Is An Taisce killing rural Ireland

FF and proud

ScumLord wrote: »

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

Made to live within town border? Be jany theyd love you in Stalins Russia, how could you justify such a thing as that? We live in a democracy after all, and that includes where we can live.

Cuddlesworth

FF and proud wrote: »

No justification, sure what about them people who have been living there for 3, 4, 5 or even 10 generations?

Ahh sure, go on them. We all seem to love a good sob story in Ireland. It would be horrific if any new family had to move to a house in a village twenty minutes away.

ScumLord

FF and proud wrote: »

Made to live within town border? Be jany theyd love you in Stalins Russia, how could you justify such a thing as that? We live in a democracy after all, and that includes where we can live.

That's the way it is in many European counties, you can't build a house in the middle of nowhere in the UK it has to be within a townland. There's nothing communist about it. It is the democratic thing to do because it's in the best interests of the people at large to do things that way.

steddyeddy

FF and proud wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My Father wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

Right this country can get by without giving anymore planning permission. You talk about taisce wanting kill rural ireland by denying planning permission they are preserving rural ireland. From your post I asssume your part of a farming tradition and your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island? Planning permission given in excess was one of the reasons the economy is bust and innocent people are suffereing as a result of that.

People refused an extension on their house or who are refused planning permission on their land are not in the worst situation possible. Why not sell the land and move into a new house with the money earned from that?

fontanalis

Isn't one off monstrosities (that people won't be afford to heat let alone repay) more of an issue than one of houses (normal ones)?

steddyeddy

the flananator wrote: »

How dare you be so dismissive of this good rural man and his honest-to-God rural problems. This is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from a so-called Dublin city slicker, you probably live in some sort of West Dublin ghettoland, selling heroin to kids and such like. Shameful.

honest rural to god problems?? sure there are problems in rural ireland but not in the case the op presented. Not being able to build an extension isnt a problem or build on land that you were gifted.

Maybe people are dismissive because these problems are absurd compared to people who can barely pay off a mortgage or afford to build in the first place!

mikemac

steddyeddy wrote: »

your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island?

This brother is working on the family farm
The quote:

the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter

What's the issue with a farmer trying to get permission to build on the land they work? He's going to be getting up during the night for lambing or calving. And 5am starts for silage season. Earlier then 5am actually. Waking up people in an estate with his coming and going

This isn't some holiday home or second home for the weekends for people from a city.

This lads new neighbours are going to love him when he starts parking the tractor in the estate!

Sticky_Fingers

steddyeddy wrote: »

You talk about taisce wanting kill rural ireland by denying planning permission they are preserving rural ireland.

So we should keep the countryside in a big glass case and just admire it from a respectful distance as opposed to say living in it?

steddyeddy wrote: »

From your post I asssume your part of a farming tradition and your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island?

Yep because those crappily built cookie cutter houses located in ghost estates are exactly where you want to live as opposed to beside your family and friends in a house you designed yourself. Sure they have all the joys of country living but you get that inner city charm as the empty houses around you slowly rot and fall derelict, awesome.

steddyeddy wrote: »

People refused an extension on their house or who are refused planning permission on their land are not in the worst situation possible. Why not sell the land and move into a new house with the money earned from that?

I'm sure people are more then happy to buy land that has no use other then agricultural, if your lucky you may even get 5k an acre. Imagine the palace you could buy in the big city with that type of doss in your pocket.

mfceiling

Listen..........if the government want you to move to high density housing schemes then do as you are told.
I don't care if your elderly parents live in the country and you want to build near them on their land......this should not be your choice.
Remember do as the government tell you - it's not a democracy we live in.

The countryside should be nothing but fields and animals roaming free.......no houses, no farms, hell no roads even.

But how will people be able to farm and work the land for the food we need...........tesco



:rolleyes:

steddyeddy

feelingstressed wrote: »

This brother is working on the family farm
The quote:


What's the issue with a farmer trying to get permission to build on the land they work? He's going to be getting up during the night for lambing or calving. And 5am starts for silage season. Earlier then 5am actually. Waking up people in an estate with his coming and going

This isn't some holiday home or second home for the weekends for people from a city.

This lads new neighbours are going to love him when he starts parking the tractor in the estate!

man im not saying its ideal but honestly if you think this is a real housing problem take a tour around inner city dublin.

in this case building the brothers house may be ok but its defintaly abused by a fair amount of land owners both urban and rural.

steddyeddy

mfceiling wrote: »

Listen..........if the government want you to move to high density housing schemes then do as you are told.
I don't care if your elderly parents live in the country and you want to build near them on their land......this should not be your choice.
Remember do as the government tell you - it's not a democracy we live in.

The countryside should be nothing but fields and animals roaming free.......no houses, no farms, hell no roads even.

