Is An Taisce killing rural Ireland

FF and proud

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My nephew wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

Cuddlesworth

They want them to move to localised high density housing instead of once off houses extending the overstretched utilities in this country.

racso1975

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

tommyhaas

Probably a Dubliners fault. An Taisce and RTE are in it together, its an anti-rural living campaign

squod

FF and proud wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My nephew wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

FF and proud, you should know better! One brown envelope full of cash and the problem goes away.

Pompey Magnus

Great thinking, this country is suffering from a severe lack of houses...somebody get Poland on the line, I think its time we get a-building.

LK_Dave

one of the first quangos that should get the chop

Sykk

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

Dublin forums are that way >> Perhaps it's you that should GTFO.

racso1975

Sykk wrote: »

Dublin forums are that way >> Perhaps it's you that should GTFO.

Its sarcasm:rolleyes:. The way after hours always has the dublin v rest of country argument.

If the op actually wanted a constructive argument after hours was not the way to go

markpb

An Taisce cannot veto planning permission. They can object to the local authority or to An Board Pleanala just like everyone else. They do not get the final say.

Have you looked at the planning permission files to see why planned was rejected?

Chips Lovell

LK_Dave wrote: »

one of the first quangos that should get the chop

It's not a state organisation.

Sykk

racso1975 wrote: »

Its sarcasm:rolleyes:. The way after hours always has the dublin v rest of country argument.

If the op actually wanted a constructive argument after hours was not the way to go

My sarcasm > Yours. That would be an ecuminical matter.

the flananator

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

How dare you be so dismissive of this good rural man and his honest-to-God rural problems. This is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from a so-called Dublin city slicker, you probably live in some sort of West Dublin ghettoland, selling heroin to kids and such like. Shameful.

knird evol

Which rural ireland

Bosco boy

el tonto wrote: »

It's not a state organisation.

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

Iwannahurl

racso1975 wrote: »

Did you spell brian cowen's title wrong
anyway this is not a dublin prob so gtfo

Subtle sarcasm at that -- took me a few seconds to work that one out.

Is FF and proud (as a personal principle) not Ireland's #1 oxymoron these days?

An Taisce is a favourite target (of FF in particular) when it comes to special pleading in support on one-off housing.

So here's what independent experts at the Irish Planning Institute have to say:

Press Release 12/2/10

ONE-OFF HOUSING IN THE COUNTRY STILL A MAJOR PROBLEM

Too many one-off houses are still being built in the countryside even though new guidelines on sustainable rural housing were introduced in 2005, according to Mr Gerry Sheeran, President of the Irish Planning Institute (IPI).

He added: “There has been no decline in the rate of construction one-off houses since these guidelines were introduced and, in fact, in 2009, there were 12,000 individual houses completed and only 9,000 houses constructed within residential developments.”

Mr Sheeran highlighted the negative effects of the proliferation of one-off houses as:

• Undermining the vibrancy of rural towns and villages by siphoning residential development away from them into the countryside
• Causing serious environmental impacts on rural areas both visually and on our groundwater and biodiversity
• Costing the State three times as much to service rural housing as housing in villages, towns and cities
• It is unsustainable in terms of the generation of traffic and its carbon footprint

marco_polo

Bosco boy wrote: »

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

I thought it was not state funded? It is an environmental and heritage Non Governmental Organisation.

EDIT 2: It used to be but this was ceased some years ago.

Dionysus

Anybody listen to Matt Cooper's interview with TG4's Manchán Magan last week?

It was hilarious. Apparently Manchán came back from years meditating up in the Himalayas and decided to build a house in Castlepollard. He looked around the area and said to himself 'Loads of straw here; let's build the first straw bale house in Ireland". So he did (pictures in above link). That was 1997. Fast forward to 2002 and Manchán was getting a bit cold and uncertain in the windy winter nights so applied to Westmeath County Council for permission to knock the existing building and replace it with a more permanent building. Westmeath CC had no objection.

But in came An Taisce to stop everything saying that Manchán's straw bale house was an example of "early Irish ecological architecture". Brilliant.

Iwannahurl

I'm saying no more.

I think FF and Proud would be too good at winding me up for his/her/its own amusement...

Son Of A Vidic

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They want them to move to localised high density housing instead of once off houses extending the overstretched utilities in this country.

The amount of empty or virtually empty ghost estates/developments built near small towns/villages = hundreds.


The amount of empty newly built single house builds, built in rural areas = 0

mikemac

A group of busy bodies who object to everything and anything and often don't even live in the areas they claim to protect

Cuddlesworth

medicman2009 wrote: »

The amount of empty or virtually empty ghost estates/developments built near small towns/villages = hundreds.


