We Deserve Everything Coming to Us

OPENROAD · 09-11-2010 10:03PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Was that really their slogan ? [ Genuine question, because I'd have answered "no" since Ireland was losing everything that made it worthwhile and turning into a sickeningly profit-and-career-focussed society, with no sense of family or community ]

Maybe I didn't notice because their logo was small; and that would explain why loads of their "supporters" didn't even know they were supporting FF.

I mean, why else would that "party" have thought it to their advantage to make the logos smaller ?

Was that not for the Lisbon treaty as opposed to the last election, after all the general feeling in the country at that time was Ireland were heading for a small recession.

Dorcha · 09-11-2010 10:11PM

montane wrote: »

Majority of people I know were FF supporters, of course they dont speak of that now.

:pac:

Poor you. You're obviously hanging out with the wrong sort of people.

I may as well say it on this thread as on another, but many, many, many years ago, I asked a girl I knew who she was going to vote for and she said Fianna Fail. I asked her why and she said because they were going to win. I wonder how many people vote that way - vote for the favourites, like all those people who support teams because they are winning? This is a poor state of affairs.

Sprouts · 09-11-2010 10:21PM

Did we give out all our spare cheese or have we some left in central bank?

montane · 09-11-2010 10:27PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Was that really their slogan ? [ Genuine question, because I'd have answered "no" since Ireland was losing everything that made it worthwhile and turning into a sickeningly profit-and-career-focussed society, with no sense of family or community ]

Maybe I didn't notice because their logo was small; and that would explain why loads of their "supporters" didn't even know they were supporting FF.

I mean, why else would that "party" have thought it to their advantage to make the logos smaller ?

As far as I recall yes. I remember Matt Cooper talking about that specific slogan in 2007 after Bertie was returned, and how it had been so effective for FF. Most people still had their jobs, comfortable living etc.

People who knew what was coming down the tracks of course knew that Ireland was losing everything, as you say, but they were still widely dismissed as renegade prophets of doom (Morgan Kelly, McWilliams, etc). Shortly after we had the whole "soft-landing" line from various vested interests and government representatives. Interesting to see Tom Parlon has now completely disappeared off the airwaves.

I also recall vividly that less than two months after the FF victory, the first Department of Finance reports were released which showed massively diminishing revenues to the exchequer, and thinking how strategically the government had played it in delaying their release.

Also don't forget that Bertie deliberately held the election on a Thursday despite huge protest from student representative organisations. Most students were studying for exams at that time of year, and could not make it home to vote. They would have easily been able to cast their vote up to 10pm had it been on a Friday, as was widely called for.

Humans eh! · 09-11-2010 10:36PM

Sprouts wrote: »

Did we give out all our spare cheese or have we some left in central bank?

I'm holding on for the Post Budget "Cheese Scrappage Scheme"

Augmerson · 09-11-2010 10:39PM

^ Some conniving pack of bastards really. Tom Parlon is now.. ... or was anyway, the head of the Construction Federation of Ireland.

scientific1982 · 09-11-2010 10:59PM

No we ****ing dont deserve everything coming to us. The older generation who went away to work and sent money home to keep this country afloat during hard times dont. Ordinary people who work their asses of to make ends meet dont. The elderly, the terminally ill and people with special needs dont. Thousands of young men and women trying to educate themselves for a better life dont.

Liam Byrne · 09-11-2010 11:08PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Was that not for the Lisbon treaty as opposed to the last election, after all the general feeling in the country at that time was Ireland were heading for a small recession.

Local elections held at the same time.

OPENROAD · 09-11-2010 11:10PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Local elections held at the same time.

Yes but I'm sure the small logo thing arose during the Lisbon Treaty not back in 2007.

montane · 09-11-2010 11:12PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Yes but I'm sure the small logo thing arose during the Lisbon Treaty not back in 2007.

You are correct.

