Who do you blame for the financial mess we're in?

Old_-_School

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

The electroate.

/thread.

ItsAWindUp

For Christ's sake surely the other 100000 threads should suffice without making a new one?!

bonerm

Dem Immigrants.

Einhard

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

You. Because you touch yourself.

godwin

People on the dole.

Gunsfortoys

The IMF.

Handsome Bob

Bertie's government. But I'd really like to throw some of the blame on the clowns who happily voted for him and who think this recession just magically arose over the past 3 years.

bonerm

Hands up who voted for FF in 2007?

Anybody? Nobody? Oh, ok then.

NothingMan

Financial mess . I'm loaded :cool:.

Turtyturd

The Public Sector /public opinion.

dilallio

You forgot "The Financial Regulator"

Xavi6

All of the above, and thankfully the poll allows all to be chosen.

NothingMan

bonerm wrote: »

Hands up who voted for FF in 2007?

Anybody? Nobody? Oh, ok then.

Eh, not me anyway....

<_<
>_>

jimthemental

Xavi6 wrote: »

All of the above, and thankfully the poll allows all to be chosen.

Dammit I didn't realise. I blame FF and the banks. I don't blame developers but I think that they should be crucified anyway.

Browney7

David Drumm and Sean Fitzpatrick

Fighting Irish

The Irish people i.e. the electorate and the house buyers

COYW

I blame the banks coupled with the irish people. A small portion of the blame goes to the major political parties, all of them.

diarmuid05

I blame Bench Marking...

Cookie_Monster

poll currently ads up to 318.18%, LOL

Sofiztikated

It's everyone elses fault, but mine!

Morlar

It depends on what you mean by current problem. The current issue is the difference between how much revenue the state raises and how much it spends. There are specific areas where the bulk of it's spending is out of line with the rest of the world, Dole is comparatively too high (which attracts welfare tourism), minimum wage is comparatively high (making low paid jobs unattractive), public sector levels (including the non front line staff at the HSE) and spending is comparatively high. So re that PART of the problem then the likes of SIPTU have a LOT to answer for. Notwithstanding the whole culture of quangoes and entitlement to public money which is rife in this country. In addition it goes without saying that corrupt banks, brainless egotistical developers and TOTAL lack of any meaningful competent regulation.

The govt oversaw and facilitated all of the above. We (not me personally) voted them in unfortunately.

cleremy jarkson

First and foremost, the Irish people, for
a) electing a government in 2002 and 2007 that had no interest in managing their finances stringently.
b) thinking they could borrow money endlessly without ever having to pay back and then when the time comes for massive cuts in 2008, every group of society goes out and protests because they've gotten used to their undeserved high standard of living. People who took out big mortgages shouldn't deserve any sympathy...they had a choice of renting if they wern't happy with house prices...nobody put a gun to their head to buy if they couldn't afford it. Where's the justice for person A who refrained from buying a nice big house if person B who enjoyed the luxury of owning a 400 grand house gets bailed out when they can't pay, simply because there are more Person B's than Person A's?

Next, the Fianna Fail party itself, for being so absolutely useless between about 2002 and 2010. A bunch of useless pricks who got used to being in power at a time when there was money to shut the electorate up all the time and so never learned how to actually manage a country when choices have to be made.

Next, the opposition parties for never criticising the fact that the government were spending so wrecklessly and in fact, for criticising the government for "not spending enough" following the 2006 budget. Sickening. Where was Pat Rabbitte then?

With regard to the banks/developers...they were just doing what they could ie. milk the economy for all they could get. The banks should have been let fail in September 08 though, and people who invested in Anglo Irish Bank, for instance, should not have been bailed out. Whether they realised it or not, they took a risk by investing their money in the bank and expecting a big return. Don't know what should have happened with the developers but they should have at least been reduced to poverty.

Wagon

The properly developers for their role in absolutely raping the housing market with overpriced gaff's and properties, the banks for giving out mad loans (remember the infamous ad campaign for 100% mortgages aimed at people in their early 20's), Berties's FF for not regulating the bastards and even joining in the mad spending spree and finally Cowen's FF for allowing the bailout of Anglo to go ahead, which we all have to pay for.

I admit, there was some stupid people out there. But i also know they were in the minority. I know we may be Irish but for once, we shouldn't be pointing the fingers at ourselves. Come on, did you look at a house and say "hmm, €350,000 is a LOT for two bedrooms...I KNOW!! I'll pay double that!" No, you probably didn't.