The amount of empty newly built single house builds, built in rural areas = 0

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds.

Nobody want to live in a housing estate when there is open land around for miles, but its subsidised heavily by the state. And since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

Ostrom

Bosco boy wrote: »

Its state funded, therefore its a quango!

They receive a very low state grant, nothing that would threaten their stability if revoked

I suggest a Michael Collins style burning sod of turf on a slash hook for a true taste of nature

Son Of A Vidic

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds. [/QUOTE

Well it's never going to reach zero, so that will be a long wait. It has, will and always shall be cheaper to build your own home as opposed to being 'shafted'.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

...since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over

---

GREED!

Cuddlesworth

medicman2009 wrote: »

Well it's never going to reach zero, so that will be a long wait. It has, will and always shall be cheaper to build your own home as opposed to being 'shafted'.

It would if our parish pump planning authorities denied them instead of continuing to allow them through.

medicman2009 wrote: »

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over

---

GREED!

Ahh, the anti EU rhetoric. Good to know the good of the country being destroyed by the selfish can be blamed on the EU. Who subsidised small farmers since our introduction to the EU removing the obvious movement towards huge land holdings across the mindlands. Ones which would have put all the smaller farms in the regions you described out of business.

syklops

The state of planning in Ireland is an absolute and utter disaster. Between An Bord Pleanala and An Taisce, they have and are ruining the country side.

It's not one off housing thats doing that.

There is a long thread in the infrastructure forum documenting the 'evils' of one off housing, and some of the ideas put forward are ludicrous. One guy said that there are roads that can not be built in parts of the country because there are one off houses in the way. A situation like that is not the fault of the house builder, its the fault of the planning department. Thats the sort of the they should be looking for when a person submits a planning application. The distance from the bottom of the stairs to the kitchen door, and the height of the kitchen windows is not what they should be concerned with.

Its also amazing how many house and bungalow applications are rejected by the planning department or objected to by An Taisce, resulting in "Rejected: Not in keeping with the landscape of the area", and across the road a 20-house estate gets approved, which no-one wants to live in.

marzic

The EU would love that alright, less farmers bigger farms. But land is and always will be sacred for most of the Irish. Topography plays a large factor also, large super farms might work in the Golden Vale, but not up around Donegal, Mayo or Leitrim ect. We all know why developers flung up ghost estates in the middle of nowhere now don't we? It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over

---

GREED!

Who sold the land to the developers? The farmers! Made millionaires out of thousands of them thanks to their councillor buddies zoning it!

If it was only a case of people wanting to build on family land, that would be understandable but theres been more sites sold to townies wanting to move out of town. See any town in this country, a string of houses out every road for miles past the speed limit signs.

An Taisce are a bunch of wan*ers sticking their oar in everywhere and having no constructive contribution to make, but the countryside is absolutely peppered with houses. And its down to 'site farmers'!

jdivision

medicman2009 wrote: »

It's part of the reason why the IMF/ECB have taken us over

---

GREED!

Precisely. Farmers getting land rezoned and selling it to developers was GREED. Farmers getting "emotional" payments from the NRA for letting them buy their land off them - GREED.

Now, why should the rest of us pay for people to live in one off housing - increased postal, utility plus other charges - while there's hundreds of thousands of empty units out there.

Oh and then there was the locals only regulations - which didn't apply when the house was sold on. A lot of farmers and their families made a nice few quid off that one too.

Son Of A Vidic

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

..Ahh, the anti EU rhetoric. Good to know the good of the country being destroyed by the selfish can be blamed on the EU.

Selfish indeed, Senior Bondholders (German/French banks) lend recklessly to smaller similarly minded reckless Irish banks during fake 'boom'. EU/ECB tighten noose after enslaving sovereignty of the nation and sentence us to a generation of debt. Bad me for not liking the EU!

jdivision wrote: »

Precisely. Farmers getting land rezoned and selling it to developers was GREED.

It's not selling the land that was the problem, it's was the mini-Ballymum's that developers squeezed onto the land. Trying to cram as many houses on to it as possible.

jdivision wrote: »

Now, why should the rest of us pay for people to live in one off housing - increased postal, utility plus other charges

Can you explain? If a postman drives from A to B everyday and a new house is built along the route. Can you tell me where's the cost is coming from? Since the postman is driving past that point anyway everyday, how is this going to cost anything! Similarly with utilities, there's an ESB/Telecom line running along the road, the owner pays a fortune to get connected despite the line being just outside their property. Do you think we're living in Australia? Or there's no established infrastructure already in place?:rolleyes:

jdivision wrote: »

... while there's hundreds of thousands of empty units out there.

