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god come on

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    #122
    the purple tin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    Do atheists celebrate Christmas?
    Do they go out on the lash on Paddies day?
    Do atheists dream of electric sheep?


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    #123
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Jakkass wrote: »
    In the vast majority of communist states, eradicating religion was seen as a prerequisite for imposing communism on a country. Look at North Korea, China, Cambodia amongst numerous other examples. The history of the 20th century tells you all you need to know about it.

    State atheism was a key and necessary component in Communist systems in practice.

    The objective of those regimes was to replace the power of the church and its say in people lives with the regime and leader worship.

    Kim Jong Il for example uses his dead predecessor as a figure of worship, Stalin did the same with Lenin.

    The modern day secularist movement in the western world has no parallel with these regimes and their objectives.


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    #124
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    the purple tin wrote: »
    Do atheists celebrate Christmas?
    Do they go out on the lash on Paddies day?
    Do atheists dream of electric sheep?

    Yes on 2 of 3, do I win a prize? :D


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    #125
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    Well your beliefs are stupid, what do you expect? Your ideas and their quality are a direct reflection on you.
    Excuse me? You have no right to judge me or my beliefs seeing as you neither know me nor my beliefs.
    Disagreeing with your beliefs does not equate to idiocy no matter what you may wish to believe. That's superiority and downright rudeness.

    If people are coming across as arrogant, its probably because the abuse rules are forcing them to respond to you in a manner other than 'you are an idiot' while sufficiently getting their message across.
    Attacking people who you do not even know purely because they do not share your beliefs? Veiled or not, it's still a personal insult.

    Atheists in general (But not all) seem to have a fondness to lace their posts with thinly veiled insults and sarcasm as well as the obligatory tone of smugness and oddly enough a holier-than-thou attitude.


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    #126
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Stercus Accidit: Very much like the Bill Maher / Christopher Hitchens approach of referring to it as a religion. Personally, I don't buy it. The facts are that state atheism was imposed, so in a sense it was in part, even if not in whole in the name of atheism. Likewise, the Crusades were not wholly about religion, but about power and wealth. Yet they were still done in the name of Catholicism.


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    #127
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    Well your beliefs are stupid, what do you expect? Your ideas and their quality are a direct reflection on you.

    If people are coming across as arrogant, its probably because the abuse rules are forcing them to respond to you in a manner other than 'you are an idiot' while sufficiently getting their message across.

    What a fantastic and well thought out argument. Bravo. You have convinced me to join the religion of bigoted aethiesm. Anyone who needs to resort to abuse in order to respond to an argument could really do with some anger management courses.


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    #128
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Stercus Accidit: Very much like the Bill Maher / Christopher Hitchens approach of referring to it as a religion. Personally, I don't buy it. The facts are that state atheism was imposed, so in a sense it was in part, even if not in whole in the name of atheism. Likewise, the Crusades were not wholly about religion, but about power and wealth. Yet they were still done in the name of Catholicism.

    No they were done using the name of Catholicism. The principles of the religion were twisted. Much like the muslim terrorists of today do the same.


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    #129
    cypharius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭cypharius


    Oh great, this thread again.


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    #130
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Stercus Accidit: Very much like the Bill Maher / Christopher Hitchens approach of referring to it as a religion. Personally, I don't buy it. The facts are that state atheism was imposed, so in a sense it was in part, even if not in whole in the name of atheism. Likewise, the Crusades were not wholly about religion, but about power and wealth. Yet they were still done in the name of Catholicism.

    I agree with you and wouldn't blame religion inherently for any of these events, it was simply a tool used by corrupt and greedy men. The leader worship is just a different tool, a rival propaganda to theistic religion as I see it, but both preclude democracy and rationality, they are tools of oppression.


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    #131
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Jakkass wrote: »
    In the vast majority of communist states, eradicating religion was seen as a prerequisite for imposing communism on a country. Look at North Korea, China, Cambodia amongst numerous other examples. The history of the 20th century tells you all you need to know about it.

    State atheism was a key and necessary component in Communist systems in practice.

    Edit: As a teenager, I loved leftist politics. However, as time went on I decided to be a Christian. I found the further left I went, the more incompatible it was becoming with Christianity, or the more I encountered people who were hostile to Christianity.
    If eradicating religion is necessary to impose communism then surely those people are doing it in the name of communism, rather than atheism?