But how will people be able to farm and work the land for the food we need...........tesco



:rolleyes:

whos doing that, we have 300,000 spare houses in ireland

steddyeddy

So we should keep the countryside in a big glass case and just admire it from a respectful distance as opposed to say living in it?

Because there are no people living in it now? were not talking about everyday people but farmers building for family, its not a major problem compared to the problems of most in this country.

Yep because those crappily built cookie cutter houses located in ghost estates are exactly where you want to live as opposed to beside your family and friends in a house you designed yourself. Sure they have all the joys of country living but you get that inner city charm as the empty houses around you slowly rot and fall derelict, awesome.

ah well as I said take a walk around inner ciy dublin and come back to me with a real problem. Tell a person living on the top floor of dolphin house that its a real problem having to live a few miles away from family and see what happens.

I'm sure people are more then happy to buy land that has no use other then agricultural, if your lucky you may even get 5k an acre. Imagine the palace you could buy in the big city with that type of doss in your pocket.

Yes I agree, exactly why I think a lot of farmers (not all) should stop moaning

Sticky_Fingers

steddyeddy wrote: »

whos doing that, we have 300,000 spare houses in ireland

We have 300,000 urban houses built in rural Ireland, they are completely unsuitable for the location. If An Taisce want to do something useful I suggest they go hire a bulldozer and demolish these monstrosities (built for urban people who wanted the "charm" and illusion of country living) instead of picking on people who come from the area or actually want to live in the country.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

wow didnt realise Pol Pot had fans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
amazing

steddyeddy

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

We have 300,000 urban houses built in rural Ireland, they are completely unsuitable for the location. If An Taisce want to do something useful I suggest they go hire a bulldozer and demolish these monstrosities (built for urban people who wanted the "charm" and illusion of country living) instead of picking on people who come from the area or actually want to live in the country.

Agree but again I dont think farmers being able to build on land they dont have to pay for is the biggest problem in the country

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

That's the way it is in many European counties, you can't build a house in the middle of nowhere in the UK it has to be within a townland. There's nothing communist about it. It is the democratic thing to do because it's in the best interests of the people at large to do things that way.

You seem to be on the ball on this one, this country was gifted with an excess of planning permission. Most countries have stricter laws. corruption defiantly played a big part in the ease of planning permission in ireland.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

wow didnt realise Pol Pot had fans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
amazing

Because hes stating that other countires have more stringent planning permission laws hes a communist?

FF and proud

steddyeddy wrote: »

Because hes stating that other countires have more stringent planning permission laws hes a communist?

No its because he thinks he has the right to tell others where to live. This sort of thing is just not on at all.

steddyeddy

FF and proud wrote: »

No its because he thinks he has the right to tell others where to live. This sort of thing is just not on at all.

Would you object to familes buying land and building houses next to yours with minimul restrictions on planning permision?

Dyr

In all fairness, if we actually had the right to tell backwards mucksavages where they could live then the aran islands would have a higher population density than a f**king tern colony.

FF and proud

steddyeddy wrote: »

Would you object to familes buying land and building houses next to yours with minimul restrictions on planning permision?

Id have no problem with it, sure its their own business if they own the land. None of mine or anybody elses.

FF and proud

Bambi wrote: »

In all fairness, if we actually had the right to tell backwards mucksavages where they could live then the aran islands would have a higher population density than a f**king tern colony.

Shockin shockin stuff, sure youd never hear one of us saying that all them Dubs should be forced into 20 storey flats. And yet they do be thinking that theyve the right to tell us where to live. Feck sake, who do ye think ye are?

steddyeddy

FF and proud wrote: »

Id have no problem with it, sure its their own business if they own the land. None of mine or anybody elses.

so then you have no problem to the rural areas becoming more urbanised

syklops

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

I actually thought this was a joke at first. Unfortunately, it seems it is not. In my opinion, it is the planning authority that is at fault in many cases.


Why can't we deal with bad weather? Bad planning.
Why are our roads in such a mess? Bad planning.
Why have we no services? Corruption unions Bad planning.

mfceiling

steddyeddy wrote: »

whos doing that, we have 300,000 spare houses in ireland

And how many of these are in the country??
Most of them are in ghost estates in towns like longford, mullingar, mountrath etc...........seems the government and relevant state bodies didn't fully think that one through.......

Iwannahurl

FF and proud wrote: »

sure what about them people who have been living there for 3, 4, 5 or even 10 generations?

Hard to get planning permission for that kind of one-off residence these days.

http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/ross-castle-killarney-irl127.jpg

John_Rambo

I think some parts of rural Ireland needs to cop on.

The celtic tiger is over.

