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A Strong Leader/ Dictator

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124

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    #92
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    1. Outlawing Fianna Fail

    No thanks.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    2. Decrease our reliance on multinationals, If we can create Irish companies this is much better in the long term. If your economy relies on multinationals you are in constant fear of the day they will pull out

    We don't have a big enough market to justify a lot of heavy industries from being successful here without export. Our geographical position often makes exporting goods expensive, so externally we would be at a disadvantage. We don't have the best of natural resources either, although some industries in Ireland are starting to lead the way internationally. What we need is to set up future multinationals here. The only way to do this is to have the very best of education and talent and to reward it handsomely. Our education system isn't currently set up to encourage this IMO.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    3. A return to the land, family values and getting rid of our consumer culture, we are not a people whose only interest in money, are we?

    I don't own any land. Who's going to give me some? Then again getting rid of a consumer culture is counter productive really to point number 2. Why set up new companies and then dissuade people from buying their products?
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    4. All professional fees be cut by 50%. How many mercs do these guys need?

    Thanks you just cost thousands of jobs, and endangered the IFSC.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    5. Special elite wing of the army be created to deal with drug lords and no go areas. Civil liberties will be suspended while these troops clean out the scum drug lords, particulary in Limerick and Dublin?

    We have an elite wing. We also have elite unit of the gardaí.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    5. New flag , green with a harp.

    That's great. In the middle of a serious economic downturn and cost cutting measures let's spend a small fortune changing the flag for no particular reason.
    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    6. Ultimatley we will leave the EU. Thanks for everything but we want a seperate nation state, a nation,not just an economy

    YAY, and watch us sink back into the 1950's. We'll be killing each other over the field that you have given us all in no time at all.


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    #93
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    prinz wrote: »
    No thanks.



    We don't have a big enough market to justify a lot of heavy industries from being successful here without export. Our geographical position often makes exporting goods expensive, so externally we would be at a disadvantage. We don't have the best of natural resources either, although some industries in Ireland are starting to lead the way internationally. What we need is to set up future multinationals here. The only way to do this is to have the very best of education and talent and to reward it handsomely. Our education system isn't currently set up to encourage this IMO.



    I don't own any land. Who's going to give me some? Then again getting rid of a consumer culture is counter productive really to point number 2. Why set up new companies and then dissuade people from buying their products?



    Thanks you just cost thousands of jobs, and endangered the IFSC.



    We have an elite wing. We also have elite unit of the gardaí.



    That's great. In the middle of a serious economic downturn and cost cutting measures let's spend a small fortune changing the flag for no particular reason.



    YAY, and watch us sink back into the 1950's. We'll be killing each other over the field that you have given us all in no time at all.


    Good man. Do you have your own ideas at all ?


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    #94
    Jazzy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Good man. Do you have your own ideas at all ?

    yeah he probably does. i bet one of them is not subscribing to knee-jerk idiocy


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    #95
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Good man. Do you have your own ideas at all ?

    Oh I have. They'd be almost impossible to carry out and I'd probably be assassinated before long.:D So it's more fun to deal with those of other people.

    Nothing quite as far reaching and worthy as changing the flag though.:rolleyes: That'll save us all.


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    #96
    dolphin city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭dolphin city


    when people hear the word "dictator" they get all hot and bothered under the collar spouting about how bad they are.

    However, they have no problem with a "democratic" country going back to its people after they have given a "democratic" answer through their "democratic right to vote" and be told "listen ye lot, ye are going to do it until ye give us the answer we want", and they still believe that the words "democracy" and "dictatorship" mean something.


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    #97
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    You wont find much support in here OP. Most posters are just about knocking others, even if your views would be considered extreme, at least its a view.
    The sad thing about Ireland is that the same bunch of cronies will be running the country soon again and everyone in here will be moaning about it, rather than doing something about it.
    Typical Ireland, we are great at slagging but we are **** at everything else


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    #98
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    De Dannan wrote: »
    You wont find much support in here OP. Most posters are just about knocking others, even if your views would be considered extreme, at least its a view.