I really wish white collar crime was taken seriously here

steddyeddy

The property developers but more than them the element of nepotisim in the country, brown envelopes and back handers made it easier to get plannng permission than in england. From the government to all the agencys such as fas we live in a extremely corrupt country. You cannot build a long lasting viable economy on corruption.

Einhard

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

Fighting Irish

Wagon wrote: »

The properly developers for their role in absolutely raping the housing market with overpriced gaff's and properties, the banks for giving out mad loans (remember the infamous ad campaign for 100% mortgages aimed at people in their early 20's), Berties's FF for not regulating the bastards and even joining in the mad spending spree and finally Cowen's FF for allowing the bailout of Anglo to go ahead, which we all have to pay for.

I admit, there was some stupid people out there. But i also know they were in the minority. I know we may be Irish but for once, we shouldn't be pointing the fingers at ourselves. Come on, did you look at a house and say "hmm, €350,000 is a LOT for two bedrooms...I KNOW!! I'll pay double that!" No, you probably didn't.

I really wish white collar crime was taken seriously here

eh no

Kasabian

The Financial Regulator is missing from the Poll.
He was also missing during the "bubble".

steddyeddy

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

neither do I

FOXFISH1

I blame the Financial Regulator for not doing his job.
The banks should never have been allowed to give 100% mortgages.

I know the regulator did issue some warnings from time to time about the property market overheating...but the government didn't really listen.

Mc Creevey too....surely he could have done something more intelligent during the celtic tiger years. Surely the government knew that the tax income from the property bubble was never going to last forever......

I think a little of the blame can be apportioned to all of the above...and the financial regulator...who you should add to the poll.

Lux23

Everyone but some are more to blame then others.

TheZohanS

Old_-_School wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that the blame for the current financial crisis is shared amongst most of those mentioned in the poll, but who do you attribute the majority of the blame to?

Jim DeMint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HER2pGdAak

charlie1966

I blame the film The bonfire of the Vanities, but only because it was such a crap film and should be blamed for everything.

In reality we are all to blame. it would take too long a post to itemize why everyone is to blame and I would surely miss some people out of the list. So instead I will just say I am responsible for any mess I get myself into and more importantly I am responsible for getting myself out of said mess.
So to all you whingers of the state of the economy, GROW A SET (that includes both genders) deal with it, life is too short and too precious.

Finally I will just say that I am not speaking from a financially comfortable position, but I am determined not to let this situation get Me down, are any of you?

Here endeth the lesson.

Monty Burnz

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

That will be the Fianna Failure voters. Their tribalism trumps any kind of logic.

up for anything

Me!


What's the capital of Ireland?

About 4 Euros.

obrienie

Just watched RTE News video feed on EU bailout confimation about ten times. I feel sorry for the government in power now, they clearly are in quite a bad position. I think that they are guilthy of only one thing: the inability to interact with their public.

Fianna Fail were given the job of steering this country into the ground. But this was going to happen regardless of what party were in power. The world is crumbling financially and that is a factor seldom mentioned by people who are looking for someone to point the finger at.

The problem in this country, unfortunately, is far more deep routed than a shoddy political framework.

Our public went from struggling to survive in the 80's to addiction problems in the 90's and 00's. Californication took hold and we embraced it. We bought big cars and electric gates. We fell victim to the greatest drug of all: Money.

We can point fingers and gain comfort from the thought that the baddies (Fianna Fail) are out there but they simply are not. It is not the greed of the few, it is the greed of the many. And like all bubbles, no matter how big they get, they always burst.

It is inevitable that Fianna Fail will be kicked out on the heads for they caused "all" of the misery in our lives. And the party that will follow them will also fall victim to the same scrutiny because there simply is nothing that they can do.

Bush pumping, not billions, but trillions into a war for nothing else but oil revenue and control. There simply is no money left people. We have to face the reprocusions.

bladespin

Brian Cowen, full stop.

clived2

greed

obrienie

I have never even voted, I just spent five years in college to find that I cannot get a job. I have as much of a reason to be angry as anyone. But I am not blind.

Sea Sharp

I know the Irish government is mostly to blame but the EU did set the conditions for the mess we're in today. Not that I blame the EU, but I do feel that the following should be in the poll.

The Nice Treaty: This meant that Eastern Europeans could come over here freely which in turn fueled the property bubble.