Augmerson · 09-11-2010 11:27PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

No we ****ing dont deserve everything coming to us. The older generation who went away to work and sent money home to keep this country afloat during hard times dont. Ordinary people who work their asses of to make ends meet dont. The elderly, the terminally ill and people with special needs dont. Thousands of young men and women trying to educate themselves for a better life dont.

We do and we don't imo. Plenty of people had no hand in this, plenty of honest, decent hard-working people. Our youth and also the elderly, your right there. But where I feel we sealed our own fate is; we didn't exactly do a whole lot to change the course of events now did we? Not that much could have been done post 2007, but we could have done something if we were more politically conscious and aware.

I have been thinking alot though about since I first put this thread up. I think I should speak about it and just say where I stand on things: I feel we are about to get an awful hiding, we deserve as much because we let muppets walk all over us and make insane decisions, which regardless of hindsight were questionable, but I do not feel that the general population was responsible for the bubble or the burst. I don't think everybody was on the take, we were all greedy and irresponsible. Plenty of people out there knew a fall was coming but it amounts to nothing if we don't make our voices heard. The recession was going to be bad, but it might not have been so bad if we all did something. I feel awful about that.

I would compare it to the rise of Nazi Germany. Surely there were decent, level-headed, sensible, compassionate and tolerant people in Germany in the 1920s and 30s that, if they rounded together, could have stopped the rise of Hitler and the Nazi's. I know, it's kind of stupid to make the comparison because how the **** where those people supposed to know what was going to happen? But the point I want to try and make is democracy is only strong if the population is an active part in it and not just when it comes down to election day. Does that make any sense?

Kernel · 09-11-2010 11:27PM

Globalisation = redistribution of wealth and a serious re-adjustment of western capitalism leading to a possible collapse. I told people this for years now, and was labelled a communist conspiracy theorist for my troubles.

The IMF will enter Ireland and we will all eat a huge 5hit sandwich; force-fed to us by our globalist/EU elite overlords. We are, after all, peons in the grander scheme of things.

Everyone who listened to the conspiracy theorists advice about getting out of debt and buying gold/silver will be doing alright.

scientific1982 · 09-11-2010 11:32PM

Kernel wrote: »

Globalisation = redistribution of wealth and a serious re-adjustment of western capitalism leading to a possible collapse. I told people this for years now, and was labelled a communist conspiracy theorist for my troubles.

The IMF will enter Ireland and we will all eat a huge 5hit sandwich; force-fed to us by our globalist/EU elite overlords. We are, after all, peons in the grander scheme of things.

Everyone who listened to the conspiracy theorists advice about getting out of debt and buying gold/silver will be doing alright.

If Ireland goes, British banks will take a massive hit. After Ireland, Portugal will be next and Spain is in big trouble herself. We'll be in good company.

Kernel · 09-11-2010 11:36PM

Augmerson wrote: »

I would compare it to the rise of Nazi Germany. Surely there were decent, level-headed, sensible, compassionate and tolerant people in Germany in the 1920s and 30s that, if they rounded together, could have stopped the rise of Hitler and the Nazi's. I

The situation we are in now was similar to the one that Germany was in at the time of the rise of right-wing national socialism. It fixed a broken Germany. I could see a situation in Ireland whereby a right wing party could take hold.

punchdrunk · 09-11-2010 11:37PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

If Ireland goes, British banks will take a massive hit. After Ireland, Portugal will be next and Spain is in big trouble herself. We'll be in good company.

omelettes (we'll supply the cheese) and Guinness all round!

Kernel · 09-11-2010 11:38PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

If Ireland goes, British banks will take a massive hit. After Ireland, Portugal will be next and Spain is in big trouble herself. We'll be in good company.

Indeed, and all will go to Red China with begging bowls in hand (Portugal and Britain already). Interesting how quickly the demon rise of global corporate capitalism has changed things around.

I wonder is our currency lent to us by a consortium of private banks, just like the US Federal Reserve?

Augmerson · 09-11-2010 11:44PM

Kernel wrote: »

The situation we are in now was similar to the one that Germany was in at the time of the rise of right-wing national socialism. It fixed a broken Germany. I could see a situation in Ireland whereby a right wing party could take hold.

