Wearing of the Poppy! Should Irish citizens wear it?

Donkey Oaty · 14-11-2010 12:20AM

Nodin wrote: »

.....its not an "undertone" - the funds go to veteran service personnell. All of the world war one people are dead, as far as I know, as are the majority of the WWII vets. Therefore the cash is far more likely to go to a veteran of Iraq, Aden or Egypt than them.

Simple question: if people wore a non-British Legion poppy - so we're only talking about the symbol here, rather than the attached charidee - would your view of it be different in any way?

Nodin · 14-11-2010 12:21AM

K-9 wrote: »

LOL, well played sir!

I don't know, to me I see a contradiction as IRA members involved in atrocities are being remembered by the Easter Lily.

The lily only remembers the 1916 dead. Where the money goes would be your real cause for concern, which is easily solved by not buying one (though theres more than one crowd putting them out - 3, I think).

Misanthrope · 14-11-2010 12:25AM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Simple question: if people wore a non-British Legion poppy - so we're only talking about the symbol here, rather than the attached charidee - would your view of it be different in any way?

I still wouldn't wear it, but it would be good for those who wished to honour the Irish fallen,without financially rewarding the disgusting institution that put them in harms way in the first place.

Nodin · 14-11-2010 12:25AM

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Simple question: if people wore a non-British Legion poppy - so we're only talking about the symbol here, rather than the attached charidee - would your view of it be different in any way?

I've nothing against people honouring the dead of the world wars at all, so no, I've no problem with whatever they want to do.

lmaopml · 14-11-2010 12:28AM

So, let's make a fourth? Let's rob it, and make it actually mean something...

or borrow it, whatever...

Cheers though, I didn't realise this. I thought people were being really petty...

..it's important to know where the money is going for sure!

Misanthrope · 14-11-2010 12:30AM

Eric Bogle put it well,

And I can't help but wonder, now Willie McBride,
Do all those who lie here know why they died?
Did you really believe them when they told you "The Cause?"
Did you really believe that this war would end wars?

Well the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame
The killing, the dying, it was all done in vain,
For Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again

K-9 · 14-11-2010 12:33AM

Nodin wrote: »

The lily only remembers the 1916 dead. Where the money goes would be your real cause for concern, which is easily solved by not buying one (though theres more than one crowd putting them out - 3, I think).

My understanding is it commemorates PIRA members too:

Easter Lily (badge) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is Wiki so if you have a reputable source on it?

Donkey Oaty · 14-11-2010 12:35AM

Nodin wrote: »

I've nothing against people honouring the dead of the world wars at all, so no, I've no problem with whatever they want to do.

That should be our starting point.

For me, on this thread, it's my finishing point, but it's a good finishing point.

Toodle pip, folks.

Nodin · 14-11-2010 12:36AM

K-9 wrote: »

My understanding is it commemorates PIRA members too:

Easter Lily (badge) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is Wiki so if you have a reputable source on it?

No, I won't argue with ye. I always associate it with 1916 specifically, though I was aware the money went to the republican movement.

K-9 · 14-11-2010 12:42AM

Nodin wrote: »

No, I won't argue with ye. I always associate it with 1916 specifically, though I was aware the money went to the republican movement.

So, if somebody wears the poppy to remember WW1 & 2, that would be ok?

Basically, I doubt many wear it to remember the Paras on Bloody Sunday.

Misanthrope · 14-11-2010 12:43AM

I just noticed a lot of brand new Boards members with 0 posts.All joined in the last 24 hrs or so, with nothing to say.Funny how that poll count has been steadily ticking up from 91 since I made a point of it.

If what I suspect might be happening, is, then how sad would that be?Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Mod question: Are there people out there sad enough to create new members for the manipulation of polls?Please tell me I'm being paranoid.

K-9 · 14-11-2010 12:51AM

Misanthrope wrote: »

I just noticed a lot of brand new Boards members with 0 posts.All joined in the last 24 hrs or so, with nothing to say.Funny how that poll count has been steadily ticking up from 91 since I made a point of it.

If what I suspect might be happening, is, then how sad would that be?Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Mod question: Are there people out there sad enough to create new members for the manipulation of polls?Please tell me I'm being paranoid.

It happened on the EU Board in the run up to Lisbon 2. No campaigners from Politics.ie invading! LOL

domkk · 14-11-2010 01:01AM

I have my red poppy wreath on my front door. .

