Who do you blame for the financial mess we're in?

TheZohanS

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

Jim DeMint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HER2pGdAak

charlie1966

I blame the film The bonfire of the Vanities, but only because it was such a crap film and should be blamed for everything.

In reality we are all to blame. it would take too long a post to itemize why everyone is to blame and I would surely miss some people out of the list. So instead I will just say I am responsible for any mess I get myself into and more importantly I am responsible for getting myself out of said mess.
So to all you whingers of the state of the economy, GROW A SET (that includes both genders) deal with it, life is too short and too precious.

Finally I will just say that I am not speaking from a financially comfortable position, but I am determined not to let this situation get Me down, are any of you?

Here endeth the lesson.

Monty Burnz

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

That will be the Fianna Failure voters. Their tribalism trumps any kind of logic.

up for anything

Me!


What's the capital of Ireland?

About 4 Euros.

obrienie

Just watched RTE News video feed on EU bailout confimation about ten times. I feel sorry for the government in power now, they clearly are in quite a bad position. I think that they are guilthy of only one thing: the inability to interact with their public.

Fianna Fail were given the job of steering this country into the ground. But this was going to happen regardless of what party were in power. The world is crumbling financially and that is a factor seldom mentioned by people who are looking for someone to point the finger at.

The problem in this country, unfortunately, is far more deep routed than a shoddy political framework.

Our public went from struggling to survive in the 80's to addiction problems in the 90's and 00's. Californication took hold and we embraced it. We bought big cars and electric gates. We fell victim to the greatest drug of all: Money.

We can point fingers and gain comfort from the thought that the baddies (Fianna Fail) are out there but they simply are not. It is not the greed of the few, it is the greed of the many. And like all bubbles, no matter how big they get, they always burst.

It is inevitable that Fianna Fail will be kicked out on the heads for they caused "all" of the misery in our lives. And the party that will follow them will also fall victim to the same scrutiny because there simply is nothing that they can do.

Bush pumping, not billions, but trillions into a war for nothing else but oil revenue and control. There simply is no money left people. We have to face the reprocusions.

bladespin

Brian Cowen, full stop.

clived2

greed

obrienie

I have never even voted, I just spent five years in college to find that I cannot get a job. I have as much of a reason to be angry as anyone. But I am not blind.

Sea Sharp

I know the Irish government is mostly to blame but the EU did set the conditions for the mess we're in today. Not that I blame the EU, but I do feel that the following should be in the poll.

The Nice Treaty: This meant that Eastern Europeans could come over here freely which in turn fueled the property bubble.

Monty Burnz

Sea Sharp wrote: »

I know the Irish government is mostly to blame but the EU did set the conditions for the mess we're in today. Not that I blame the EU, but I do feel that the following should be in the poll.

The Nice Treaty: This meant that Eastern Europeans could come over here freely which in turn fueled the property bubble.

If our government did its job and the banks were regulated, this would have just fueled our economy. Britain and other countries had similar influxes of workers, but I don't seem them bankrupt.

steddyeddy

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That will be the Fianna Failure voters. Their tribalism trumps any kind of logic.

you hit the nail on the head, backward primitive tribalism

Sea Sharp

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If our government did its job and the banks were regulated, this would have just fueled our economy. Britain and other countries had similar influxes of workers, but I don't seem them bankrupt.

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

obrienie

Look at every sign posted at the start of everyone of our new roads, all of them have a stamp claiming "Funded by the EU". The Nice Treaty, The Lisbon Treaty...they are just formalising the affair. Put it down in words so to speak, what is already a reality.

We would be in very serious trouble without EU directive. Think of our basic human rights and how they have improved. Homosexuality was de-criminalised after EU criticism. It goes without words that we would be crippled without the EU for issues like export.

As for the Eastern European work argument, it is not the issue. Will an unqualified Eastern European worker get a high paying job over a qualified and educated Irish worker, never heard of that happening to be honest. Most Eastern Europeans looking for work in this country are doing jobs which can be paid cash in hand and so therefore are often menial. This is work that us First World Irish people would have dismissed up to this point. Their lives were like ours in the 50's and 60's, impoverished. And they have reacted like we have always done, we emmigrated.

Monty Burnz

Sea Sharp wrote: »

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

Agreed.

Kimono-Girl

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!


they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

steddyeddy

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!


they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

Very few people knew the scale of the corruption

neil_hosey

steddyeddy wrote: »

Very few people knew the scale of the corruption

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

Agreed - methinks we have a few ministers in the mix...

Wibbs

Sea Sharp wrote: »

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

This. I blame our inclusion in the Eurozone.

I hope I'm so very wrong, but I can see the Euro actually failing. We're naturally looking at ourselves as is the world, but lets look elsewhere. Stuff off the front pages for the most part and what may come next. Greeces bailout has hit a few bumps, with Austria recently baulking at how its going.

Look to Portugal http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Portugal-braces-for-market-apf-958639662.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode= the euro did them no favours and after we look vaguely like stabilising the markets will round on them and they're very shaky.

If they stumble Spain is next and if Spain goes it's game over. Their economy is just simply too big to bail out in any meaningful way. As it stands they have a near 20% unemployment rate. That's overall. Among the young between 20 and 30, its nearer 30%. That's not good.