Christ Almighty. The centre-right got us here. The absolute right? Imagine the damage they could do.

Still though, national war of liberation to regain control of the North? Then Rockall?

OPENROAD · 09-11-2010 11:45PM

Kernel wrote: »

Indeed, and all will go to Red China with begging bowls in hand (Portugal and Britain already). Interesting how quickly the demon rise of global corporate capitalism has changed things around.

I wonder is our currency lent to us by a consortium of private banks, just like the US Federal Reserve?

How does winning business contracts equate to going with begging bowls in hand?

squod · 09-11-2010 11:46PM

Kernel wrote: »

Indeed, and all will go to Red China with begging bowls in hand (Portugal and Britain already). Interesting how quickly the demon rise of global corporate capitalism has changed things around.

I wonder is our currency lent to us by a consortium of private banks, just like the US Federal Reserve?

looks likely.

Kernel · 09-11-2010 11:54PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

How does winning business contracts equate to going with begging bowls in hand?

It's a cynical way of looking at the scramble to China for 'business contracts'. The point I'm making is how quickly that China came from a situation whereby they could not feed their own population, to the current globalisation agenda largely created by the basic need of corporate capitalism to maximise profit. In simple terms, they have all the money and none of the debt that the west have, and they got a large chunk of that money, from us (the west).

My old job is gone to China, where a guy will work ridiculous hours/conditions for money we cannot compete with. Human rights etc. mean little when you exist solely to increase profits - therein lies the flaw in our current model. Unless we wait it out for another 50 years or so, by which time it is possible that we will be the third world nations and the corporations will return to pillage our labour.

ulinbac · 10-11-2010 12:00AM

Whatever happened, its done. IMF/ECB will be here by April as the NTMA will go looking for money on the bond markets in Feb/March and won't get it. The budget will pass in December, followed by a quick dissolving of the dail and fine gael will come in. They will spend the 1st 6months giving out as the country's finances crumble and as we reach rock-bottom only then wil the recovery start.

The sooner the better and things can be fixed. Might even be beneficial to get some inefficiencies out of the system, like teachers who can't teach!

Emigration will benefit as those who return may come back with world class skills that they would not get here. This will lead to starting business' creating jobs etc. If anyone wants to leave they can (I will be joining them) and hopefully they will return and create something better than if they stayed.

The bailout won't be the apocalypse either. We will see a steady increase in taxes over a few years and cuts until we are back in shape. Has to be done.

scientific1982 · 10-11-2010 12:10AM

Fast forward to 13:10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0nyR8pZaEg

hypervalve · 10-11-2010 12:22AM

There's nothing depressing about Eireanns fair Isle, from the lakes of Killarney to the wind-lashed wilderness of Donegal tis gods country indeed and she will be great again. Those of us who stayed to brave the bad times and drag this country out of the mire are truly Irelands sons.

scientific1982 · 10-11-2010 12:22AM

ulinbac wrote: »

Whatever happened, its done. IMF/ECB will be here by April as the NTMA will go looking for money on the bond markets in Feb/March and won't get it. The budget will pass in December, followed by a quick dissolving of the dail and fine gael will come in. They will spend the 1st 6months giving out as the country's finances crumble and as we reach rock-bottom only then wil the recovery start.

The sooner the better and things can be fixed. Might even be beneficial to get some inefficiencies out of the system, like teachers who can't teach!

Emigration will benefit as those who return may come back with world class skills that they would not get here. This will lead to starting business' creating jobs etc. If anyone wants to leave they can (I will be joining them) and hopefully they will return and create something better than if they stayed.

The bailout won't be the apocalypse either. We will see a steady increase in taxes over a few years and cuts until we are back in shape. Has to be done.

Yeah everything will be cool and we'll be back to normal in no time.

ulinbac · 10-11-2010 12:25AM

scientific1982 wrote: »

Yeah everything will be cool and we'll be back to normal in no time.

I didn't say that, read again!

We Deserve Everything Coming to Us

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