    The OP would get a lot of support if there was anything worth supporting. Wtf is changing our flag got to do with anything at all? :confused: Opinions are like assholes as they say. Doesn't mean they are all equally valid.


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    #99
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    I agree with the point about the drugs lords and the general criminality. The current law doesnt work, why else do we have 'no go' areas in our cities and criminals who laugh at the guards who cannot touch them.
    We see old people being beaten in their own homes by animals who are part of this greater drug culture. Guys in hoodies giving 2 fingers to the police who cannot do anything. Imagine thats your parents or grandparents being beaten !
    I do not respect their civil liberties becasue they do not respect mine
    Our police need to be seriuosly heavy handed with these scum
    **** the bleeding hearts civil liberties


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    #100
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Some folks here clearly need to read Hayek's Road to Serfdom, or at least the Wikipedia article on it. The story is quite simple - so simple there's a cartoon version of it. Ireland had its "war" nearly a century ago, and looks to be somewhere around stage 7 or 8 today, while the OP is looking forward to stage 9. The Media will be needed to sell the "plan" to the people, who will then lose confidence in "planners", and look for a "strong man" to "get things done". These are all stages on the Road to Serfdom. :rolleyes:

    PS: the same goes for the OP in this thread. Do you lot think Ireland's situation is unique? In socio-historical terms, it's not.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #101
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    7. Remove all funding for RTE. They have advertising revenue AND tv licence money. Why are we paying for 500k salaries for their overpaid stars ?


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    #102
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Hmmm lets see how history fares with this one. I'll leave aside the Romans because it's a past so remote as to nearly be irrelevant now.

    1-Henry VII, VIII, Mary, Charles 1 etc etc basically any monarch in England medieval and Renaissance Europe who killed anyone they didn't like.
    2-The Reign of Terror during the French Revolution-self explanatory.
    3-Countless numbers of Chinese emperors and leaders-The Manchu, The Taiping, The Chinese Nationalists, Mao etc
    4-Hitler
    5-Stalin
    6-Pol Pot
    7-Robert Mugabe
    8-The Burmese military junta
    9-Pinochet
    10-The Argentine military junta
    11-Franco
    12-Mussolini

    That's just for starters..

    No, no, no I don't think dictatorships work at all at all.


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    #103
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Hmmm lets see how history fares with this one. I'll leave aside the Romans because it's a past so remote as to nearly be irrelevant now.

    1-Henry VII, VIII, Mary, Charles 1 etc etc basically any monarch in England medieval and Renaissance Europe who killed anyone they didn't like.
    2-The Reign of Terror during the French Revolution-self explanatory.
    3-Countless numbers of Chinese emperors and leaders-The Manchu, The Taiping, The Chinese Nationalists, Mao etc
    4-Hitler
    5-Stalin
    6-Pol Pot
    7-Robert Mugabe
    8-The Burmese military junta
    9-Pinochet
    10-The Argentine military junta
    11-Franco
    12-Mussolini

    That's just for starters..

    No, no, no I don't think dictatorships work at all at all.

    Was Franco bad for Spain? there are many who say he was good for Spain


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    #104
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    De Dannan wrote: »
    Was Franco bad for Spain? there are many who say he was good for Spain

    If you were of the 400,000 he was responsible for killing you probably wouldn't think so. He brutally suppressed freedom of speech, political freedom, journalism, the Catalan and Basque languages etc etc

    You could argue the economic 'Spanish Miracle' was a positive legacy of Franco but I think it's outweighed by his ferocious repression.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain-quite a good wiki article on it.


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    #105
    Jesus Wept
    Registered Users Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    I'd sort this shit tip out.
    Vote for me.


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    #106
    De Dannan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭De Dannan


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    I'd sort this shit tip out.
    Vote for me.

    Voting will not be required, thank you anyway


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    #107
    virmilitaris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭virmilitaris


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Yeah - dictatorships always work out really well. Let's have one of them.

    Actually you'd be surprised how many of them do and have in fact worked out well, economically at least.