Developers buy an acre, or two, or three of land. Fling up sh1t standard housing for a population that doesn't exist and never will. So you think people should be forced to live in these 'settlements' because of this? Sieg you!!

FF and proud

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

When the amount of planning applications to new once off housing is zero, the amount of empty housing estates in Villages won't be hundreds.

Nobody want to live in a housing estate when there is open land around for miles, but its subsidised heavily by the state. And since farming is moving towards larger land holdings with less owners, there is no justification for new once off housing.

No justification, sure what about them people who have been living there for 3, 4, 5 or even 10 generations?

ScumLord

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

FF and proud

ScumLord wrote: »

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

Made to live within town border? Be jany theyd love you in Stalins Russia, how could you justify such a thing as that? We live in a democracy after all, and that includes where we can live.

Cuddlesworth

FF and proud wrote: »

No justification, sure what about them people who have been living there for 3, 4, 5 or even 10 generations?

Ahh sure, go on them. We all seem to love a good sob story in Ireland. It would be horrific if any new family had to move to a house in a village twenty minutes away.

ScumLord

FF and proud wrote: »

Made to live within town border? Be jany theyd love you in Stalins Russia, how could you justify such a thing as that? We live in a democracy after all, and that includes where we can live.

That's the way it is in many European counties, you can't build a house in the middle of nowhere in the UK it has to be within a townland. There's nothing communist about it. It is the democratic thing to do because it's in the best interests of the people at large to do things that way.

steddyeddy

FF and proud wrote: »

What exactly is wrong with them people in an Taisce, I cant count on my hands how many times over the last year alone that people around me have been rejected planning permission. My Father wanted to build a new house to raise his new family, the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter, and some of the neighbours wanted to make an extention to the side of their house.

But low and behold an Taisce come along try and veto against all our planning applications. Whats going on here and when did this organisation have the right to tell us people where to live. This just isnt on at all and sure its killing rural Ireland overall. What do an Taisce want exactly, is it to turn rural Ireland into a big theme park with no people around, just so they can feel better about their sunday drives around the backroads or something?

Right this country can get by without giving anymore planning permission. You talk about taisce wanting kill rural ireland by denying planning permission they are preserving rural ireland. From your post I asssume your part of a farming tradition and your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island? Planning permission given in excess was one of the reasons the economy is bust and innocent people are suffereing as a result of that.

People refused an extension on their house or who are refused planning permission on their land are not in the worst situation possible. Why not sell the land and move into a new house with the money earned from that?

fontanalis

Isn't one off monstrosities (that people won't be afford to heat let alone repay) more of an issue than one of houses (normal ones)?

steddyeddy

the flananator wrote: »

How dare you be so dismissive of this good rural man and his honest-to-God rural problems. This is exactly the kind of attitude I would expect from a so-called Dublin city slicker, you probably live in some sort of West Dublin ghettoland, selling heroin to kids and such like. Shameful.

honest rural to god problems?? sure there are problems in rural ireland but not in the case the op presented. Not being able to build an extension isnt a problem or build on land that you were gifted.

Maybe people are dismissive because these problems are absurd compared to people who can barely pay off a mortgage or afford to build in the first place!

mikemac

steddyeddy wrote: »

your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island?

This brother is working on the family farm
The quote:

the brother wanted to build an extra shed for the animals during the winter

What's the issue with a farmer trying to get permission to build on the land they work? He's going to be getting up during the night for lambing or calving. And 5am starts for silage season. Earlier then 5am actually. Waking up people in an estate with his coming and going

This isn't some holiday home or second home for the weekends for people from a city.

This lads new neighbours are going to love him when he starts parking the tractor in the estate!

Sticky_Fingers

steddyeddy wrote: »

You talk about taisce wanting kill rural ireland by denying planning permission they are preserving rural ireland.

So we should keep the countryside in a big glass case and just admire it from a respectful distance as opposed to say living in it?

steddyeddy wrote: »

From your post I asssume your part of a farming tradition and your brother is building on land already part of the family (ie given too him). Why doesnt he move to one of the 300,000 prebuilt homes on this island?

Yep because those crappily built cookie cutter houses located in ghost estates are exactly where you want to live as opposed to beside your family and friends in a house you designed yourself. Sure they have all the joys of country living but you get that inner city charm as the empty houses around you slowly rot and fall derelict, awesome.

steddyeddy wrote: »

People refused an extension on their house or who are refused planning permission on their land are not in the worst situation possible. Why not sell the land and move into a new house with the money earned from that?

I'm sure people are more then happy to buy land that has no use other then agricultural, if your lucky you may even get 5k an acre. Imagine the palace you could buy in the big city with that type of doss in your pocket.

mfceiling

Listen..........if the government want you to move to high density housing schemes then do as you are told.
I don't care if your elderly parents live in the country and you want to build near them on their land......this should not be your choice.
Remember do as the government tell you - it's not a democracy we live in.