Monty Burnz

Sea Sharp wrote: »

I know the Irish government is mostly to blame but the EU did set the conditions for the mess we're in today. Not that I blame the EU, but I do feel that the following should be in the poll.

The Nice Treaty: This meant that Eastern Europeans could come over here freely which in turn fueled the property bubble.

If our government did its job and the banks were regulated, this would have just fueled our economy. Britain and other countries had similar influxes of workers, but I don't seem them bankrupt.

steddyeddy

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That will be the Fianna Failure voters. Their tribalism trumps any kind of logic.

you hit the nail on the head, backward primitive tribalism

Sea Sharp

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If our government did its job and the banks were regulated, this would have just fueled our economy. Britain and other countries had similar influxes of workers, but I don't seem them bankrupt.

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

obrienie

Look at every sign posted at the start of everyone of our new roads, all of them have a stamp claiming "Funded by the EU". The Nice Treaty, The Lisbon Treaty...they are just formalising the affair. Put it down in words so to speak, what is already a reality.

We would be in very serious trouble without EU directive. Think of our basic human rights and how they have improved. Homosexuality was de-criminalised after EU criticism. It goes without words that we would be crippled without the EU for issues like export.

As for the Eastern European work argument, it is not the issue. Will an unqualified Eastern European worker get a high paying job over a qualified and educated Irish worker, never heard of that happening to be honest. Most Eastern Europeans looking for work in this country are doing jobs which can be paid cash in hand and so therefore are often menial. This is work that us First World Irish people would have dismissed up to this point. Their lives were like ours in the 50's and 60's, impoverished. And they have reacted like we have always done, we emmigrated.

Monty Burnz

Sea Sharp wrote: »

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

Agreed.

Kimono-Girl

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!


they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

steddyeddy

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

because they were the people who knew what was going on, it was right in front of them, and rather standing up and saying no (or talking for the people) they sat back took their pay increases and did absolutely nothing while FF were screwing us!


they effectively turned a blind eye when we needed them most thus showing their incompetence is as bad as the rest!

Very few people knew the scale of the corruption

neil_hosey

steddyeddy wrote: »

Very few people knew the scale of the corruption

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Einhard wrote: »

I don't really understand how people can blame the opposition parties more than the government for the crisis.

Agreed - methinks we have a few ministers in the mix...

Wibbs

Sea Sharp wrote: »

That's because the UK had the luxury of printing money.
But I agree, the government didn't do its job. However had the Nice treaty not passed, hypothetically our bubble wouldn't have been as bad.

This. I blame our inclusion in the Eurozone.

I hope I'm so very wrong, but I can see the Euro actually failing. We're naturally looking at ourselves as is the world, but lets look elsewhere. Stuff off the front pages for the most part and what may come next. Greeces bailout has hit a few bumps, with Austria recently baulking at how its going.

Look to Portugal http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Portugal-braces-for-market-apf-958639662.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode= the euro did them no favours and after we look vaguely like stabilising the markets will round on them and they're very shaky.

If they stumble Spain is next and if Spain goes it's game over. Their economy is just simply too big to bail out in any meaningful way. As it stands they have a near 20% unemployment rate. That's overall. Among the young between 20 and 30, its nearer 30%. That's not good.

They also had a housing bubble on the back of cheap credit in the early naughties(back to the Euro again). House prices ramped up and we're not talking about some taxi driver thinking he was Alan Sugar and buying a half finished pile in Marbella(pronounced with the L's included). We're talking ordinary Spaniards.

If they look shaky and I really really hope they don't and our bailout starts to tighten belts all over the place. If not then there is a real possibility that the EU's finances could be in a very bad state down the line. Plus sooner or later the citizens of Germany and France and any of the other OK eurozone economies are going to start (understanably) getting pissed off with bailing out others.

Kimono-Girl

neil_hosey wrote: »

does anyone know who actually did? and when?

in my opinion they all did! if they didn't they weren't very good at their job now were they?

the only people who didn't know of the corruption in my opinion are the average joe soaps who have nothing to do with politics...

in my opinion those in the inner circle (FF, FG, Labour, greens,) knew damn well what was going on and the scale of it and are lying through their teeth now to save their careers!

they are all as bad as each other,

in my opinion FF = FG there is virtually no difference between them anymore, the corruption amongst their parties is rife!

its an age old fact "where money and power are found, corruption is not far behind"