    Park Chung-hee of South Korea for example who ruled as President / Dictator from 1961 until his assassination in 1979. He took a country still ravaged by war, a country which was one of if not the poorest in all of Asia even much poorer and worse off than it's neighbour North Korea and he turned it into one of the biggest economic powerhouses in the world.

    He normalised relations with Japan, an extremely unpopular decision with a population who had lived under Japanese oppression a few years previously. This allowed for Japanese and American investment. He is responsible for supporting companies like Samsung and Hyundai, allowing them to grow from tiny origins to huge conglomerates.

    Park Chung-Hee is the reason South Korea is not in the same state or a similar state as North Korea is today, economically speaking.

    Other examples would be Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore, Anwar El Sadat of Egypt and Deng Xiaoping of China.

    The word dictator comes from ancient Rome. When the Roman Republic was facing a serious threat such as invasion the senate would give one man the powers of 'dictator'. This man would deal with the problem and then give up the power.

    The negative meaning of the word dictator only started when one man didn't give back the power. His name was Caesar.


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    #108
    virmilitaris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭virmilitaris


    prinz wrote: »
    We don't have a big enough market to justify a lot of heavy industries from being successful here without export.

    I'd just like to comment on this point. I thought the same as you until quite recently. I'm living in Korea with my wife and she works in connection with some large conglomerates here and she told me something very surprising. The Korean market, of 50 million people, is worth very little to companies like Samsung, LG, Hyundai etc.

    This information came about because I asked her why some Korean products such as Hyundai cars and Samsung electronics are actually more expensive in Korea than abroad and why these products are often launched abroad and not at home first. The domestic market is simply not important compared to markets like the EU, US and others.

    My point is that any heavy industries we would or could create in Ireland would be entirely dependent on export but that's not a bad thing.
    Our geographical position often makes exporting goods expensive, so externally we would be at a disadvantage.

    There are many export reliant countries in the same position.
    We don't have the best of natural resources either, although some industries in Ireland are starting to lead the way internationally.

    Korea and Japan are two of the biggest exporters in the world and they have almost no natural resources. e.g. those Hyundai or Kia cars are made from steel made from Chinese ore.
    What we need is to set up future multinationals here. The only way to do this is to have the very best of education and talent and to reward it handsomely. Our education system isn't currently set up to encourage this IMO.

    I agree we need to attract multinationals here but we also need to have our own companies at the same time. At the end of the day having an economy which is completely reliant on multi-nationals is good for the short-term but negligent in the long.


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    #109
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    virmilitaris wrote: »



    I agree we need to attract multinationals here but we also need to have our own companies at the same time. At the end of the day having an economy which is completely reliant on multi-nationals is good for the short-term but negligent in the long.

    Exactly, relying soley on multi-national investment is not the way forward. Of course some FDI is welcome but basing our whole economy on it as some people advocate just isn't good economic theory, we need indigenous industy also.


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    #110
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    The Irish electorate would be scared of a strong leader lol. Bunch of pussies


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    #111
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,855 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    [QUOTE=HavingCrack;69116127 He brutally suppressed freedom of speech, political freedom, journalism, the Catalan and Basque languages etc etc.[/QUOTE]There is a Spanish photo of a couple kissing in the street with a policeman nearby. This was taken shortly after Franco's time. It caused a stir because such things would not have happened before.

    That is the level dictatorships can work at in civilized countries. You don't hear much about the dictatorships of Eastern Europe between the wars, like you don't hear an awful lot about the dictatorships of the former soviet republics.

    It would be interesting to plot decocracy / dictatorships vs. per capita GDP , to see what patterns emerge , but we would we way above the dictatorship levels.


    What we need are statesmen, people who think further ahead than the next election , people that will trust the public to vote with their brains rather than their pockets


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    #112
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    As the situation deteriorates the need for a leader grows ever stronger

    Proposals (early ideas)

    1. Outlawing Fianna Fail
    2. Decrease our reliance on multinationals, If we can create Irish companies this is much better in the long term. If your economy relies on multinationals you are in constant fear of the day they will pull out
    3. A return to the land, family values and getting rid of our consumer culture, we are not a people whose only interest in money, are we ?
    4. All professional fees be cut by 50%. How many mercs do these guys need ?
    5. Special elite wing of the army be created to deal with drug lords and no go areas. Civil liberties will be suspended while these troops clean out the scum drug lords, particulary in Limerick and Dublin
    5. New flag , green with a harp.
    6. Ultimatley we will leave the EU. Thanks for everything but we want a seperate nation state, a nation,not just an economy

    knock away

    7. no fat chicks


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    #113
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    Hate to say I told you so but .............

