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Wearing of the Poppy! Should Irish citizens wear it?

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Comments

  • #512
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    do you know what the term polar refers to?

    It had nothing to do with my post!!


  • #513
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Einhard wrote: »
    It had nothing to do with my post!!

    my replying to your post about the british empire with a post about the british empire had no relevance. well if you dont see it you dont see it


  • #514
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Misanthrope wrote: »
    What exactly do you mean by discrimination in this context?Mere criticism, or something beyond that.

    Maybe "prejudice" is a better word than "discrimination".

    I saw a guy take his kids into Macdonalds today, therefore he is condoning torture, war in Afghanistan, etc.

    That's prejudice.

    You could make a case that the profits contribute to those things, but I suspect he didn't go in there with that agenda.

    I'm not having a go at you, Misanthrope, just saying that those who wear the poppy deserve better than some of the name-calling that has gone on here.


  • #515
    PARKHEAD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭PARKHEAD67


    Einhard wrote: »
    It's the general belligerent attitude that *some* who dislike the poppy have. That anyone who wears one is a traitor or a West Brit etc. It's pretty pathetic really. I can understand why some people might have a personal issue with them, but to resort to that kind of idiotic generalisation is ridiculous.
    READ UP ON IRISH HISTORY MATE.BLOODY, BLOODY POPPIES.INNOCENT BLOOD DRIPPING OFF EVERY BLOODY POPPY.


  • #516
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    Einhard wrote: »
    It had nothing to do with my post!!

    Good God. You said Gibraltor and the Falklands got to vote democratically to remain part of Britain, he said India and the slave's didn't get that option. So have you a response to that point or can we drop it?


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  • #517
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »

    I saw a guy take his kids into Macdonalds today, therefore he is condoning torture, war in Afghanistan, etc.

    Ronald McDonald is torturing people in Afghanistan??? You learn something new every day.


  • #518
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    Ronald McDonald is torturing people in Afghanistan??? You learn something new every day.

    Their profits go back to the USA in some form or another.

    The USA under George Bush condoned waterboarding.

    People why buy McDonalds burgers are not torturers, but you could construe an argument to say that they are condoning torture.


  • #519
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    People why buy McDonalds burgers are not torturers, but you could construe an argument to say that they are condoning torture.

    No you can't thats a ridiculous point to make. By your reasoning any one who has ever bought anything or paid tax is condoning torture.


  • #520
    The Aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    In before lock...


    im glad i this train wreck...

    its like ground hog day...


  • #521
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    K-9 wrote: »
    Enniskillen, Warrington, Shankhill etc.

    Whats that to do with anything?
    Einhard wrote:
    It's the general belligerent attitude that *some* who dislike the poppy have. That anyone who wears one is a traitor or a West Brit etc. .

    I'd suggest taking it up with specific posters....


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  • #522
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    By your reasoning any one who has ever bought anything or paid tax is condoning torture.

    No. According to other people's reasoning on this thread, yes.


  • #523
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    No. According to other people's reasoning on this thread, yes.

    Not at all. Buying a poppy means funds are going towards veterans of the British services. Thats a direct link. I accept people who buy the thing don't realise exactly that, but thats neither here nor there - they should.


  • #524
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Maybe "prejudice" is a better word than "discrimination".

    I saw a guy take his kids into Macdonalds today, therefore he is condoning torture, war in Afghanistan, etc.

    That's prejudice.

    You could make a case that the profits contribute to those things, but I suspect he didn't go in there with that agenda.

    I'm not having a go at you, Misanthrope, just saying that those who wear the poppy deserve better than some of the name-calling that has gone on here.

    I get you.Many people who wear it in Ireland are just following others and do not know the reality of what lies behind it.I don't think any name-calling is directed at them.
    It is the people who know exactly what it stands for and keep pushing it in our faces,(usually with a good dose of name calling) who find themselves recipients of insults.
    I've had a variety of aspersions, insinuations and insults sent my way because of my view on this.My opening remark in this thread was to herald their right to wear the poppy.My disapproval is not prejudiced.I didn't pre judge them.I've listened to their side of the argument and I think they are wrong.

    While I'm reluctant to endorse a majority for the majority's sake,the poll is there for a reason,and as far as AH goes,speaks for itself.

    I expect as is frequent with polls in here that some people will retort that such an outcome is reflective of the lowly calibre of poster/human being etc that lurks in AH.I can't get such people a good deal on fresh panes for their glasshouses.;)


  • #525
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    I think the poppy could be personalised and dyed green for the day that's in it. I have no problem remembering 'war' dead etc. I have ancestors that died in the war. Irish ones.

    I think it's kinda 'precious' to believe that it's only something that the Brits or whatever should do or a tradition that should be abhorred etc. and we should just ignore it or think it's making a huge politcal statement other than 'remembrance'. I read just lately about somebody mentioning dying the poppy for the day...

    Dye it green and wear it...''Remembrance with a 'twist'':cool:


  • #526
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not at all. Buying a poppy means funds are going towards veterans of the British services. Thats a direct link. I accept people who buy the thing don't realise exactly that, but thats neither here nor there - they should.

    Well, that's the thread in a nutshell. For the wearers, that's not necessarily what it's about.


  • #527
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Well, that's the thread in a nutshell. For the wearers, that's not necessarily what it's about.

