe research it appears that this "iri" issue is entirely the fault of some slob in RTENL who misconfigured something at the head end.

    http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf

    page 19

    Language Code Code To native Comments
    English eng eng English Mandatory
    Finnish fin fin suomi Mandatory
    French fre fra francais Recommended
    Irish / Gaelic gle gle Gaeilge Mandatory

    That is different to the Nordig 2.0 document which allows 'iri' or 'gle'.

    Oh dear, we have conflict, we have conflict

    I wonder which takes precedent?:)

    No wonder the Philips boxes are confused, I am confused myself.


  • #63
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Having done yet a smidge more research and thanks as ever to The Cush we have a copy of Version 1 of the Saorview Minimum Requirements from 2008 .

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/10144/69523.pdf

    Irish is "gle" and that is that. See page 19 . Version one is what I linked earlier because it is still on the RTE site.

    http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf

    Now to confuse matters RTE released Version 2 of this minimum receiver requirement in November 2010

    http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/irish_dtt_%20receiver%20spec_public.pdf

    "Minimum Receiver Requirements for Free-to-Air Digital Terrestrial Television for Radio Telefis Éireann"

    It appears that IRI was invented as a language flag by RTE Themselves in this document. It would be wrong to attribute any of this idiocy to Nordig.. The spurious and incorrect language code appears in the 'clarifications' section meaning the bits unique to Ireland and not minimally common to all Nordig spec receivers and is on Page 24.

    The sooner they go back to GLE and ONLY GLE the better.

    Naturally the governments DigitalTelevision.ie site only has links to the Nordig Unified 2.0 doc and the Version 1 Irish minimum and has not caught up with the revised RTE spec at all or Nordig Unified 2.2 issued in August 2010. Very smart and green they are :(

    http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm


  • #64
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    :)

    Oddly This Site has links to the Documents as has RTE NL

    You can't "invent" your own flags. That's mental. :(


  • #65
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    watty wrote: »
    You can't "invent" your own flags. That's mental. :(

    I would say Grossly Mispurposed rather than invented.

    European 'branch' firmware is likely to throw all sorts of wobblies upon encountering an African continental stream flag that some genius in RTÉ nicked from the ISO 639-3 set.

    Were RTÉ stuck for a 'third' flag after eng and gle I would not encourage "Primitive Irish" or "pgl" seeing as none of us can read Ogham around here :cool: .

    RTE can even organise a request for a code just for themselves as you can see here.

    If they try to get their beloved "Dart" language mutation into the index I would advise them that DRT DOT and DOR are already assigned and therefore I would suggest they try DKY, it being a mnemonic for both Dalkey and Donkey RTÉ :D

    If in a hurry I point them at Manx Irish or "glv" seeing as there is no ISO 639-3 code for Ulster Scots.

    But IRI is simply unacceptable to my mind. It will create all sorts of problems with firmware.


  • #66
    P.lane78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 482 ✭✭P.lane78


    I know its holiday season and all , but did anyone get any more replies from RTENL or Philips on this issue. Is this the start of more surprises in the DTT rollout on non-certified MPEG4 equipment. :confused:


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  • #67
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    I published the SI streams for STB (and anyone else who had an interest) to have a look at, in case there was an issue with code settings, but, apart from a side diversion discussion into language code settings ("iri" versus the correct "gle" for the Irish language stations), nothing obvious has surfaced.


  • #68
    P.lane78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 482 ✭✭P.lane78


    Losing the radio stations I can live with .....since I have DAB but what I am worried about is what is coming down the line and will Philips support Ireland in any reasonable time scale.


  • #69
    blueflag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭blueflag


    No reply yet from RTENL. I asked if they had recently changed any broadcast settings on radio channels.


  • #70
    P.lane78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 482 ✭✭P.lane78


    Maybe we will hear something this week when things get back to normal


  • #71
    The Bull
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭The Bull


    I have a slightly older set with a Mpeg 2 Ditigal tuner. Had the channels tuned in there for a few months (tv had sound no picture)and then the last day I did a retune and all the tv chanels were gone, I had bought a mpeg4 CI module to stick in it but before i stuck it in the retune had eleminated the tv channels. Still have the 10 radio channels. I am faced towards Castlebar and have excellent result in the signal strength cat tuned in to channel 22 482000 kHz. The TV is a Philips 50PF7521D. Any help would be helpful. thanks in advance.


