Why people don't clear the snow off their properties?

metrovelvet

Stinicker wrote: »

I ran the boiler at full whack until the tank was bubbling then connected my garden hose and melted snow and ice off all my footpaths and driveway with it. Then I took my coarse brush and brushed the water and icy debris out of the way, leaving a dryish surface. I then salted the heck out of it with Lidl's finest cheap table salt, about half an hours work and it was no big deal costing under €5 in salt and kerosene to heat the water. I don't see the big deal and haven't had a bit of trouble the last few days with it as I had no new snowfall.




In Germany they take snow in their stride and I was there in March and got some real heavy showers of late snow. The german salters were out at 6am and salted the whole place and cleared the snow. The hotel staff where I was staying were clearing the driveway and salting and I helped them for a few minutes clear behind my rental car and they made easy work of it. They got several inches yet the Autobahn was open and I took to it with my rental car complete with Winter tyres and was soon cruising at 200km/h in conditions that cause Armageddon in this country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGYiiuVRays

That is a great idea with the hose and the brush and then putting the salt down.

In the NE US where Im from the salters are out at 5 or six am, and so are the plows, unless you are getting 6 feet or more life goes on. And people generally do clear their paths as a matter of course.

My path was cleared but I had to abandon my car today and I FORGOT THE DAMN SHOVEL in the car! :mad:

rubadub

irish1967 wrote: »

Just ventured to the shop on foot ( 0.5 miles away) and i was grand until I got to a row of terraced house where some had cleared and some hadn't... those that were cleared were deadly. :mad:

I found a similar situation on my road, cleared paths were usually no better and sometimes worse, I walk on the grass areas when the path has ice, these grass areas usually have uncompacted snow. The problem was on the cleared paths people had dumped all the snow onto the grass area and it was frozen solid in big clumps, like a load of rocks.

Somebody mentioned hot water saying it did clear it, others say not to as it forms ice. I wonder if there is a method for using water, if you dump just a small bit if is going to freeze, but if you got a hose on it for a good while I imagine it would be heating the ground (heating above zero, tap water is usually ~8-9C in winter). I expect the ground may hold the cold underneath so it might refreeze, but I also wonder if there would be a method to dry it when still wet, like sweep it away and then lay down old sacks or towels to dry it up. Might experiment in my back garden.

d'Oracle

The footpath outside mine is alright now, not nearly as dangerous as the 4 inch thick Ice sheets..
The top of my steps though, where I didn't really sweep as well is a potential death trap.

Diddler1977

HellFireClub wrote: »

What's the point when it's probably going to snow again on what you've shovelled up??? .

Shovel it again when it snows. And shovel it again when it snows. Or are you too lazy to clear the pavement to make it safe for others to walk on? Think of someone else other then yourself.

Think of elderly people who may slip and hurt themself.

metrovelvet

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Shovel it again when it snows. And shovel it again when it snows. Or are you too lazy to clear the pavement to make it safe for others to walk on? Think of someone else other then yourself.

Think of elderly people who may slip and hurt themself.

Also think of the mailman and the binmen who will be out of pocket because they broke something slipping on your path and couldnt get to work, no food on the table for the family and no pressies from Santa and a whole heck of a lot of pain.

Stinicker

rubadub wrote: »

Somebody mentioned hot water saying it did clear it, others say not to as it forms ice. I wonder if there is a method for using water, if you dump just a small bit if is going to freeze, but if you got a hose on it for a good while I imagine it would be heating the ground (heating above zero, tap water is usually ~8-9C in winter). I expect the ground may hold the cold underneath so it might refreeze, but I also wonder if there would be a method to dry it when still wet, like sweep it away and then lay down old sacks or towels to dry it up. Might experiment in my back garden.

I used hot water from the hot tap so it was probably somewhere like 65 to 70C at a guess. Once the ice was melting and loosened I scraped and brushed away the loose bits and brushed it all off.

I then used more hot water to melt any residual ice under neat until I had raw concrete exposed. Once I had all my concrete exposed I brushed it all off with the coarse brush until there was no surface water left to re-freeze. I then powdered the place well with salt to prevent any more freezing.