    I'd wish they cop on where the funds go to.


  • #528
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    Yeah, I should read the thread really. I didn't know that Nodin! I thought it just went to charity..

    Maybe we could adopt the green version that does? lol..

    Ye learn something everyday, even on AH's!


  • #529
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Nodin wrote: »
    Whats that to do with anything?

    The Easter Lily is hardly a blood free symbol either.

    I assume you have a problem with it too?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #530
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    Good God. You said Gibraltor and the Falklands got to vote democratically to remain part of Britain, he said India and the slave's didn't get that option. So have you a response to that point or can we drop it?

    I pointed out that the current inhabitants of Gibraltar and the Falklands, wish to remain part of Britain. That has nothing at all to do with India being denied that same democratic freedom in the 19th and 20 centuries. It's a pretty simple train of though to follow.


  • #531
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    The Aussie wrote: »
    In before lock...


    im glad i insert verb here this train wreck...

    its like ground hog day...

    I'm guessing it's "found" or "caused"


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  • #532
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Nodin wrote: »


    I'd suggest taking it up with specific posters....

    I did. I made the point in relation a specific post. As I said, I've no problem with those who dislike the wearing of the poppy, jst with those who do so in a belligerent manner, and cast aspersions on others merely because they don't conform to their own ideas and notions.


  • #533
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    K-9 wrote: »
    The Easter Lily is hardly a blood free symbol either.

    I assume you have a problem with it too?

    That's defo a point worth making!

    Maybe it's a good thing to understand where the funds go for the symbols we wear sometimes..even if we wear them innocently at times or for sypathetic reasons. Good point!


  • #534
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    K-9 wrote: »
    The Easter Lily is hardly a blood free symbol either.

    I assume you have a problem with it too?

    I've a problem with imperialism. I'm not a pacifist.


  • #535
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Einhard wrote: »
    I did. I made the point in relation a specific post. As I said, I've no problem with those who dislike the wearing of the poppy, jst with those who do so in a belligerent manner, and cast aspersions on others merely because they don't conform to their own ideas and notions.

    Judging by the poll above,if we had a democratic vote on whether it should be worn or not, I don't think the pro poppy crowd would fare very well.That'd be in a democratic situation though.


  • #536
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Einhard wrote: »
    I did. I made the point in relation a specific post. As I said, I've no problem with those who dislike the wearing of the poppy, jst with those who do so in a belligerent manner, and cast aspersions on others merely because they don't conform to their own ideas and notions.

    I'm not sure if you referring to my earlier post but i object supporting the welfare of soldiers who murdered innocents in the 70's from mothers to Catholic priests to kids where said soldiers got off scot-free. Hope you understand this post.


  • #537
    round tower huntsman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭round tower huntsman


    no self respecting irish man would wear a poppy. its a symbol of support for the british war machine. only a quisling would wear one.


  • #538
    lmaopml
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    Nodin wrote: »
    I've a problem with imperialism. I'm not a pacifist.

    I don't like imperialism either, but neither do I like ott rejection of symbols like they represent anything other than remembering something, like war dead etc. whether it's got secondary 'imperial' undertones is besides the point that Irish people died too! How to remember them properly? Well then be an activist and dye it green, make it our own. Simple...and funds go to charity instead of veterans...


  • #539
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Nodin wrote: »
    I've a problem with imperialism. I'm not a pacifist.

    LOL, well played sir!

    I don't know, to me I see a contradiction as IRA members involved in atrocities are being remembered by the Easter Lily.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #540
    Misanthrope
    Closed Accounts Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Misanthrope


    Einhard wrote: »
    I pointed out that the current inhabitants of Gibraltar and the Falklands, wish to remain part of Britain. That has nothing at all to do with India being denied that same democratic freedom in the 19th and 20 centuries. It's a pretty simple train of though to follow.

    Many of the inhabitants and certainly the influentials amongst them are supplanted in those lands, from where?Britain.

    The Falklands ruling population is not indigenous.As for Gibralter, Britain took over it and immediately placed it's own people in positions of power and local authority.

    It's like saying that the Irish people voted for British rule during the Penal Laws.We didn't have a vote remember?And when we did there was no secret ballot and a landlord peering over your shoulder.The people in Ireland affecting policy were,with a couple of exceptions,of English descent and with vested interests in the British empire.
    Do you contest this?

    Or are you going to dodge it under the auspice that it bears no relevance to your chosen line of discussion?


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  • #541
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    lmaopml wrote: »
    I don't like imperialism either, but neither do I like ott rejection of symbols like they represent anything other than remembering something, like war dead etc. whether it's got secondary 'imperial' undertones is besides the point that Irish people died too! How to remember them properly? Well then be an activist and dye it green, make it our own. Simple...and funds go to charity instead of veterans...

    .....its not an "undertone" - the funds go to veteran service personnell. All of the world war one people are dead, as far as I know, as are the majority of the WWII vets. Therefore the cash is far more likely to go to a veteran of Iraq, Aden or Egypt than them.
    The Royal British Legion is the UK’s leading charity providing financial, social and emotional support to millions who have served or are currently serving in the Armed Forces, and their dependants. Thanks to our supporters, we are able to provide the folllowing essential services.
    http://www.poppy.org.uk/make-a-difference


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