    Again, I don't see how communism is an atheist movement, when it's not just atheists involved! Robert Mugabe is a Catholic and a Marxist for instance.

    As for Cambodia, Prince Norodom Sihanouk said of Pol Pot.
    Pol Pot does not believe in God but he thinks that heaven, destiny, wants him to guide Cambodia in the way he thinks it the best for Cambodia, that is to say, the worst. Pol Pot is mad, you know, like Hitler.

    Some people are just bat **** crazy.


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    #132
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    k_mac wrote: »
    What a fantastic and well thought out argument. Bravo. You have convinced me to join the religion of bigoted aethiesm. Anyone who needs to resort to abuse in order to respond to an argument could really do with some anger management courses.

    I'm just expressing an opinion, I am entitled to my beliefs aren't I?

    If I want to be a bit un-pc I can be, I am not an ambassador of any description :P


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    #133
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I agree with you and wouldn't blame religion inherently for any of these events, it was simply a tool used by corrupt and greedy men. The leader worship is just a different tool, a rival propaganda to theistic religion as I see it, but both preclude democracy and rationality, they are tools of oppression.

    I believe that the human condition is fallen, therefore I can expect such acts from humans (in general) whether they are atheists or Christians. That's why I seek something higher than the average in human existence. Over the past nearly 4 years now, I've been walking with God, and it's been a thoroughly humbling experience to know that despite the fact that I am a broken vessel of a person, He has restored me for His purposes, and indeed longs to do the same in the lives of others.

    Mankind screws up. I've screwed up. We've screwed up. Nobody hasn't screwed up. This is no different if you are an atheist. In fact this was a huge realisation of mine that led the way to my coming to believe.


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    #134
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Excuse me? You have no right to judge me or my beliefs seeing as you neither know me nor my beliefs.
    Disagreeing with your beliefs does not equate to idiocy no matter what you may wish to believe. That's superiority and downright rudeness.

    I've seen enough of your posts and their style to form an opinion, a belief if you will, don't judge me or my beliefs!

    Attacking people who you do not even know purely because they do not share your beliefs? Veiled or not, it's still a personal insult.

    Atheists in general (But not all) seem to have a fondness to lace their posts with thinly veiled insults and sarcasm as well as the obligatory tone of smugness and oddly enough a holier-than-thou attitude.

    I'm an absolute bollocks because I want to be, atheism didn't force me to be! I'm not the one describing large demographics of people as being 'arrogant' and then lepping onto the high horse once I get some flak back. So far I have expressed an opinion on your opinion only and expressed one of my own.


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    #135
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I'm just expressing an opinion, I am entitled to my beliefs aren't I?

    If I want to be a bit un-pc I can be, I am not an ambassador of any description :P

    You're entitled to your beliefs but noone else is? Calling someone stupid is not an opinion its just an insult.


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    #136
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I believe that the human condition is fallen, therefore I can expect such acts from humans (in general) whether they are atheists or Christians. That's why I seek something higher than the average in human existence.

    I agree with you there, men are inherently driven to dominate and succeed, some are less scrupulous than others and some go to extremes with that that could be described as evil. I see it as a human trait, a pack mammals desire to reproduce, be safe, be powerful, to have food and other possessions.
    Over the past nearly 4 years now, I've been walking with God, and it's been a thoroughly humbling experience to know that despite the fact that I am a broken vessel of a person, He has restored me for His purposes, and indeed longs to do the same in the lives of others.

    Mankind screws up. I've screwed up. We've screwed up. Nobody hasn't screwed up. This is no different if you are an atheist. In fact this was a huge realisation of mine that led the way to my coming to believe.

    This is where we differ then, I don't have the belief in a god, I couldn't force myself to, the notion and origins of these religions just don't convince me at all.
    My response is to seek my own happiness based on the reality of the world as I assess it, to base my decisions on that reality, to maintain an open mind and always assume I could be wrong.
    The morals I have are based on a balance of self interest and empathy, I think I have a good middle ground.


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    #137
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    k_mac wrote: »
    You're entitled to your beliefs but noone else is? Calling someone stupid is not an opinion its just an insult.

