Who do you blame for the financial mess we're in?

Monty Burnz · 23-11-2010 05:51PM

fluorescence wrote: »

The banks are the main culprits - the bubble simply couldn't have been created if they hadn't been lending out borrowed money which they had no way of repaying. Advertising 100% mortgages to anyone who could fill out a form was pure idiocy.

Who was responsible for regulating the banks? Because that role exists in society for a reason, right?

Chuchoter · 23-11-2010 05:56PM

I blame everyone.

Ginger Nut · 23-11-2010 05:58PM

crayolastereo wrote: »

I blame everyone.

Yep me too -

Fluorescence · 23-11-2010 05:58PM

I am a friend wrote: »

A lot of it was lent on the basis of incorrect information e.g. self employed accounts being inflated, your boss writing a letter to say you earned more than you did etc etc

The country is rotten to the core with corruption and there is no point pretending its not...

Do you take everything people tell you at face value? If you were going to lend a complete stranger money, would you assume they were telling the entire truth about their situation or would you take your time to fully research their background?

I have never said this country and its people are pure and uncorrupted. People have the capacity to be greedy, selfish idiots when it suits them to be, but that is true globally and is not a unique Irish trait. The recession was a world-wide thing, but not every country collapsed! That is because the people at the top stopped corruption taking hold and were sensible about their finances. The same is not true of the people at the top here, which is why the chancers got away with it. Of course the general pubic share the blame, but I still stand by my point that if the banks had lent sensibly instead of letting so many people chance their arm and take on stupid amounts of debt we would not be in the situation we are now.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Who was responsible for regulating the banks? Because that role exists in society for a reason, right?

I put the financial regulator on my list as well, just behind the banks.

Monty Burnz · 23-11-2010 06:01PM

fluorescence wrote: »

I put the financial regulator on my list as well, just behind the banks.

And who holds ultimate responsibility for the (in)action of the regulator, monitoring what he (wasn't) doing and giving him political direction?

Fluorescence · 23-11-2010 06:02PM

The government of course, which is why I put them on par with the old regulator who sat back and said nothing.

Fluorescence · 23-11-2010 06:42PM

I am a friend wrote: »

What about the people who took it, gave false information and knew they couldnt pay it back but wanted it anyway??? Where is our responsibility???

...

A lot of it was lent on the basis of incorrect information e.g. self employed accounts being inflated, your boss writing a letter to say you earned more than you did etc etc

To this point: I'm sure there are people like this in plenty of 1st world countries - people who lie about their finances in order to secure loans. I'm also sure that most lending institutions in those countries do a proper background check instead of taking the word of someone who's close to the applier for granted. Over here the banks were so desperate to make a profit that they rushed through everything and tried to get as many people to borrow as they could.

Copper23 · 23-11-2010 06:47PM

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!

they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

The notion of an opposition means they are in the minority in the house which makes it fairly difficult in general to have the government out voted in anything despite length debates challenging them.

kelle · 23-11-2010 06:53PM

The banks.

If they hadn't started lending out money recklessly the country wouldn't be in this mess. The fact they relaxed the criteria for the amount of money people were allowed to borrow is what drove up house prices, and has left so many young people struggling.

beanyb · 23-11-2010 07:40PM

Tricked wrote: »

IMO Lenihan, while failing to save the economy, is by no means to blame for the heap of **** left on their doorstep by the FFers that preceded him. Cowen deserves blame purely for not piping up

While I agree that he isn't to blame for the heap of sh*t landed at his feet, he is to blame for the decisions that he has made since becoming Minister for Finance in 08. Namely, he is responsible for the Bank Guarantee and NAMA, both of which have made the situation that we are in worse. The reason we need a bailout is largely because the Irish state is now responsible for the debts of the banks. And this is the fault of Brian Lenihan. I'm fed up of people excusing the role that he has played in this.

Also, on Patrick Neary - he is to a certain extent, a scapegoat. Yes, he is culpable for his failure to regulate the banks. However, he was a political appointment and he was appointed precisely because he was an old man that wouldn't regulate anything. He was put there specifically to do what he did. So the responsibility for what he did lies largely with those that appointed him ie. the government.

Having said all that, I voted for every option in the poll. All bear a lot of responsibility for where we find ourselves.

stepbar · 23-11-2010 07:40PM

kelle wrote: »

The banks.

If they hadn't started lending out money recklessly the country wouldn't be in this mess. The fact they relaxed the criteria for the amount of money people were allowed to borrow is what drove up house prices, and has left so many young people struggling.

The domestic banks relaxed the rules because a) other foreign banks were getting in on the act (to get market share) by offering customers crazy rates sometimes as low as 0.65% above ECB b) people were brow beating the banks into relaxing rules and c) the financial regulator allowed them to do so by inaction.

You cannot take one in isolation of the other. The banks gave customers what they wanted. And ultimately, people signed LEGAL agreements. People can talk all they like about banks etc, but at the of the day, people made the choices and signed on the dotted line. Nobody cried wolf. Nobody stepped in to say "this is wrong". Bertie Ahern said some should go commit suicide. The Government couldn't even take the heat out of the economy by increasing interest rates either (and believe me I'm no apologist for the Govenment). However, the regulator had the power to do something and didn't. And funny enough, I hear no one mention the involvement auctioneers and valuers had in all this. The biggest pests of them all.

The banks were encouraged to lend money, that is their business after all. More money lent = more profit in an ideal world. I mean that is the ultimate goal of any business not just a bank, to make profit. Now that things have gone pair shaped, the rats are now jumping the ship.

