Is An Taisce killing rural Ireland

FF and proud · 02-12-2010 11:45AM #1

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My nephew wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

Cuddlesworth · 02-12-2010 11:51AM

They want them to move to localised high density housing instead of once off houses extending the overstretched utilities in this country.

racso1975 · 02-12-2010 11:54AM

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong

anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

tommyhaas · 02-12-2010 11:56AM

Probably a Dubliners fault. An Taisce and RTE are in it together, its an anti-rural living campaign

squod · 02-12-2010 11:57AM

FF and proud wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My nephew wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

FF and proud, you should know better! One brown envelope full of cash and the problem goes away.

Pompey Magnus · 02-12-2010 11:58AM

Great thinking, this country is suffering from a severe lack of houses...somebody get Poland on the line, I think its time we get a-building.

LK_Dave · 02-12-2010 11:59AM

one of the first quangos that should get the chop

Sykk · 02-12-2010 12:01PM

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

Dublin forums are that way >> Perhaps it's you that should GTFO.

racso1975 · 02-12-2010 12:05PM

Sykk wrote: »

Dublin forums are that way >> Perhaps it's you that should GTFO.

Its sarcasm:rolleyes:. The way after hours always has the dublin v rest of country argument.

If the op actually wanted a constructive argument after hours was not the way to go

markpb · 02-12-2010 12:07PM

An Taisce cannot veto planning permission. They can object to the local authority or to An Board Pleanala just like everyone else. They do not get the final say.

Have you looked at the planning permission files to see why planned was rejected?

Chips Lovell · 02-12-2010 12:12PM

LK_Dave wrote: »

one of the first quangos that should get the chop

It's not a state organisation.

Sykk · 02-12-2010 12:12PM

racso1975 wrote: »

Its sarcasm:rolleyes:. The way after hours always has the dublin v rest of country argument.

If the op actually wanted a constructive argument after hours was not the way to go

My sarcasm > Yours. That would be an ecuminical matter.

the flananator · 02-12-2010 12:15PM

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

How dare you be so dismissive of this good rural man and his honest-to-God rural problems. This is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from a so-called Dublin city slicker, you probably live in some sort of West Dublin ghettoland, selling heroin to kids and such like. Shameful.

knird evol · 02-12-2010 12:18PM

Which rural ireland

Bosco boy · 02-12-2010 12:19PM

el tonto wrote: »

It's not a state organisation.

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

Iwannahurl · 02-12-2010 12:24PM

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

Subtle sarcasm at that -- took me a few seconds to work that one out.

Is FF and proud (as a personal principle) not Ireland's #1 oxymoron these days?

An Taisce is a favourite target (of FF in particular) when it comes to special pleading in support on one-off housing.

So here's what independent experts at the Irish Planning Institute have to say:

Press Release 12/2/10

ONE-OFF HOUSING IN THE COUNTRY STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM

Too many one-off houses are still being built in the countryside even though new guidelines on sustainable rural housing were introduced in 2005, according to Mr Gerry Sheeran, President of the Irish Planning Institute (IPI).

He added: “There has been no decline in the rate of construction one-off houses since these guidelines were introduced and, in fact, in 2009, there were 12,000 individual houses completed and only 9,000 houses constructed within residential developments.”

Mr Sheeran highlighted the negative effects of the proliferation of one-off houses as:

• Undermining the vibrancy of rural towns and villages by siphoning residential development away from them into the countryside
• Causing serious environmental impacts on rural areas both visually and on our groundwater and biodiversity
• Costing the State three times as much to service rural housing as housing in villages, towns and cities
• It is unsustainable in terms of the generation of traffic and its carbon footprint

marco_polo · 02-12-2010 12:24PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

I thought it was not state funded? It is an environmental and heritage Non Governmental Organisation.

EDIT 2: It used to be but this was ceased some years ago.

Dionysus · 02-12-2010 12:27PM

Anybody listen to Matt Cooper's interview with TG4's Manchán Magan last week?

It was hilarious. Apparently Manchán came back from years meditating up in the Himalayas and decided to build a house in Castlepollard. He looked around the area and said to himself 'Loads of straw here; let's build the first straw bale house in Ireland". So he did (pictures in above link). That was 1997. Fast forward to 2002 and Manchán was getting a bit cold and uncertain in the windy winter nights so applied to Westmeath County Council for permission to knock the existing building and replace it with a more permanent building. Westmeath CC had no objection.

But in came An Taisce to stop everything saying that Manchán's straw bale house was an example of "early Irish ecological architecture". Brilliant.

Iwannahurl · 02-12-2010 12:31PM

I'm saying no more.

I think FF and Proud would be too good at winding me up for his/her/its own amusement...

Son Of A Vidic · 02-12-2010 12:55PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They want them to move to localised high density housing instead of once off houses extending the overstretched utilities in this country.

The amount of empty or virtually empty ghost estates/developments built near small towns/villages = hundreds.

The amount of empty newly built single house builds, built in rural areas = 0

mikemac · 02-12-2010 12:59PM

A group of busy bodies who object to everything and anything and often don't even live in the areas they claim to protect

Cuddlesworth · 02-12-2010 01:14PM

medicman2009 wrote: »

The amount of empty or virtually empty ghost estates/developments built near small towns/villages = hundreds.

