Why people don't clear the snow off their properties?

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 11:52AM #1

I'd like to say my word regarding freeze, snow and the whole winter thing as I had a little revelation this morning while walking to the city centre

Now, I've been living my whole life, up until 3 years ago, in a country of cold and very snowy winters but I have never ever walked on an actual ice! During winter, a normal thing for every person was to grab a shovel and clear the snow or ice off the pavement in front of a building. And if it was not doable from any reason, at least throw some sand or salt on it. Not because it was fun or because you could gain a 1000 points worth achievement at xbox live, but because, and this is simple - it helped clear the pavements, which as a result allowed people to walk

So now, since the Ireland became a snow country herself, it would be maybe a great idea if every private and business property owner, tenant or, if it's a block of flats/offices, a building caretaker, instead of just admiring the snowfall and bitch about not being able to get to work, grabbed a shovel and cleared this goddamn snow off the pavement in front of the building. Maybe then the whole country wouldn't be on a stand by and waiting for a miracle called 'spring'.

BTW: is there no law in place that requires property owners to be responsible for the pavements in front of them?

Min · 03-12-2010 11:58AM

I said that last winter, there was a ridiculous news report of these people in a housing estate in Dublin who were complaining about the ice and snow on the pavements.
They looked like they had nothing to do, too busy complaining and expecting someone else to clear a bit of ice.

reverenddave · 03-12-2010 12:03PM

and do what with the snow ????????????

put it on the road to refreeze over night
creating a massive iceberg for the lovely motorists to write off their cars into

zagmund · 03-12-2010 12:04PM

I've cleared the snow and ice off the path in front of my house regularly.

People who go on with this rubbish about "but then they can sue you if you don't do it properly" are just looking for an excuse not to clear.

Look at it this way - if they don't clear and someone falls outside their house will they just stand there smugly and say "well, I didn't do anything

so nobody can blame me" while the rest of the world will say "well, they didn't do anything :mad: to help reduce accidents so it's partly their fault."

z

wiblick · 03-12-2010 12:05PM

there is an underlying assumption that if we do clear our paths we are then liable for any accidents which might occur, if we don't do anything then it's not our fault.... I believe a statement was made last year by the government that householders are not liable if they do clear.

As to why we don't... I don't know. I haven't because I have no access to sand/grit to put on the path after I've cleared it and so I would be creating an ice-rink.

I thought maybe there would be definitive information on what to do from councils etc. this year, or you know maybe they would be prepped after what happened in January...

Cian92 · 03-12-2010 12:06PM

I wouldn't dare do it... Last Winter, they reckoned you could be held responsible if someone slipped on your cleared path. Better safe than sorry.

zagmund · 03-12-2010 12:09PM

"Better safe than sorry" - see my post above. Safe for you sitting in your living room looking at the people outside. Not necessarily safe for the people outside.

z

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:13PM

Cian92 wrote: »

I wouldn't dare do it... Last Winter, they reckoned you could be held responsible if someone slipped on your cleared path. Better safe than sorry.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time. Where's safe and where's sorry in this assumption?

mikemac · 03-12-2010 12:19PM

nacho66 wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long time... Morons do indeed rule this country

Hey, you can't blame the government on this one. Noel Dempsey was on the radio this week and explained very clearly you would not be liable if you cleared your footpath
And at the same time he explained what a person would have to prove if they wanted to sue you

Compo culture hasn't gone away and not everyone has public liability insurance.
A claim could ruin you

Blame the media who spread the stories on liability, the government only tried to clear it up

mymo · 03-12-2010 12:21PM

I have cleared infront of my house(in a small estate) 4 times so far, my idiot neighbour threw a bucket of hot water on the path between our houses "'cos there was some bits of snow left" now theres a sheet of ice by my gate that I can't clear.
There is no need to clear the whole path, I cleared a narrow bit down the middle about a foot wide(we have 9 inches and snowing again now), then swept any snow left away to the sides. If you only clear a strip you can pile snow up at the edges, no need to throw it on the road.

I have sadly overheard a woman nearby saying she'd have a great claim if she fell due to someone not clearing the footpath well enough, so I can see where people are coming from not clearing. There are people that would do that.

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:21PM

feelingstressed wrote: »

Hey, you can't blame the government on this one. Noel Dempsey was on the radio this week and explained very clearly you would not be liable if you cleared your footpath
And at the same time he explained what a person would have to prove if they wanted to sue you

Compo culture hasn't gone away and not everyone has public liability insurance.
A claim could ruin you

Blame the media who spread the stories on liability, the government only tried to clear it up

I actually removed that phrase about government just before you posted your reply. Felt It's actually not fair to put this on the government

wiblick · 03-12-2010 12:21PM

earlier in the week people who wanted to help in rural areas were being blocked because they hadn't undergone health & safety training in the correct way to spread grit:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1201/farmers.html

this has since been overturned:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1202/weather_grit.html

but an announcement beyond talk shows on radios would help in connection with educating people about what to do.

HellFireClub · 03-12-2010 12:22PM

I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone started up a politically correct and ridiculous thread such as this. What's wrong with a bit of snow on the ground outside your house??? I fail to see the big deal and why people should feel obliged to start shovelling snow from outside their house???

mikemac · 03-12-2010 12:27PM

Heard that story too wiblick

Farmers need to get the milk lorry to their property but it's not always possible with snow and ice

They have fertilizer spreaders and have offered to spread grit for free if the council will provide it.
But then the liability issue comes up

It went to the Attorney General last winter and was sorted out but even now,
some councils are sorting this, some are hesitating

Compo culture has people paralyzed with fear

redt0m · 03-12-2010 12:28PM

And to think that in countries like Germany, people are obliged to clear snow outside their homes/businesses...

af_thefragile · 03-12-2010 12:28PM

If I clear the snow off the front of my house, the ground will just end up freezing over and would be worse. Atleast the snow gives traction and stops you from sliding on it. Ice would be much more dangerous to walk on. Also there's the question of what do you do with the snow? Where would you put it??