Less of the hideous one off piles and back to basics like close knit communities, looking out for each other instead of keeping up with the Jones, kids being able to walk to each others houses, buying affordable cars in stead of massive jeeps and not being able to afford the tax and tyres, dropping in to each other instead of jealously driving by, having neighbours instead of strangers up the road.

The celtic tiger had a massive impact on rural Ireland. Much bigger than the cities and to be honest, it's left a cold unwelcoming feeling.

starbelgrade

FF and proud wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My nephew wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

An Taisce aren't ruining rural Ireland.

One off housing isn't ruining rural Ireland either.

What's ruining Ireland full stop, is poor design & poor planning.

An Taisce are an organisation that are actually founded on good principles - protection of the natural environment, our vernacular buildings & environmental & sustainability issues. They are also campaigning to get more people involved in making submissions to their councils Development Plans, which is commendable as everyone has the right to do so, but a lot of people don't know about it but should.

In over 10 years of designing buildings, I've never had any objections from them. I design a lot of one off houses, but they are well designed in terms of renewable energy, sustainable building practices & materials and are sensitive to both the landscape & surroundings & use many traditional Irish building design elements along with modern ones.

Most one off housing is not designed like this - in fact most housing is not, full stop, which is a real shame.

It is a mistake to think - as other posters have said - that higher density developments help create communities. They don't. People do. If higher density developments created communities, then why do so many people who live in apartment blocks or housing estates not know most of their neighbours?

What can help create communities in what we build is infrastructure - like schools, parks, shops, social areas, public transport & public buildings etc. Whether these are built in areas of high density or lower ones, is largely irrelevant.

It's also a mistake to believe that one off houses cannot be sustainable or environmentally friendly. Some of the houses I have designed are completely self sufficient in terms of energy, water supply & waste disposal.

As I said, it's all about design. You can't simply decide that in principle one type of housing is better than another, because principle is quite often not the same as practice.

In building, as with most design, the devil is in the detail.

ScumLord

mfceiling wrote: »

Listen..........if the government want you to move to high density housing schemes then do as you are told.
I don't care if your elderly parents live in the country and you want to build near them on their land......this should not be your choice.
Remember do as the government tell you - it's not a democracy we live in.

The countryside should be nothing but fields and animals roaming free.......no houses, no farms, hell no roads even.

But how will people be able to farm and work the land for the food we need...........tesco


:rolleyes:

That's fair enough about living by their parents and wanting to take care of them in their old age. But houses dotted around the countryside is a problem because of the lifestyle people demand, people that lived in the countryside went without the benefits of town or city life but now demand broadband and phone lines, while their entitled to and need these things it's a simple structural nightmare providing them.

I'm not saying people should be forced to move but they seriously need to look at the situation their in and how much more complicated it's going to get if they keep going like their going.

I'm all for farming but it's time to rethink how it's done and reorganise the way we live and interact with our countryside.

syklops wrote: »

I actually thought this was a joke at first. Unfortunately, it seems it is not. In my opinion, it is the planning authority that is at fault in many cases.


Why can't we deal with bad weather? Bad planning.
Why are our roads in such a mess? Bad planning.
Why have we no services? Corruption unions Bad planning.

One off housing in the country is bad planing, it's the height of bad planing.

FF and proud

starbelgrade wrote: »

An Taisce aren't ruining rural Ireland.

One off housing isn't ruining rural Ireland either.

What's ruining Ireland full stop, is poor design & poor planning.

An Taisce are an organisation that are actually founded on good principles - protection of the natural environment, our vernacular buildings & environmental & sustainability issues. They are also campaigning to get more people involved in making submissions to their councils Development Plans, which is commendable as everyone has the right to do so, but a lot of people don't know about it but should.

In over 10 years of designing buildings, I've never had any objections from them. I design a lot of one off houses, but they are well designed in terms of renewable energy, sustainable building practices & materials and are sensitive to both the landscape & surroundings & use many traditional Irish building design elements along with modern ones.

Most one off housing is not designed like this - in fact most housing is not, full stop, which is a real shame.

It is a mistake to think - as other posters have said - that higher density developments help create communities. They don't. People do. If higher density developments created communities, then why do so many people who live in apartment blocks or housing estates not know most of their neighbours?

What can help create communities in what we build is infrastructure - like schools, parks, shops, social areas, public transport & public buildings etc. Whether these are built in areas of high density or lower ones, is largely irrelevant.

It's also a mistake to believe that one off houses cannot be sustainable or environmentally friendly. Some of the houses I have designed are completely self sufficient in terms of energy, water supply & waste disposal.

As I said, it's all about design. You can't simply decide that in principle one type of housing is better than another, because principle is quite often not the same as practice.

In building, as with most design, the devil is in the detail.

You know what something, you make a fair arugment there. If we took your logic we could keep both sides happy, and I suppose thats the way to go.