The amount of empty newly built single house builds, built in rural areas = 0

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds.

Nobody want to live in a housing estate when there is open land around for miles, but its subsidised heavily by the state. And since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

Ostrom · 02-12-2010 01:27PM

Bosco boy wrote: »

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

They receive a very low state grant, nothing that would threaten their stability if revoked

I suggest a Michael Collins style burning sod of turf on a slash hook for a true taste of nature

Son Of A Vidic · 02-12-2010 01:41PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds. [/QUOTE

Well it's never going to reach zero, so that will be a long wait. It has, will and always shall be cheaper to build your own home as opposed to being 'shafted'.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

...since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over
GREED!

Cuddlesworth · 02-12-2010 01:49PM

medicman2009 wrote: »

Well it's never going to reach zero, so that will be a long wait. It has, will and always shall be cheaper to build your own home as opposed to being 'shafted'.

It would if our parish pump planning authorities denied them instead of continuing to allow them through.

medicman2009 wrote: »

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over
GREED!

Ahh, the anti EU rhetoric. Good to know the good of the country being destroyed by the selfish can be blamed on the EU. Who subsidised small farmers since our introduction to the EU removing the obvious movement towards huge land holdings across the mindlands. Ones which would have put all the smaller farms in the regions you described out of business.

syklops · 02-12-2010 01:51PM

The state of planning in Ireland is an absolute and utter disaster. Between An Bord Pleanala and An Taisce, they have and are ruining the country side.

It's not one off housing thats doing that.

There is a long thread in the infrastructure forum documenting the 'evils' of one off housing, and some of the ideas put forward are ludicrous. One guy said that there are roads that can not be built in parts of the country because there are one off houses in the way. A situation like that is not the fault of the house builder, its the fault of the planning department. Thats the sort of the they should be looking for when a person submits a planning application. The distance from the bottom of the stairs to the kitchen door, and the height of the kitchen windows is not what they should be concerned with.

Its also amazing how many house and bungalow applications are rejected by the planning department or objected to by An Taisce, resulting in "Rejected: Not in keeping with the landscape of the area", and across the road a 20-house estate gets approved, which no-one wants to live in.

marzic · 02-12-2010 01:56PM

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over

GREED!

Who sold the land to the developers? The farmers! Made millionaires out of thousands of them thanks to their councillor buddies zoning it!

If it was only a case of people wanting to build on family land, that would be understandable but theres been more sites sold to townies wanting to move out of town. See any town in this country, a string of houses out every road for miles past the speed limit signs.

An Taisce are a bunch of wan*ers sticking their oar in everywhere and having no constructive contribution to make, but the countryside is absolutely peppered with houses. And its down to 'site farmers'!

jdivision · 02-12-2010 01:57PM

medicman2009 wrote: »

It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over
GREED!

Precisely. Farmers getting land rezoned and selling it to developers was GREED. Farmers getting "emotional" payments from the NRA for letting them buy their land off them - GREED.

Now, why should the rest of us pay for people to live in one off housing - increased postal, utility plus other charges - while there's hundreds of thousands of empty units out there.

Oh and then there was the locals only regulations - which didn't apply when the house was sold on. A lot of farmers and their families made a nice few quid off that one too.

Son Of A Vidic · 02-12-2010 02:51PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

..Ahh, the anti EU rhetoric. Good to know the good of the country being destroyed by the selfish can be blamed on the EU.

Selfish indeed, Senior Bondholders (German/French banks) lend recklessly to smaller similarly minded reckless Irish banks during fake 'boom'. EU/ECB tighten noose after enslaving sovereignty of the nation and sentence us to a generation of debt. Bad me for not liking the EU!

jdivision wrote: »

Precisely. Farmers getting land rezoned and selling it to developers was GREED.

It's not selling the land that was the problem, it's was the mini-Ballymum's that developers squeezed onto the land. Trying to cram as many houses on to it as possible.

jdivision wrote: »

Now, why should the rest of us pay for people to live in one off housing - increased postal, utility plus other charges

Can you explain? If a postman drives from A to B everyday and a new house is built along the route. Can you tell me where's the cost is coming from? Since the postman is driving past that point anyway everyday, how is this going to cost anything! Similarly with utilities, there's an ESB/Telecom line running along the road, the owner pays a fortune to get connected despite the line being just outside their property. Do you think we're living in Australia? Or there's no established infrastructure already in place?:rolleyes:

jdivision wrote: »

... while there's hundreds of thousands of empty units out there.

Developers buy an acre, or two, or three of land. Fling up sh1t standard housing for a population that doesn't exist and never will. So you think people should be forced to live in these 'settlements' because of this? Sieg you!!

FF and proud · 02-12-2010 06:34PM

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds.

Nobody want to live in a housing estate when there is open land around for miles, but its subsidised heavily by the state. And since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

No justification, sure what about them people who have been living there for 3, 4, 5 or even 10 generations?

ScumLord · 02-12-2010 06:42PM

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.

It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

Is An Taisce killing rural Ireland

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