The countryside should be nothing but fields and animals roaming free.......no houses, no farms, hell no roads even.

But how will people be able to farm and work the land for the food we need...........tesco



:rolleyes:

steddyeddy

feelingstressed wrote: »

This brother is working on the family farm
The quote:


What's the issue with a farmer trying to get permission to build on the land they work? He's going to be getting up during the night for lambing or calving. And 5am starts for silage season. Earlier then 5am actually. Waking up people in an estate with his coming and going

This isn't some holiday home or second home for the weekends for people from a city.

This lads new neighbours are going to love him when he starts parking the tractor in the estate!

man im not saying its ideal but honestly if you think this is a real housing problem take a tour around inner city dublin.

in this case building the brothers house may be ok but its defintaly abused by a fair amount of land owners both urban and rural.

steddyeddy

mfceiling wrote: »

Listen..........if the government want you to move to high density housing schemes then do as you are told.
I don't care if your elderly parents live in the country and you want to build near them on their land......this should not be your choice.
Remember do as the government tell you - it's not a democracy we live in.

The countryside should be nothing but fields and animals roaming free.......no houses, no farms, hell no roads even.

But how will people be able to farm and work the land for the food we need...........tesco



:rolleyes:

whos doing that, we have 300,000 spare houses in ireland

steddyeddy

So we should keep the countryside in a big glass case and just admire it from a respectful distance as opposed to say living in it?

Because there are no people living in it now? were not talking about everyday people but farmers building for family, its not a major problem compared to the problems of most in this country.

Yep because those crappily built cookie cutter houses located in ghost estates are exactly where you want to live as opposed to beside your family and friends in a house you designed yourself. Sure they have all the joys of country living but you get that inner city charm as the empty houses around you slowly rot and fall derelict, awesome.

ah well as I said take a walk around inner ciy dublin and come back to me with a real problem. Tell a person living on the top floor of dolphin house that its a real problem having to live a few miles away from family and see what happens.

I'm sure people are more then happy to buy land that has no use other then agricultural, if your lucky you may even get 5k an acre. Imagine the palace you could buy in the big city with that type of doss in your pocket.

Yes I agree, exactly why I think a lot of farmers (not all) should stop moaning

Sticky_Fingers

steddyeddy wrote: »

whos doing that, we have 300,000 spare houses in ireland

We have 300,000 urban houses built in rural Ireland, they are completely unsuitable for the location. If An Taisce want to do something useful I suggest they go hire a bulldozer and demolish these monstrosities (built for urban people who wanted the "charm" and illusion of country living) instead of picking on people who come from the area or actually want to live in the country.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

One off housing should be outlawed altogether and people should be made live within town borders. People are always saying things are better in other countries and it's because they have proper zoning that doesn't allow people to build a house in the middle of nowhere.

Why can't we deal with bad weather? One off housing.
Why are our roads in such a mess? One off housing.
Why have we no services? One off housing.


It's a simple lack of planning and forethought that allows one off housing to ruin this country.

wow didnt realise Pol Pot had fans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
amazing

steddyeddy

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

We have 300,000 urban houses built in rural Ireland, they are completely unsuitable for the location. If An Taisce want to do something useful I suggest they go hire a bulldozer and demolish these monstrosities (built for urban people who wanted the "charm" and illusion of country living) instead of picking on people who come from the area or actually want to live in the country.

Agree but again I dont think farmers being able to build on land they dont have to pay for is the biggest problem in the country

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

That's the way it is in many European counties, you can't build a house in the middle of nowhere in the UK it has to be within a townland. There's nothing communist about it. It is the democratic thing to do because it's in the best interests of the people at large to do things that way.

You seem to be on the ball on this one, this country was gifted with an excess of planning permission. Most countries have stricter laws. corruption defiantly played a big part in the ease of planning permission in ireland.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

wow didnt realise Pol Pot had fans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
amazing

Because hes stating that other countires have more stringent planning permission laws hes a communist?

FF and proud

steddyeddy wrote: »

Because hes stating that other countires have more stringent planning permission laws hes a communist?

No its because he thinks he has the right to tell others where to live. This sort of thing is just not on at all.

steddyeddy

FF and proud wrote: »

No its because he thinks he has the right to tell others where to live. This sort of thing is just not on at all.

Would you object to familes buying land and building houses next to yours with minimul restrictions on planning permision?

Dyr

In all fairness, if we actually had the right to tell backwards mucksavages where they could live then the aran islands would have a higher population density than a f**king tern colony.