    They are entitled to them, and surely I am also entitled to call a spade a spade if I see it has a handle and is used to dig? My rudeness is more thinly veiled than the people its directed at, but they seem plenty 'arrogant' at times themselves, but aren't as good at hiding it as they may think.


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    #138
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I agree with you there, men are inherently driven to dominate and succeed, some are less scrupulous than others and some go to extremes with that that could be described as evil. I see it as a human trait, a pack mammals desire to reproduce, be safe, be powerful, to have food and other possessions.

    People tend to have the notion that mankind will get better and better in action over time. I just don't know about this. Mankind is inherently evil as I see it. The heart of man is inclined towards selfishness, hatred, greed, and lust. Every individual knows this. I know that my heart is attuned to this kind of thinking.

    There is a famous saying "There is nothing new under the sun". I totally agree with it, if you look at the news between one week and the next humans have continued to act in an evil manner towards eachother.
    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    This is where we differ then, I don't have the belief in a god, I couldn't force myself to, the notion and origins of these religions just don't convince me at all.
    My response is to seek my own happiness based on the reality of the world as I assess it, to base my decisions on that reality, to maintain an open mind and always assume I could be wrong.
    The morals I have are based on a balance of self interest and empathy, I think I have a good middle ground.

    Of course we will disagree. Living for me, isn't about my happiness. Although my heart is inclined to making my life surround me and my happiness and everything else, I believe that reaching the source of my existence is the beginning source of empathy where I can even begin to draw the inspiration to know and love my friends, family, and even forgive those who hate me, or people whom I have difficulty getting along with. I believe its only God who can save us from ourselves.


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    #139
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Here we go again, I'm a terrible horrible person and I think everyone else is too therefore an all loving omnipotent deity must exist and care about me personally


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    #140
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Here we go again, I'm a terrible horrible person and I think everyone else is too therefore an all loving omnipotent deity must exist and care about me personally

    Personally, I do believe I'm an broken and fallen person who has done awful things. Common observation tells me this.

    Common observation tells me also that this propensity also exists in mankind. It is the reason why the human situation is the way it is. This which is essentially the starting point of my faith, is clearly evident. Everyone knows this is true of mankind, otherwise our world would look radically different.

    This is where we are at. As I see it as a Christian, there is good news. That's we call it the Gospel.


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    #141
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I believe that the human condition is fallen, therefore I can expect such acts from humans (in general) whether they are atheists or Christians. That's why I seek something higher than the average in human existence.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    People tend to have the notion that mankind will get better and better in action over time. I just don't know about this. Mankind is inherently evil as I see it. The heart of man is inclined towards selfishness, hatred, greed, and lust. Every individual knows this. I know that my heart is attuned to this kind of thinking.

    Ahh man, when I see you posting stuff like this, which you do quite a lot, I just feel genuinely sorry for you. People talk about religion giving people comfort and making them happy but the above attitude sounds soul crushing to me. I dread to think what it would be like to try and live my life with a certainty that everybody is innately evil and constantly have to try and not do evil things. I'm not a bad person, I hope, and I don't have to actively try to stop myself from hurting others. I think most people (not all obviously) are like me in that regard. I like most humans. I don't think they are broken and need to be fixed.

    A lot of atheists say they dislike religion because of the effect it has on their life or way of life. I don't. I dislike religion because of the effect it has on the people that believe in it. It must be hard for them, and unnecessarily so.


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    #142
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Oh my god do we really need another religion-hating thread?

    I have to say thatthe while I am in no doubt that there is a fair amount of arrogance and intolerance on both sides I can only comment on the way in which somen athiests behave towards those of us with beliefs because I have been on the recieving end of it and it really isn't pleasent.

    Please understand that it is not the belief itself I have issue with. Frankly I couldn't care less what anyone believes as long as it is not harmful to them or anyone else.

    What I take issue with is the idea that being athiest somehow makes you superior or more intelligent than me. You cannot claim to be more intelligent and enlightened than believers only to then turn around and describe us as weak-minded, deluded, stupid or any of the other hundreds of insults I have seen levelled at believers like myself.

    If anything many athiests are as intolerant if not more than those they accuse of being so.