    A strong leader would have told those IMF/EU guys to get real. Yes we need loads of cash but if we go down so do you, so lets cut a deal ;)
    Instead of bend over Ireland


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    #114
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    th3 s1aught3r wrote: »
    Hate to say I told you so but .............

    A strong leader would have told those IMF/EU guys to get real. Yes we need loads of cash but if we go down so do you, so lets cut a deal ;)
    Instead of bend over Ireland

    A strong leader would have put the Irish people first therefor we would not even be in this mess in the first place.


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    #115
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    virmilitaris wrote: »
    I agree we need to attract multinationals here but we also need to have our own companies at the same time. At the end of the day having an economy which is completely reliant on multi-nationals is good for the short-term but negligent in the long.
    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Exactly, relying soley on multi-national investment is not the way forward. Of course some FDI is welcome but basing our whole economy on it as some people advocate just isn't good economic theory, we need indigenous industy also.

    I think ye two took me up wrong, I agree with the above. When I said we needed to set up the multinationals of the future here, I meant we had to start off Irish companies which go on to become the multinationals of the future... so instead if relying on companies coming here, our companies are opening up around the world. What we can't do is set up companies solely to cater to the Irish market.


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    #116
    gonedrinking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 810 ✭✭✭gonedrinking


    We already have a dictatorship and look how its going. One man was able to make a monumental long term decision without having to pass it in the dail first. There are questions about the legality of the bailout loan being approved without a vote in the dail but I'm sure nothing will come of it, since none of the opposition parties care.


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    #117
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    prinz wrote: »
    I think ye two took me up wrong, I agree with the above. When I said we needed to set up the multinationals of the future here, I meant we had to start off Irish companies which go on to become the multinationals of the future... so instead if relying on companies coming here, our companies are opening up around the world. What we can't do is set up companies solely to cater to the Irish market.

    Ah ok :D


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    #118
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    gonedrinking wrote: »
    We already have a dictatorship and look how its going. .

    No. We have a crowd of elected representitives, and look how it is going


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    #119
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    It's at times like this that I'd love to see someone like you move to Burma or North Korea and see what it's like in a dictatorship. A dictator will sort us out, what sort of a fool thinks that!

    Actually please move to Burma and keep posting on boards.ie, never mind that having a modem without a licence in Burma will get you 15 years in jail :rolleyes:


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    #120
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,962 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    I'd sort this shit tip out.
    Vote for me.
    I don't know if you meant that as a joke - vote for a Dictator? - but look at what happened in Germany: after two German Federal elections in 1932, they went from "free and fair elections" to a dictatorship in about three months. They never voted for Hitler directly, nor did the Nazis ever enjoy a popular majority, but you don't need those things in a parliamentary democracy - which Germany was before 1933, and Ireland is today.

    After the second election in November 1932, the Nazi party (NSDAP) lost a few seats but was still the largest in the Reichstag, without a clear majority - a bit like the UK after the last election. The Nazis had to form a coalition government, and Hitler was appointed Chancellor in January 1933 after some political manoeuvring; the President (von Hindenburg) didn't want to do it, because he could see that Hitler was trouble, but was left with no choice. They passed a few laws straight away, but the real start of the dictatorship was the burning of the Reichstag in late February: the President passed a decree authorising emergency powers, and the rest was just a matter of ... coordination. a.k.a. Gleichschaltung. Alles in Ordnung, Jawohl? :eek:

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #121
    th3 s1aught3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    TwoShedsJackson wrote: »
    It's at times like this that I'd love to see someone like you move to Burma or North Korea and see what it's like in a dictatorship. A dictator will sort us out, what sort of a fool thinks that!

    A fool like me :pac:


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