Using cold tap water will only lead to a skating rink as it will not have sufficient heat to melt the ice and will leave residue behind.

maxxie

because its nacho property

scotchy

The main reason I haven’t cleared the snow from outside my house.

During last years freeze a number of houses on my road suffered frozen pipes and were without water for over a week. Germany, Poland, North America and all these other countries where people clear their paths, have been coping with low temperatures for years, and have the water supplies to their houses at a suitable depth that they will not freeze during cold weather. Not all Irish houses do.
Snow and ice actually gives an extra insulating effect to the ground and can form a barrier to frost.



.

Diddler1977

All of the people who have cleaned the path outside of their house have just been thanked on the 9pm news tonight.

kwinabeeste

Walked a fair bit today in Dublin, around Ballsbridge and in some estates in the Killester area. The paths that were cleared were a lot more slippy than the thick icy parts.

Is it that as others have said you need to put salt on it as well and keep doing it? Something most people mite not be able to do due to work.

flanzer

peasant wrote: »

The trick is not to wait until the stuff has compacted/frozen, but to clear snow directly after it has fallen. You wouldn't even need a shovel then, in most cases a strong broom would do.

This of course means that you have to be vigilant and might have to do it several times a day ...getting up early and all that ...and we surely couldn't expect people to do that, could we?

I found this out today. Spent nearly 2 hours today clearing up the driveway and path. My arms are in bits now. Some of the compacted ice was 3 inches thick.

Diddler1977

flanzer wrote: »

I found this out today. Spent nearly 2 hours today clearing up the driveway and path. My arms are in bits now. Some of the compacted ice was 3 inches thick.

Hope you salted afterwards!

obliviousgrudge

If you want to walk outside my gaffe, take the risk or clear it yourself because Im not clearing it just to please you.

Diddler1977

emmetmcl wrote: »

If you want to walk outside my gaffe, take the risk or clear it yourself because Im not clearing it just to please you.

What about clearing it to prevent an elderly falling an injuring themselves?

obliviousgrudge

Diddler1977 wrote: »

What about clearing it to prevent an elderly falling an injuring themselves?

Well there is very few people who walk on my road, and if they do in this weather, well, its their own fault.

Diddler1977

emmetmcl wrote: »

Well there is very few people who walk on my road, and if they do in this weather, well, its their own fault.

Nice attitude!

123balltv

emmetmcl wrote: »

Well there is very few people who walk on my road, and if they do in this weather, well, its their own fault.

A lot of old people have no family
maybe they never had Children or nearly all their family now are dead they have to go the shops or hospitals etc

obliviousgrudge

Diddler1977 wrote: »

Nice attitude!

Someone gets my point!

dav3

And just in case anybody has missed this...

http://www.transport.ie/feature.aspx?id=46

Clearing of footpaths by householders and volunteers
The advice received from the Office of the Attorney General is that liability does not arise for snow that is cleared in a safe manner on footpaths or in front of premises. In relation to people gritting or salting their own roads with salt or grit supplied by the local authorities, the legal advice is that the issue of liability does not arise where the material is delivered, stored and used in a safe manner and does not cause hazard.

Goodshape

seamus wrote: »

Where does someone living in the city get their hands on sand or gravel within walking/carrying distance? I'm not in the city centre, the nearest place I could conceivably get sand is 2 miles away and my car is snowed in. I'm not carrying 5kg of sand 2 miles home, just to clear some snow. Like Mike says, I'll leave the snow there until it becomes ice at which point I'll take a hammer and a shovel and clear it out.

This.

There are a few houses that have cleared a path in front along our street and without putting down sand, salt or grit --the sentiment is great but it just becomes iced over. I find it much safer to walk on the crunchy snow than the invisible smooth layer of ice on the cleared section.