To say the banks are the sole architects of this problem is a bit nieve to say the least.

Kev_ps3 · 23-11-2010 07:41PM

Should be an 'all of the above' option..

Pal · 23-11-2010 08:05PM

I blame Mary Coughlan for being the biggest gobhsite politician this country has ever seen. Ever..

People of Donegal South West. Do your bit and chuck her out. Please.

Rodin · 23-11-2010 08:07PM

Everyone in the country is to blame

Nolanger · 23-11-2010 08:30PM

Financial regulator (the last one). Total gobsh1te who was afraid to do his job.

stepbar · 23-11-2010 08:39PM

Rodin wrote: »

Everyone in the country is to blame

So my granny of 95 who never borrowed a penny in her life is to blame? Indeed..... :rolleyes:

kelle · 23-11-2010 10:27PM

stepbar wrote: »

And funny enough, I hear no one mention the involvement auctioneers and valuers had in all this. The biggest pests of them all.

OK, auctioneers encouraged buyers to bid higher and higher in order to secure the property they wanted. But, the buyer would never have been able to increase the asking price to an unrealistic level if the bank only allowed them to borrow 2.5 times their salary as they had in the mid-90s - therefore the property prices would not have spiralled.

stepbar wrote: »

The banks were encouraged to lend money, that is their business after all. More money lent = more profit in an ideal world. I mean that is the ultimate goal of any business not just a bank, to make profit.

To say the banks are the sole architects of this problem is a bit nieve to say the least.

They are also supposed to ensure they can get this money back!

stepbar · 23-11-2010 10:37PM

Selective quoting eh?

You're deluded if you honestly think the banks were the sole architects of the problems we have in this country. Are you aware of Section 23 and 50 housing? How about the famous Carpark incentives? The incentives given to top rate tax payers to set aside money for retirement? Government policies designed to enrich the already rich.

kelle · 23-11-2010 10:43PM

Well, I say the bankers!

Makes no difference anyway, we're all in the sh*t!

stepbar · 23-11-2010 10:47PM

kelle wrote: »

Well, I say the bankers!

Makes no difference anyway, we're all in the sh*t!

Maybe you should educate yourself so. Clearly you haven't a clue.

kelle · 23-11-2010 10:54PM

I've educated myself enough thank you very much!

Sorry you don't like my opinion, but you'll have to make do!

Are you a banker, by any chance?

stepbar · 23-11-2010 10:59PM

kelle wrote: »

I've educated myself enough thank you very much!

Sorry you don't like my opinion, but you'll have to make do!

Are you a banker, by any chance?

Clearly not in your ability to debate facts mentioned in my posts.

And yes I am a banker... But let's not that get in the way of debate :rolleyes:

wilson10 · 23-11-2010 11:03PM

With regard to the 51 people who voted for the opposition parties, I assume these are some of the people who vote for Wagner on Xfactor every weekend.

Dudess · 23-11-2010 11:08PM

"The Irish people", "We are all to blame", "The electorate" (with their invisible accompanying "except me") - would ye ever fuk off! :mad:

Oh and a fantastic gem: "The house-buyers".

Just because a lot of you voted Fianna Fail, don't blame everyone else...

Things are bad here but it's never been a one-party state just yet. The electorate didn't all vote Fianna Fail - it's really not that difficult to grasp.

beanyb · 23-11-2010 11:09PM

wilson10 wrote: »

With regard to the 51 people who voted for the opposition parties, I assume these are some of the people who vote for Wagner on Xfactor every weekend.

Well, I voted for the opposition parties along with every single other option in the poll. And I did this because they weren't exactly shouting stop during the madness of the Celtic Tiger years. To see this, all you have to do is look at their manifestos in 2007.

I accept that they are less culpable than pretty much all of the other options in the poll. But they still bear some responsibility. And I say this as a Labour supporter that will be voting Labour in the next election.

kelle · 23-11-2010 11:12PM

stepbar wrote: »

And yes I am a banker... But let's not that get in the way of debate :rolleyes:

Enough said

stepbar · 23-11-2010 11:16PM

kelle wrote: »

I've educated myself enough thank you very much!

Sorry you don't like my opinion, but you'll have to make do!

Are you a banker, by any chance?

kelle wrote: »

Enough said

Ah, rite.... Let's debate the facts and not the clowen ideology that you clearly subscribe to. The fact that I have to pull you up on this speaks for itself.

squod · 23-11-2010 11:16PM

Currently only 34.97% of people here believe the present government is to blame with many blaming the banks. It was the current line up of the Greens and FF who bailed Anglo in a recession. That's the actual cause of this mess we're in.

No fool in his right mind would have given a blanket guarantee to the banks. Since Labour is the only party (AFAIK) who didn't endorse that guarantee I'll be voting for them. The rest should hang their heads in shame ( and fuck off somewhere else ).

stepbar · 23-11-2010 11:18PM

squod wrote: »

Currently only 34.97% of people here believe the present government is to blame with many blaming the banks. It was the current line up of the Greens and FF who bailed Anglo in a recession. That's the actual cause of this mess we're in.

No fool in his right mind would have given a blanket guarantee to the banks. Since Labour is the only party (AFAIK) who didn't endorse that guarantee I'll be voting for them. The rest should hang their heads in shame ( and fuck off somewhere else ).

Not being funny but the entire percentages add up to more than 100%....

Princess Peach · 23-11-2010 11:20PM

Blame Canada!

Who do you blame for the financial mess we're in?

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