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  • #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Bull wrote: »
    I have a slightly older set with a Mpeg 2 Ditigal tuner. Had the channels tuned in there for a few months (tv had sound no picture)and then the last day I did a retune and all the tv chanels were gone, I had bought a mpeg4 CI module to stick in it but before i stuck it in the retune had eleminated the tv channels. Still have the 10 radio channels. I am faced towards Castlebar and have excellent result in the signal strength cat tuned in to channel 22 482000 kHz. The TV is a Philips 50PF7521D. Any help would be helpful. thanks in advance.

    RTENL now have the TV channels flagged in such a way that MPEG-2 receivers should ignore them. So CAMs are out - they can't receive RTÉ 2 in HD anyway so were never a viable solution.


  • #73
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Also they are poor quality and run too hot. May damage your TV
    http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/

    The CAM converter mimics a CAM, so can only re-encode channels the TV can actually tune.


  • #74
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    P.lane78 wrote: »
    Same story on my Philips 32PFL5604H/12. Everything worked fine on the UK setting. Like the rest of the posters the TV channels are fine but I lost the radio stations. When I changed back to Irish region setting all the radio stations are back but the EPG is missing and the channel and radio station names are gone (Presumably MHEG not set up in Firmware for Ireland)

    So from experience how prompt are Philips at getting updates out in the field.
    Hopefully well before the April launch

    P.lane78

    Apologies for slightly hijakcing this discussion but i have a Philips 32PFL5604H/12 for the last year and have just recently realised saoirview existed. I only have an ordinary TV aerial on the roof (no sat dish) and when i tried to see if i could connect to the irish digital stations (simply by re-scanning for stations) I got nothing extra to what was there already. I dont see a 'digital' setting just an analogue one. Could anyone direct me how to get the digital stations?? I'd really appreciate it :)


  • #75
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Firedance wrote: »
    Apologies for slightly hijakcing this discussion but i have a Philips 32PFL5604H/12 for the last year and have just recently realised saoirview existed. I only have an ordinary TV aerial on the roof (no sat dish) and when i tried to see if i could connect to the irish digital stations (simply by re-scanning for stations) I got nothing extra to what was there already. I dont see a 'digital' setting just an analogue one. Could anyone direct me how to get the digital stations?? I'd really appreciate it :)

    RTFM
    http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/3/32pfl5604h_12/32pfl5604h_12_dfu_eng.pdf

    Pages 32 and 33.


  • #76
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Thanks STB, I should have double checked that number before posting... we actually have a 42PFL3604/12 and i'd looked at the instructions online. I can call philips and see what they say but I think we'll probably have to purhcase a freeview box separately


  • #77
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Firedance wrote: »
    Thanks STB, I should have double checked that number before posting... we actually have a 42PFL3604/12 and i'd looked at the instructions online. I can call philips and see what they say but I think we'll probably have to purhcase a freeview box separately

    Yes that range does not have the requisite MPEG4 to tune in DTT/Saorview. The range ending in H do.

    A "Freeview Box" is no good. A "freeview HD" or dvb-t2 box will work fine. Or a Saorview branded box. Plenty of threads here on them.


  • #78
    blueflag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭blueflag


    RTENL say no technical adjustments have been made to DTT transmissions and that all radio services are operating normally. Therefore if Philips have done nothing and RTENL have done nothing why the loss of DTT radio channels??


  • #79
    benmeade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭benmeade


    I have the philips 7 series and it wont tune the radio in uk mode but will in Ireland mode.
    However my friend has an 8 series philips and he has still got the radio channels but i would say he will lose them if he were to ever retune!
    I bet it was rtenl that changed something


  • #80
    mickeyboymel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭mickeyboymel


    It is obvious something has changed on RTENL's side, but it just goes to further the cause that Philips do actually need to write software for all the PFL H Variant sets in order to enable the MHEG 5 when set to Ireland mode - simple, problem solved


  • #81
    Fingleberries
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Fingleberries


    mickeyboymel wrote: »
    It is obvious something has changed on RTENL's side, but it just goes to further the cause that Philips do actually need to write software for all the PFL H Variant sets in order to enable the MHEG 5 when set to Ireland mode - simple, problem solved
    I've been in touch with Philips support and they are 'looking into this at head office' (See: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69925167&postcount=99)


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  • #82
    paddybudg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 ✭paddybudg


    Hi, ive got a Philips 32PFL5604H/12 and set up as I am in the UK. From time to time ive had the radio channels get lost BUT (and i cant remember the location here in work) if you go into favorites ( i believe) you should see all digital channels listed and you shoule be able to re-add them. The tv does pick them up but for some reason when you hit guide they can get lost sometimes? No idea why but ive never had any issues in manually adding them again. I havent had to do it often but all is fine for me! Ill check when i get home this evening and post details ...