    Also note I am saying SOME athiests here not ALL.


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    #143
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    strobe wrote: »
    Ahh man, when I see you posting stuff like this, which you do quite a lot, I just feel genuinely sorry for you. People talk about religion giving people comfort and making them happy but the above attitude sounds soul crushing to me. I dread to think what it would be like to try and live my life with a certainty that everybody is innately evil and constantly have to try and not do evil things. I'm not a bad person, I hope, and I don't have to actively try to stop myself from hurting others. I think most people (not all obviously) are like me in that regard. I like most humans. I don't think they are broken and need to be fixed.

    You shouldn't feel sorry for me at all. As a result of accepting Christ, I've been able to settle such things out both with God and neighbour.

    A friend of mine whom I went to school with also comes up with a similar notion that I'm being disingenuous and dishonest by attributing my apparent "successes" to God. For me I don't see this at all, because I know for certain that this was not any 'work' of my own. He feels sorry for me for this reason, I can't even begin to explain how confused I am at this position because my life is good news.
    strobe wrote: »
    A lot of atheists say they dislike religion because of the effect it has on their life or way of life. I don't. I dislike religion because of the effect it has on the people that believe in it. It must be hard for them, and unnecessarily so.

    Indeed, I'm boggled as to how people think this is negative. Christianity begins with realism and honesty about where we are at. The knowledge that one doesn't have to rely or rest on human standards any more is wholly liberating.


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    #144
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Jakkass wrote: »

    Indeed, I'm boggled as to how people think this is negative. Christianity begins with realism and honesty about where we are at
    Sounds more like the usual advertising "create a fear then leap to fill it" to me
    That said, my own one isn't too far off so I can't say much :pac:

    But still, the "i'm a horrible person" gets very sad to hear


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    #145
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Oh my god do we really need another religion-hating thread?

    I have to say thatthe while I am in no doubt that there is a fair amount of arrogance and intolerance on both sides I can only comment on the way in which somen athiests behave towards those of us with beliefs because I have been on the recieving end of it and it really isn't pleasent.

    Please understand that it is not the belief itself I have issue with. Frankly I couldn't care less what anyone believes as long as it is not harmful to them or anyone else.

    What I take issue with is the idea that being athiest somehow makes you superior or more intelligent than me. You cannot claim to be more intelligent and enlightened than believers only to then turn around and describe us as weak-minded, deluded, stupid or any of the other hundreds of insults I have seen levelled at believers like myself.

    If anything many athiests are as intolerant if not more than those they accuse of being so.

    Also note I am saying SOME athiests here not ALL.

    But are you a Catholic? :D




















    sorry


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    #146
    storm2811
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭storm2811


    Again with the "all atheists are dicks/bigoted/feel superior" thing, some are yes, but it doesn't mean all of them are.

    Some people are just dicks, regardless of religion.
    I'm an atheist but I've been called a religious apologist, I don't know if that's and insult or a compliment though.:pac:


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    #147
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    strobe wrote: »
    But are you a Catholic? :D




















    sorry

    Oh god this again!

    Seriously I thought I'd already debated this with everyone and established that I'm not.


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    #148
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    the-dude wrote: »
    many are so dumb because they were brought up this way,to beleive.


    Fail.
    Raised by an agnostic mother and an atheist father. Went to mass for funerals, weddings and relatives christenings, never knew why people kept standing up and sitting down and kneeling (still dont), never knew what the feck people were rubbing their heads for (still don't). Yet I am noq a Christian.


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    #149
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    storm2811 wrote: »
    Again with the "all atheists are dicks/bigoted/feel superior" thing, some are yes, but it doesn't mean all of them are.

    Some people are just dicks, regardless of religion.
    I'm an atheist but I've been called a religious apologist, I don't know if that's and insult or a compliment though.:pac:

    You're an atheist who is biggoted to other atheists.
    Biggotty McBiggotson.

    p.s. get a haircut.


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    #150
    Junco Partner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭Junco Partner


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    Yes on 2 of 3, do I win a prize? :D

    slightly hypocritical celebrating religous holidays as an atheist no?


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    #151
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    f0ggy92 wrote: »
    slightly hypocritical celebrating religous holidays as an atheist no?

    no


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