Plazaman · 03-12-2010 12:31PM

If you're talking about clearing public footpaths outside you're house on roadside, technically this is Council property. But regardless, clearing it should be done as a matter of civic co-operation. If someone does slip and fall (a) how would they know who cleared it (unless they actually fall whilst you're doing it) (b) it's the council that would be sued not the homeowner (c) if the slip and fall on your driveway and have the cheek to sue, then some revenge tactics can be put into action, say you never invited them in and that they were trespassing when they fell.

(I see crime rates are down countrywide due to the cold weather)

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:31PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone started up a politically correct and ridiculous thread such as this. What's wrong with a bit of snow on the ground outside your house??? I fail to see the big deal and why people should feel obliged to start shovelling snow from outside their house???

What's ridiculous is that you "fail to see the big deal and why people should feel obliged to start shovelling snow from outside their house".

What's the purpose of this? Maybe to allow other people walk safely? Allow them to get to work? School? Goddamn grocery?

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:34PM

af_thefragile wrote: »

If I clear the snow off the front of my house, the ground will just end up freezing over and would be worse. Atleast the snow gives traction and stops you from sliding on it. Ice would be much more dangerous to walk on. Also there's the question of what do you do with the snow? Where would you put it??

Traction? Have you actually walked in high populated areas like centre of the city? There's no traction mate... there's a bump-shaped layer of ice!

I really cannot believe one can use such an excuse

Highly Salami · 03-12-2010 12:34PM

Plazaman wrote: »

(I see crime rates are down countrywide due to the cold weather)

yep, its easier to track people in the snow.

d'Oracle · 03-12-2010 12:37PM

nacho66 wrote: »

BTW: is there no law in place that requires property owners to be responsible for the pavements in front of them?

Not yet.
There is in Germany.

I hope Ollie isn't reading.

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:39PM

1) you clear a 1 meter wide path on the pavement
2) you put the snow aside the path
3) you put some sand or gravel on it so it's not slippery

Is this that difficult?

kkontour · 03-12-2010 12:39PM

nacho66 wrote: »

Traction? Have you actually walked in high populated areas like centre of the city? There's no traction mate... there's a bump-shaped layer of ice!

I really cannot believe one can use such an excuse

I guess it would depend on where you live so.
Where I live is less populated and the footpaths are only slippy where people have cleared off the snow leaving a thin layer of slippery ice beneath.

af_thefragile · 03-12-2010 12:39PM

nacho66 wrote: »

Traction? Have you actually walked in high populated areas like centre of the city? There's no traction mate... there's a bump-shaped layer of ice!

I really cannot believe one can use such an excuse

Not outside my house.
There like 4 inches of fluffy snow over 2-3 inches of compacted snow. Much better to walk on than on frozen, icy ground.
You won't slide on snow...

I'll wait till the snow becomes icy and a skating rig before I consider clearing it...

mikemac · 03-12-2010 12:40PM

I read a post elsewhere on boards on some 1899 law that means shop owners in Ireland have to clear outside their shop.

Some do, most don't from what I've seen

HellFireClub · 03-12-2010 12:40PM

nacho66 wrote: »

What's ridiculous is that you "fail to see the big deal and why people should feel obliged to start shovelling snow from outside their house".

What's the purpose of this? Maybe to allow other people walk safely? Allow them to get to work? School? Goddamn grocery?

What's the point when it's probably going to snow again on what you've shovelled up??? Complete waste of time... What p*sses me off most about this country in the last few years is this thing were people feel that we have to legislate for absolutely every eventuality nowadays. All people in this country seem to want to do these days is spend their time looking over their neighbours wall and finger wagging and complaining.

We don't get snow that often, let's try to enjoy the change of scenery without feeling the need to dream up a completely new set of stupid politically correct norms and ridiculous whims and then creating angst by trying to hold our neighbour to a new little mini code of conduct for a snow event.

d'Oracle · 03-12-2010 12:42PM

feelingstressed wrote: »

Blame the media who spread the stories on liability, the government only tried to clear it up

WHAT?

NO. Blame the litigious mongrels who sue for bloody everything.
Blame the successive half assed governments who have done nothing to prevent frivolous and unfair litigation in general. Allowing the Compo culture to thrive and Insurance costs to sky rocket, driving up the cost of living for all.

nacho66 · 03-12-2010 12:43PM

d'Oracle wrote: »

Not yet.
There is in Germany.

I hope Ollie isn't reading.

In Poland as well

redman · 03-12-2010 12:44PM

Cleared snow earlier in the week and path got dangerously slippy the following morning ....so no more clearing in front of my house unless I can get a bone dry pathway that won't freeze.

Walking an elderly neighbour also recently I saw how dangerous these cleared areas are and she was praying people would leave the snow to give her a chance not to slip!

Poochie05 · 03-12-2010 12:44PM

Well all the shopkeepers are out in Wexford town this morning clearing ice and gritting. Having said that you can see where some people cleared their patch yesterday and these are lethal this morning you'd need to be on 24 hr call to keep up with it. I

Maj Malfunction · 03-12-2010 12:45PM

Much easier to walk on concrete that is ice and snow free. Its not that difficult to clear a walkway on a foot path, nor will it be slippy if you spend 5-10 minutes of your day to clear it.

You are not liable if someone falls on the footpath outside your house. Point aside, the claimant would have to prove you cleared it in the first place.

So get your shovel out if you want to go to work!

Why people don't clear the snow off their properties?

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