Without access to sand or grit myself, I'll wait until, or if, it becomes ice.

whiteandlight

Isn't table salt slightly different to rock salt and erodes metal eg under cars? Or is that an urban legend?

seamus

dav3 wrote: »

And just in case anybody has missed this...

http://www.transport.ie/feature.aspx?id=46

liability does not arise for snow that is cleared in a safe manner on footpaths or in front of premises.

*sigh*
So still no clearer then on the issue of liability. If it's cleared in a safe manner it will not be slippy. If it's slippy, then that logically concludes that it's not been cleared in a safe manner and the person who cleared it is liable.

The actual question they need to answer is: "If I clear the snow/ice from the path and someone subsequently falls on that path, am I liable?".

They haven't answered that question, and the tort law behind this (misfeasance) indicates that in fact I am liable in such a case.

I imagine there would be a great deal of defence though if more than a few hours have passed between clearing the path and the fall taking place. I can clear the path safely today, but I cannot be liable for what occurs overnight to make that path dangerous.

ednwireland

seamus wrote: »

*sigh*
So still no clearer then on the issue of liability. If it's cleared in a safe manner it will not be slippy. If it's slippy, then that logically concludes that it's not been cleared in a safe manner and the person who cleared it is liable.

The actual question they need to answer is: "If I clear the snow/ice from the path and someone subsequently falls on that path, am I liable?".

They haven't answered that question, and the tort law behind this (misfeasance) indicates that in fact I am liable in such a case.

I imagine there would be a great deal of defence though if more than a few hours have passed between clearing the path and the fall taking place. I can clear the path safely today, but I cannot be liable for what occurs overnight to make that path dangerous.

+1 exactly the AG's advice makes no difference as if you leave something and someone slips you are liable

d'Oracle

Goodshape wrote: »

This.

There are a few houses that have cleared a path in front along our street and without putting down sand, salt or grit --the sentiment is great but it just becomes iced over. I find it much safer to walk on the crunchy snow than the invisible smooth layer of ice on the cleared section.

Without access to sand or grit myself, I'll wait until, or if, it becomes ice.

I would like to highlight here that the footpath which I cleared on Friday night is STILL not iced over.
No grit or salt was used.

seamus

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would like to highlight here that the footpath which I cleared on Friday night is STILL not iced over.
No grit or salt was used.

Icing over requires liquid water to have been present at some point. Our steps were cleared on Friday and were very slippy that night, but then exposed to intense sunlight on Saturday, the ice melted and the steps dried out, and they've been safe since. It's actually been too cold for ice - ice typically occurs when there's a partial thaw during the day (temps up to 4 or 5c) and then a freeze overnight. Temps have been barely dipping above freezing during the day so most of what's on the ground is remaining as snow or loose ice.
This is also why the roads (and heavily used paths) are lethal at the moment as the cars are melting the ice/snow on the road surface, which then freezes at night.

listermint

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would like to highlight here that the footpath which I cleared on Friday night is STILL not iced over.
No grit or salt was used.

Its simple, Dig up the ice in square sections, Pile it up at a pillar/wall. Then sweep the remainder of the ground.

Ice will not occur after.

Elmo5

I cleared mine yesterday and used a bag of dishwasher salt on it.

Dishwasher salt is coarser than normal table salt and more like the salt that the council would use for the roads apparently. Anyway it worked!

A few people walk on our road so better to try and keep people safe.

Galway K9

Min wrote: »

I said that last winter, there was a ridiculous news report of these people in a housing estate in Dublin who were complaining about the ice and snow on the pavements.
They looked like they had nothing to do, too busy complaining and expecting someone else to clear a bit of ice.

I heard in Galway City Council that they got a phone call from a tenant in housing estate complaining of leaves falling into her garden?

This begs belief!

Goodshape

d'Oracle wrote: »

I would like to highlight here that the footpath which I cleared on Friday night is STILL not iced over.
No grit or salt was used.

Made a point of comparing the snow covered with cleared sections on my street today . Tbh, neither were all that slippy.

listermint

Goodshape wrote: »

Made a point of comparing the snow covered with cleared sections on my street today . Tbh, neither were all that slippy.

TBH its not the snow covered thats the problem, its the compacted ice covered :rolleyes: