Who do you blame for the financial mess we're in?

Kimono-Girl

Einhard wrote: »

We all knew what was going on. FG or Labour didn't have any unique insight. It was obvious to anyone who gave a shit that we were on an unsustainable road. Unfortunately, not enough people gave a shit. And are you really stating that FG are more responsible than FF for the decisions that FF made?

the question i was answering was based on someones lack of understanding of how people can blame the opposition,

i simply gave my opinion!

and in my opinion FF ****ed up, but then so did FG by knowing what was happening and allowing it to happen...

no political party is blameless here!

Monty Burnz

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It was worse than that: if you actually pointed out that we were in a bubble, people used to ridicule you, call you a doom-sayer, marginalise you. I had lots of arguments with colleagues where I worked back in 2003, 2004, telling them not to buy houses, that we were living in a bubble etc. etc. I would have gotten a better reaction from people if I told them I was a child rapist. In the end, when yet another colleague or friend did some stupif bubble-thing like pay half a million for a little 2 bed apartment, or bought a house with a friend (we'll sell it for a profit in a few years) I just nodded and smiled at them. It wasn't worth warning people anymore, it cost me too much.

You won in the end, though, and fair play to you. Don't be the bigger man, rub it in their faces at every possible opportunity!

Minstrel27

I selected every box but some groups more so than others.

Toes

Greed......

Xavi6

bladespin wrote: »

Brian Cowen, full stop.

So if there was a new Taoiseach everything would be ok? Really?

Yakult

Xavi6 wrote: »

So if there was a new Taoiseach everything would be ok? Really?

No, but it doesnt help that he was the FINANCE minister and now leader of our country.

He packs alot of the blame.

Xavi6

R_H_C_P wrote: »

No, but it doesnt help that he was the FINANCE minister and now leader of our country.

He packs alot of the blame.

Of course but I was comenting on the post that had his name followed by 'full stop'.

If only it were that simple.

steddyeddy

R_H_C_P wrote: »

No, but it doesnt help that he was the FINANCE minister and now leader of our country.

He packs alot of the blame.

bertie packs far far more

FreudianSlippers

I blame jesus.

Morlar

OisinT wrote: »

I blame jesus.

Surely atheist wetdreams like dawkins with an anti-god philosophy that culminates in a culture of instant gratification, no afterlife or morality to consider, churning out perfect little soulless consumers has more to blame for this ?










hehe

FreudianSlippers

Morlar wrote: »

Surely atheist wetdreams like dawkins with an anti-god philosophy that culminates in a culture of instant gratification, no afterlife or morality to consider, churning out perfect little soulless consumers has more to blame for this ?










hehe

Nope. Just that jesus bloke.

Morlar

OisinT wrote: »

Nope. Just that jesus bloke.

I admire your blind faith in that theory.

Morlar

Morlar wrote: »

Surely atheist wetdreams like dawkins with an anti-god philosophy that culminates in a culture of instant gratification, no afterlife or morality to consider, churning out perfect little soulless consumers has more to blame for this ?

You have a point. Atheism is dangeous, not only for our kids, but for our economic stability. People these days are too busy having sex or smoking the Cannabis (which contains ACID and causes PSYCHOSIS), or being too doped up on their antidepressants to go out and work hard, both for their country and for the Lord.

FreudianSlippers

And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables." John 2:13-15 (KJV)

The moneychangers of Jesus' day were the equivalent of the international bankers of our day. With the consent and approbation of the Jewish leaders, these bankers set up shop in the Temple. Their purpose was to exchange whatever currency the Jewish worshipper brought with him or her into Jewish currency, which would then be used to purchase whatever sacrifice the worshipper required. Of course, the exchange rates benefited only the bankers and Jewish leaders (and Caesar, who collected a tax on the exchange, of course). For everyone else, the system was nothing more than legalized extortion.

When Jesus saw what the bankers were doing, He was incensed. And throughout the Gospel narratives, this is the only occasion where Jesus is recorded as resorting to violence. He made a scourge (or whip) and drove the bankers out of the Temple by force and destroyed their tables, along with their records, receipts, etc.

Fúcking jesus. :mad:

Tricked

Bertie's Boys.

McCreevey for his sheer inability to listen to the hoards of economists shouting at him to follow even the most basic of counter cyclical policies. Bertie for being oblivious to the impending doom despite the ECJ and European Bank telling him he's taking the piss. I guess the electorate during this period of time but due to FF's policy of spend spend spend and telling us it would all be fine we were none the wiser to what would actually happen.

IMO Lenihan, while failing to save the economy, is by no means to blame for the heap of **** left on their doorstep by the FFers that preceded him. Cowen deserves blame purely for not piping up

Morlar

Deleted User wrote: »

You have a point. Atheism is dangeous, not only for our kids, but for our economic stability. People these days are too busy having sex or smoking the Cannabis (which contains ACID and causes PSYCHOSIS), or being too doped up on their antidepressants to go out and work hard, both for their country and for the Lord.

Amen, brother.

Handsome Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

You have a point. Atheism is dangeous, not only for our kids, but for our economic stability. People these days are too busy having sex or smoking the Cannabis (which contains ACID and causes PSYCHOSIS), or being too doped up on their antidepressants to go out and work hard, both for their country and for the Lord.

Praise Jesus!

FreudianSlippers

Deleted User wrote: »

You have a point. Atheism is dangeous, not only for our kids, but for our economic stability. People these days are too busy having sex or smoking the Cannabis (which contains ACID and causes PSYCHOSIS), or being too doped up on their antidepressants to go out and work hard, both for their country and for the Lord.

I hope to FSM you are not being serious! :eek:

OisinT

OisinT wrote: »

I hope to FSM you are not being serious! :eek:

Morlar

Tricked wrote: »

Bertie's Boys.

McCreevey for his sheer inability to listen to the hoards of economists shouting at him to follow even the most basic of counter cyclical policies. Bertie for being oblivious to the impending doom despite the ECJ and European Bank telling him he's taking the piss. I guess the electorate during this period of time but due to FF's policy of spend spend spend and telling us it would all be fine we were none the wiser to what would actually happen.

IMO Lenihan, while failing to save the economy, is by no means to blame for the heap of **** left on their doorstep by the FFers that preceded him. Cowen deserves blame purely for not piping up

I was about to say Mcreevy kept the lid on public finances (that's my recollection anyway) but apparently he

'between the years of 2000 and 2003, boosted public spending by 48pc while cutting income tax'

Hard to defend that now. From his perspective I am sure it was investing in the future but that level of rampant spending is what has put the current noose around our necks.

locomo

McCreevy was to blame for a lot of the rising prices.

The govt and regulator should have keet a better eye on the banks.

Letting in so many polish / eastern europeans all at once helped mess up the housing / rental market too.

Raising government expenditure based on the windfalls from stamp duty also contributed to the bubble...as did continuially extending section 23 + 50 deadlines. Also the failed to be delivered decentralisation f..ked up many country towns as they expected an influx.

I am a friend

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

A lot of people, who dont know better are buying into the media fed popular notion that this is a crisis caused by certain sections of society only.... That is pure ignorance...

99% of people on this island are responsible for this mess - the people who borrowed too much, the people who lent too much, the people who are on the dole for years and have no interest in ever getting a job, the people who have refused jobs as they would be better off on the dole, the single mother who is claiming all the single mother allowances who is living with a partner, the banks for lending too much, the auctioneers for aritifically inflating prices, the trademens who will only do jobs for cash so they dont need to 'declare' it and last but not least the people who have money to pay their loans and are now crying the poor mouth and refusing to do so.... The country is riddled with people who have money and wont pay back their loans cos they think they are getting one over on the Banks by doing so... The sad part is they are only feeding the problem cos the more people default on loans, the more the government need to put into the banks....

Its not rocket science people but blaming one portion of the 'system' is just pure avoidance of the reality.

Morlar

I am a friend wrote: »

A lot of people, who dont know better are buying into the media fed popular notion that this is a crisis caused by certain sections of society only.... That is pure ignorance...

99% of people on this island are responsible for this mess -

What about the people who did not vote FF or Green, never agreed with their policies, didn't overextend with silly mortgages and who work in the private sector and have always worked in the private sector ? Are they in your 99% or your 1% list there ?