They shall grow not old, as we
that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor
the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning
We will remember them.

Terry · 14-11-2010 01:24AM

round tower huntsman wrote: »

no self respecting irish man would wear a poppy. its a symbol of support for the british war machine. only a quisling would wear one.

So people who wear a poppy are akin to someone who deliberately sold out his own people. So much so that his name became synonymous with being a traitor?
You would include those who had no choice but to go to war, yes?
You would include their families, yes?

I'm sick of the fact that there are 5,000 Jews in Ireland and I'm going to kill them all next week. Are you with me, round tower huntsman?

Nah. Didn't think so.

Posts like yours make me sick.

Einhard · 14-11-2010 01:41AM

Misanthrope wrote: »

The Falklands ruling population is not indigenous.As for Gibralter, Britain took over it and immediately placed it's own people in positions of power and local authority.

There is not, and never was as far as it can be known, an indigenous population on the Falklands. The European settlers who arrived on the island in the 18th century found it uninhabited. So your point is moot. I'd point out also that the ancestors of those in Argentina who now claim the island, did actually displace entire indigenous civilisations. So they are hardly in a position to scream about imperialism when demanding the return of islands are they now? Or is it just British imperialism that you have a problem with?

It's like saying that the Irish people voted for British rule during the Penal Laws.We didn't have a vote remember?And when we did there was no secret ballot and a landlord peering over your shoulder.The people in Ireland affecting policy were,with a couple of exceptions,of English descent and with vested interests in the British empire.
Do you contest this?

Of course I do. It's nonsensical! Nobody is denying that imperialism is wrong, and that Ireland was deprived of her democratic right to self determination until into the 20th century. But that doesn't mean that we should now deny it to others just because we don't like the power to whom they pledge their allegiance. That would be obscene, and no better to how the imperialists you claim to disdain would act. Do you really not see that?

As to your other point, the referenda in Gibraltar and the Falklands were free and fair. There was no issue with them. Indeed, in 2002 the people of Gibraltar voted against a UK/Spanish proposal for joint administration. The election was monitored by Spain and there were no irregularities. If one was to go by your logic, that tainted elections and undemocratic activity in the 19th and early 20th century should guide our reaction to modern elections, then we''d have to dismiss every election in practically every nation in the world, because no country operated free and fair elections at the time.

Or are you going to dodge it under the auspice that it bears no relevance to your chosen line of discussion?

The point about India didn't have anything to do with my argument.

round tower huntsman · 14-11-2010 01:41AM

eh i was just about with you til you went off on a tangent bout jews and ethnic cleansing etc....................

post like yours make me confused!

Wolfe Tone · 14-11-2010 02:45AM

Terry wrote: »

So people who wear a poppy are akin to someone who deliberately sold out his own people. So much so that his name became synonymous with being a traitor?
You would include those who had no choice but to go to war, yes?
You would include their families, yes?

I'm sick of the fact that there are 5,000 Jews in Ireland and I'm going to kill them all next week. Are you with me, round tower huntsman?

Nah. Didn't think so.

Posts like yours make me sick.

Personally Terry, I would regard people who were the Poppy as misguided and uneducated. Just look at this thread, most people think that the poppy is for WW1 dead. They don't realize that it is equally for the black and tans, the BA who died in 1916, etc etc etc.

Having said that, I would not regard that those who do wear it, KNOWING that they are equally commemorating the black and tans, those in Afghanistan, in the North, and yes, those from the Somme, as Irish, in the patriotic sense of the word.

steddyeddy · 14-11-2010 02:47AM

Einhard wrote: »

There is not, and never was as far as it can be known, an indigenous population on the Falklands. The European settlers who arrived on the island in the 18th century found it uninhabited. So your point is moot. I'd point out also that the ancestors of those in Argentina who now claim the island, did actually displace entire indigenous civilisations. So they are hardly in a position to scream about imperialism when demanding the return of islands are they now? Or is it just British imperialism that you have a problem with?

Of course I do. It's nonsensical! Nobody is denying that imperialism is wrong, and that Ireland was deprived of her democratic right to self determination until into the 20th century. But that doesn't mean that we should now deny it to others just because we don't like the power to whom they pledge their allegiance. That would be obscene, and no better to how the imperialists you claim to disdain would act. Do you really not see that?

