Forced Culture

deise go deo wrote: »

I claim people support Irish and provide evidence

Your evidence is flimsy and your conclusions from that evidence are fantasies. People 'support' Irish, but that does not mean what you say.

The contradictory evidence that you ask of me is all around us, every day - a massive majority English-speaking society.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Your evidence is flimsy and your conclusions from that evidence are fantasies. People 'support' Irish, but that does not mean what you say.

My evidence exists, Yours dose not.
You are the one entertaining the fantasy that people who speak English do not support Irish.

The contradictory evidence that you ask of me is all around us, every day - a massive majority English-speaking society.

You have simply drawn a false conclusion, You seem to think that most people speak English means that as a result most people do not support Irish. I speak English, For your argument to work I could not support Irish.

Show me figures for people in this country who do not wish Irish to be supported by the state, Mine suggest it is 7%. Where is your counter evidence?

jackbenimble wrote: »

What's the situation today?

If it's changed for the better, when did the improvements begin?

1922:D

irishh_bob wrote: »

the term gah is almost exclusively a dublin reference , in rural ireland , when people speak of football , they mean the kind where you can touch the ball with your hands

ps , i perfer soccer to gaelic

Ye your right, it's all about were you are from at the end of the day. I think we should leave at that though it's a silly debate to have!!

deise go deo wrote: »

Sexist.:P

Irish exists and most people want it preserved and promoted, If not in schools then how?

If people want to preserve it then they should preserve it themselves. It shouldn't be forced on students in all there years in school. I don't have a problem with Irish just that I was forced to learn it in school. I love studying languages and I study Russian at the moment. The thought of ever having to study Irish again however almost makes me sick though because I had such bad experiences of it in school!

Personally I think it should be taught up until 3rd year after which it should be an optional subject, along with all other subjects bar probably maths, as imo this is the most important subject taught in school.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well forgive me if I reject the "forced culture" of someone refusing to abide by established naming conventions all around the world.

Hurling is Hurling
Football is (Gaelic) Football
Soccer is Soccer
Rugby is Rugby (Football)

I guess it works both ways when some people want to impose their belief structure on others who disagree.

But I'm sticking with established conventions worldwide.

"Soccer" is known as football in the majority of the world:p But seriously as i said no point going on about this, is pointless really:)

And I wasn't trying to enforce my opinions on you I was just saying how the majority of people I know call soccer football blah blah.... Obviously the opposite is true in your case:)

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Stop thinking 'for & against', it's a more like 'enthusiastic vs indifferent'.

Exactly!

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Your evidence is a survey based on a small sample of 1000 people, scripted by an organization with an economic interest in the results with the data being analysed by that same organisation. My evidence is the real, functioning, English-speaking world we both live in..... but which you deny exists.

Dont be foolish, I accept that Irish people generally conduct their lives through English. I disagree with your interpretation of that, You are making it out to be some sort of collective rejection of Irish, I want to see your evidence for such a rejection.

Your logic is flawed. You also speak Irish, this means that you support Irish more than an English speaker who, having been given the opportunity to learn Irish, has decided not to speak Irish. Stop thinking 'for & against', it's a more like 'enthusiastic vs indifferent'.

You claim that because people conduct their lives through English they must reject Irish, I know many people who conduct their lives through English and yet are great supporters and promoters of Irish.
No one it completely indifferent, They may hold only nominal views but they are there, There is enthusiast, Indifferent and detractor.
The survey I presented suggests that those who are indifferent generally are mildly supportive of the language and that the detractor section is quite small.

4 million people conducting their lives in English. Numerous English-language TV and radio stations, some 100% privately funded. Scores of newspapers and magazines in English. Now, how many Irish-language equivalents, 100% funded by Irish-speakers?

Again you make the assumption that useing English intails a rejection of Irish.
That dosent reflect reality, it is far to black and white.

How many schools that were Irish medium have changed to become English medium?

irishh_bob wrote: »

the term gah is almost exclusively a dublin reference , in rural ireland , when people speak of football , they mean the kind where you can touch the ball with your hands

And so do the people in the other cities

plenty of people in Ireland call Soccer, Soccer.

This debate is pointless. All cultural systems teach their dominent narratives, or people pick them up. In fact anti-Catholicism in the UK has clearly spread by their rather disasterous education system, and it's built environment. And England has a utterly ridiculous victim mentality towards Catholicism, too, as can be seen by Stephen Fry's recent speech when he whined about some of the tiny group of people killed for owning a bible. These guys aren't even a statistical sideshow compared to the opposite in the UK - Catholics killed and persecuted for being Catholics in Established England.

Where does Fry get this? Well, he is a clearly uneducated man, but he would get the Bloody Mary references throughout the culture, the "spanish inquisition" references in popular speech, the built environment with it's martyrs to Catholicism outside Oxford, the statues to William Tyndale, et al.

Ireland's education system tries to redress the balance there, and even on these boards the uneducated chime in with their "spanish inquisition" nonsense.

And then there are the anti-Republicans. 1916 was about as "terrorist" as the Boston Tea Party, and very few countries get out of an Imperial system without fighting for it, unless the Empire is totally in dis-array.

So if we dont teach the real history of Ireland - which reflects badly on the UK - then that history will disappear down the memory hole, since it is hardly a dominant narrative.

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donegalfella wrote: »

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I believe they are looked at in school. In fact my leaving cert history was exclusively that period. Its not too rosy either, the land war, agitation, home rule bill after home rule bill, punch magazine etc.

The problem here is that history is mythologised and used for an existing political agenda. Even when it is not it is interpreted that way. Republicans do it and you also do it.

History is stuff that happened, its not a political manifesto. You should read about cromwell but if you ignore the massacres of protestants in 1642 then you are getting a false impression of what happened.

You should learn about 1014 and Brian boru, but if you dont understand his carreer of conquest prior to that you wont understand it properly.

You should learn about the neolithic tombs of ireland but acknowlegde that you dont know mcuh about them and put away the feckin incense and the djembe you irritating......sorry lost the run of myself there

edit: 'You' isnt refering to you donegalfella, its a general you. is there a royal you?

Rabble Rabble wrote: »

I have always heard soccer called soccer in Ireland, and gaelic = football. Clearly it is regional.

Only militant culchies and yanks use the S word.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well I'm living in Dublin now but I'm originally from Monaghan, which is a fairly "gaelicised" county.

To be 'galeicised' Would it not have had to have been Anglicised first?