I am a friend

Morlar wrote: »

What about the people who did not vote FF or Green, never agreed with their policies, didn't overextend with silly mortgages and who work in the private sector and have always worked in the private sector ? Are they in your 99% or your 1% list there ?

Most likely in the 99% unless they are purer than the Virgin Mary and have never done a 'nixer' or left their motor tax to expire for a few months and gone in to the guards to get it signed off the road, had a second TV in the house no license for it, paid cash for a job to get a better deal etc etc etc. I imagine that only 1% of the population can, hand on heart, say they have NEVER EVER cheated the system on any level.

People think they are clever by cheating the system but the reality is very € you dont declare and every € you take out of the system which is not yours to take is (a) stealing and (b) putting us in the mess we are in...

Just because you work in the private sector doesnt give you a halo (I do too....) and I also refused credit from the banks because I KNEW I COULD NOT REPAY IT. Its all about taking responsibility and right now, Mr Joe Public are thriving in pointing fingers.. The thing to remember about pointing figures is that you have one pointing outwards and 3 pointing back at you.

Fluorescence

The banks are the main culprits - the bubble simply couldn't have been created if they hadn't been lending out borrowed money which they had no way of repaying. Advertising 100% mortgages to anyone who could fill out a form was pure idiocy.

Just behind them is the financial regulator and the government of that time, not doing their respective jobs. Economists were shouting for years and years that the situation was unsustainable, and these people in important positions stuck their fingers in their ears because it suited them short term to ignore the future repercussions.

The current government who decided to bail the banks out without looking fully into what that really entailed are next. Private banks racked up private debts and they should have realised what the consequences of their actions would be. The banks should have been allowed to fall, and while that would have meant a crap life for us for a short while, we would have been better off in the long term; instead our economy is on life support and will die a slow and painful death. Ultimately we'll end up where we would have been 2 years ago if the banks had just been allowed go down the ****ter.

I'm reluctant to blame the idiotic joe soaps who took out mortgages they clearly couldn't afford because they simply couldn't have if the banks didn't supply them. Obviously a bit of common sense and cop-on should have been applied all-round, but the fact is the banks are more to blame than the public. Would you let a child stick his hand into a fire just because he wanted it? No, so why would you let an idiot take out a mortgage he has no way of repaying just because he wants it or thinks it's the right thing to do?

That's my view of the situation anyway for what it's worth . All that said, I think it's time we stop playing the blame game now. We have a problem and we need to come up with positive solutions as a country in order to survive in one piece. Let's forget about the past now and work on our future, because at the end of the day it's all we have.

Sheeps

Check box poll, voted all options.

Biggins

Slight off topic but just watching the current lot speak in the Dail and I never saw them look more they are attending a funeral than ever before!

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/DailFlash512KB.htm

The state of Harney alone. She looks seriously depressed.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Handsome Bob

Looks like Enda has changed his political persona. Gone is the outwardly trembling outraged Enda, in is the quietly intense and furious Enda. :pac:

I am a friend

fluorescence wrote: »

The banks are the main culprits - the bubble simply couldn't have been created if they hadn't been lending out borrowed money which they had no way of repaying.

What about the people who took it, gave false information and knew they couldnt pay it back but wanted it anyway??? Where is our responsibility???

fluorescence wrote: »

Advertising 100% mortgages to anyone who could fill out a form was pure idiocy.

And these were rarely sanctioned and mainly only for professionals or on foot of an inaccurate valuation from an auctioneers. A lot of people also borrowed 90% from the banks and went a borrowed the rest from a credit union and now they are stuck with both payments. When my parents got their house they did up room by room and DID WIHTOUT until they could afford it. People want everything NOW and thats whats happened. They have mortgages, credit union loans for the 10%, car loans, personal loans for the furnmiture and credit cards for the holidays... Reckless borrowing.

fluorescence wrote: »

why would you let an idiot take out a mortgage he has no way of repaying just because he wants it or thinks it's the right thing to do?

A lot of it was lent on the basis of incorrect information e.g. self employed accounts being inflated, your boss writing a letter to say you earned more than you did etc etc

The country is rotten to the core with corruption and there is no point pretending its not...