    Actually reading the manual posted earlier in this tread, i believe its around the "preferred channels". When in the EPG, press the options button and the EPG options will appear. Then select the Preferred Channels and this should let you set the preferred EPG channels.

    I hope this helps.


  • #83
    mickeyboymel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭mickeyboymel


    This is not the issue people are referring to: Yes some of the models have in the past hid the radio channels in the EPG and yes what you mentioned is the correct procedure to display them in the EPG.

    The issue is when in UK mode, the sets only tune in 7 tv channels and no radio channels.


  • #84
    blueflag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭blueflag


    Thanks Fingleberries,
    Hope you have more luck with Philips than I`ve had. They generally seem not to take issues raised in ROI as seriously as they should. They have issued firmware for many problems in a string of other EU countries but shy away from even giving a long-term commitment to addressing ones here. They are creating a very bad image for themselves in relation to customer service and once the word gets round it certainly won`t do sales any good.


  • #85
    Fingleberries
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭Fingleberries


    blueflag wrote: »
    Thanks Fingleberries,
    Hope you have more luck with Philips than I`ve had. They generally seem not to take issues raised in ROI as seriously as they should. They have issued firmware for many problems in a string of other EU countries but shy away from even giving a long-term commitment to addressing ones here. They are creating a very bad image for themselves in relation to customer service and once the word gets round it certainly won`t do sales any good.
    We'll see how it goes - I gave them pretty much everything they need to see where the problem is and that a simple solution should be possible (an highlighted a number of firmware updates for the model to make changes to be certified for other territories).
    The latest firmware update for this model was mid-november 2010, so hopefully might yield results.
    Fingers crossed.


  • #86
    maxg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    mickeyboymel wrote: »
    This is not the issue people are referring to: Yes some of the models have in the past hid the radio channels in the EPG and yes what you mentioned is the correct procedure to display them in the EPG.

    The issue is when in UK mode, the sets only tune in 7 tv channels and no radio channels.

    I guess the software expect the radio channels in UK mode in the 700 range and not in the 200 range.


  • #87
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    maxg wrote: »
    I guess the software expect the radio channels in UK mode in the 700 range and not in the 200 range.

    My understanding is that the IRD sees the Original Network ID (0x2174 - Ireland) and maps it to the the country for logical channel decriptor.

    When the set is set to UK and scans, it is recognises the existence of a non GBR network identifier and places the tv channels in the 800s. That the LCN stores and see the TV channels but not the radio channels will no doubt remain a mystery.

    The fix for this is to enable MHEG5 engine usage in Ireland Country profile rather than useless MHP. Because these IDTVs have MHEG5 on board already it shouldnt be to much hassle to fix it via firmware update. It would be useful for the future if all manufacturers could stop profiling country as using MHP.


  • #88
    maxg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    The logical channel numbers (LCN) are defined in the NIT independently of the country. If the software developer decided to accept radio channel in UK mode only in the 7xx range where they have to be in the UK, the software ignore the irish radio channels in the 2xx LCN range.


  • #89
    blueflag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20 ✭blueflag


    If all dtt radio channels were appearing in the UK setting up to a week before Christmas, and suddenly disappeared without doing any rescan, then it would appear that something happened to cause certain Philips TV models not to recognise them. In the absence of Philips doing anything (which they havent) does this appear to throw the ball back into the broadcaster`s court?


  • #90
    maxg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭maxg


    I have only a NIT from April 2009 and at that time the LCN range for the irish radio channels was 9xx.
    I don't know at what time RTENL changed the LCN range from 9xx to 2xx for the radio channels.


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  • #91
    mickeyboymel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭mickeyboymel


    blueflag wrote: »
    If all dtt radio channels were appearing in the UK setting up to a week before Christmas, and suddenly disappeared without doing any rescan, then it would appear that something happened to cause certain Philips TV models not to recognise them. In the absence of Philips doing anything (which they havent) does this appear to throw the ball back into the broadcaster`s court?

    Of Course It Does!!


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