They also had a housing bubble on the back of cheap credit in the early naughties(back to the Euro again). House prices ramped up and we're not talking about some taxi driver thinking he was Alan Sugar and buying a half finished pile in Marbella(pronounced with the L's included). We're talking ordinary Spaniards.

If they look shaky and I really really hope they don't and our bailout starts to tighten belts all over the place. If not then there is a real possibility that the EU's finances could be in a very bad state down the line. Plus sooner or later the citizens of Germany and France and any of the other OK eurozone economies are going to start (understanably) getting pissed off with bailing out others.

Kimono-Girl

neil_hosey wrote: »

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

in my opinion they all did! if they didn't they weren't very good at their job now were they?

the only people who didn't know of the corruption in my opinion are the average joe soaps who have nothing to do with politics...

in my opinion those in the inner circle (FF, FG, Labour, greens,) knew damn well what was going on and the scale of it and are lying through their teeth now to save their careers!

they are all as bad as each other,

in my opinion FF = FG there is virtually no difference between them anymore, the corruption amongst their parties is rife!

its an age old fact "where money and power are found, corruption is not far behind"

Monty Burnz

neil_hosey wrote: »

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

The Fianna Failure hierarchy did. How far down the party it reached, I couldn't guess. Maybe an insider like Ninety9er could tell us.

Monty Burnz

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

in my opinion those in the inner circle (FF, FG, Labour, greens,) knew damn well what was going on and the scale of it and are lying through their teeth now to save their careers!

I don't think that the other parties were in on the relationships between Fianna Failure and the property developers and financiers. I'd even excuse the idiotic Greens on that score. Fianna Failure were bought and paid for - I don't think the other parties benefited from this arrangement because they couldn't serve the interests of the developers without their hands on the levers of power.

And why would Fianna Failure let all the other parties in on their corruption?

bamboozle

bit of a pointless poll in that you can only vote for 1 party when it took a number of variables to create the mess we are now in.

Bertie & Pat Neary would be my 2 main culprets followed closely by the inept carry-on of Biffo while minister for doing what Bertie says/finance

inforfun

Everybody but me.

No, seriously.

I am not irish so i cant vote.
I didnt fall for the bank calling me every 2 weeks trying to sell me a mortgage.
I might have taken some Irish persons job, however, very few of the irish could do my job (language).
I didnt built, invested or developed houses.

Really... you cant blame me.
I am paying for it though.

steddyeddy

neil_hosey wrote: »

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

no but anyone with half a brain knows that on an island where the amount of planning permission in the last few years exceeded that of the uk a huge amount of corruption was taking place

Monty Burnz

bamboozle wrote: »

Bertie & Pat Neary would be my 2 main culprets followed closely by the inept carry-on of Biffo while minister for doing what Bertie says/finance

Yes - Patrick Neary seems to get off pretty much scot-free, and he played a huge role. Unfortunately, I'd bet that upwards of 80% of the public don't know who he was or what he was doing. I was complaining day and night about him 4 or 5 years ago when we still could have mitigated this disaster, but now, when the X-Factor people finally realise that we have a huge problem, he's already gone off the scene and will never get the blame he deserves.

Einhard

Sea Sharp wrote: »

The Nice Treaty: This meant that Eastern Europeans could come over here freely which in turn fueled the property bubble.

To an insignificant extent. Do you really think that the Eastern Europenas who settled here were the ones snapping up overpriced houses? Seriously? Any that I know live in rented accomodation, and send their money home so they can buy their homes in Poland or Hungary. It takes denial on a grand scale to blame emigration for our problems.

Einhard

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!


they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

We all knew what was going on. FG or Labour didn't have any unique insight. It was obvious to anyone who gave a shit that we were on an unsustainable road. Unfortunately, not enough people gave a shit. And are you really stating that FG are more responsible than FF for the decisions that FF made?

Everyone is to blame except for me.

I was a minor during the Celtic Tiger / housing bubble, so I couldn't vote in elections or referenda or take out a hefty mortgage. Then, when I graduated from college and got a full-time job, what happened? The crash, the 'austerity budgets' and the income levy.

Although really, the joke's on you pricks who bought property in Bulgaria and ate Donnybrook Fair food for lunch at their bank desk, who are now unemployed or in negative equity. I get lower prices, cheap rent and plenty of well-paying job prospects; you get to stand in line for hours every week.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Monty Burnz

Einhard wrote: »

We all knew what was going on. FG or Labour didn't have any unique insight.

It was worse than that: if you actually pointed out that we were in a bubble, people used to ridicule you, call you a doom-sayer, marginalise you. I had lots of arguments with colleagues where I worked back in 2003, 2004, telling them not to buy houses, that we were living in a bubble etc. etc. I would have gotten a better reaction from people if I told them I was a child rapist. In the end, when yet another colleague or friend did some stupid bubble-thing like pay half a million for a little 2 bed apartment, or bought a house with a friend (we'll sell it for a profit in a few years) I just nodded and smiled at them. It wasn't worth warning people anymore, it cost me too much.