The point about India didn't have anything to do with my argument.

it had a lot to do with the thread and the british empire though, when I mentioned imperialism I mentioned india never the falk lands and by the way the falklands were occupied previously

K-9 · 14-11-2010 03:01AM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Personally Terry, I would regard people who were the Poppy as misguided and uneducated. Just look at this thread, most people think that the poppy is for WW1 dead. They don't realize that it is equally for the black and tans, the BA who died in 1916, etc etc etc.

Having said that, I would not regard that those who do wear it, KNOWING that they are equally commemorating the black and tans, those in Afghanistan, in the North, and yes, those from the Somme, as Irish, in the patriotic sense of the word.

Many could use a similar defence for the Easter Lily.

They don't know it commemorates atrocities during the Troubles and is offensive to some people.

We really need a new symbol, maybe in the run up to 2016 we might get agreement on it!

PS. many who fought in the Somme did so for patriotic reasons. They mightn't be your patriotic reasons, but still patriotic all the same.

Einhard · 14-11-2010 03:15AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

it had a lot to do with the thread and the british empire though, when I mentioned imperialism I mentioned india never the falk lands and by the way the falklands were occupied previously

There was no indigenous population in the Falklands prior to the 18th century. But that's beside the point. If you believe in democratic principles, then you have to agree with the principle of self-determination as exercised by the islanders, and their counterparts in Gibraltar.

P_1 · 14-11-2010 03:25AM

Ah sure we read British magazines and newspapers.
We watch British television shows.
We shop in British shops.
We follow British football teams.

We may as well follow British customs like wearing the Poppy.

Sure it would be rude not to.

Wolfe Tone · 14-11-2010 03:32AM

K-9 wrote: »

Many could use a similar defence for the Easter Lily.

They don't know it commemorates atrocities during the Troubles and is offensive to some people.

We really need a new symbol, maybe in the run up to 2016 we might get agreement on it!

PS. many who fought in the Somme did so for patriotic reasons. They mightn't be your patriotic reasons, but still patriotic all the same.

Easter Lily is no big deal to me, I have never worn one.

fonecrusher1 · 14-11-2010 03:35AM

pithater1 wrote: »

Ah sure we read British magazines and newspapers.
We watch British television shows.
We shop in British shops.
We follow British football teams.

We may as well follow British customs like wearing the Poppy.

Sure it would be rude not to.

Nope.
Not really.
Not really. I prefer Dunne Stores. I might go into tescos the odd time.
Nope.

Speak for yourself.

P_1 · 14-11-2010 03:38AM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Nope.
Not really.
Not really. I prefer Dunne Stores. I might go into tescos the odd time.
Nope.

Speak for yourself.

Sarcasm detector on the blink?

14-11-2010 03:44AM

Why won't this thread just feckin die?

steddyeddy · 14-11-2010 03:50AM

Einhard wrote: »

There was no indigenous population in the Falklands prior to the 18th century. But that's beside the point. If you believe in democratic principles, then you have to agree with the principle of self-determination as exercised by the islanders, and their counterparts in Gibraltar.

eh yes I never disagreed with it but my point is for the most time the british empire has been un democratric eg. india ect

fonecrusher1 · 14-11-2010 03:53AM

pithater1 wrote: »

Sarcasm detector on the blink?

No it seems to be working fine. Maybe your humour meter is fcuked.:pac:

Misanthrope · 14-11-2010 03:55AM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

No it seems to be working fine. Maybe your humour meter is fcuked.:pac:

Very good:D

MyKeyG · 14-11-2010 05:05AM

pithater1 wrote: »

Ah sure we read British magazines and newspapers.
We watch British television shows.
We shop in British shops.
We follow British football teams.

We may as well follow British customs like wearing the Poppy.

Sure it would be rude not to.

We also read Irish Newspapers
We also watch Irish television shows
We also shop in Irish shops
We also follow Irish teams

I refuse to observe British military achievements until we start to sincerely consider some of our own.

KeithAFC · 14-11-2010 10:09AM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Nope.
Not really.
Not really. I prefer Dunne Stores. I might go into tescos the odd time.
Nope.

Speak for yourself.

You don't watch british shows on British TV like the BBC?

Wearing of the Poppy! Should Irish citizens wear it?

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