Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Soon to need a prescription for Nurofen/Solphadine/etc?

Options
1…3133353637

Comments

  • Options
    #962
    KilaWhale
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭KilaWhale


    username123 wrote: »
    How is the pharmacist to be satisfied that the person isnt lying through their teeth? Do you think people with an addiction problem will actually state they want the medicine to satisfy a fix, or that they want to extract the active ingredient to make crystal meth?

    A person's demeanour is usually quite informative when it comes to recognising an addiction. Answers can be obviously pre-prepared (is this even a word??) and picked up on by the person doing the questioning without a direct admission.


  • Options
    #963
    Kurtosis
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    username123 wrote: »
    How is the pharmacist to be satisfied that the person isnt lying through their teeth? Do you think people with an addiction problem will actually state they want the medicine to satisfy a fix, or that they want to extract the active ingredient to make crystal meth?

    Probably not, but better to ask questions and see what the responses are than rely on psychic abilities to try and discern what the intention of the customer is.


  • Options
    #964
    uSmellLikeSoup
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭uSmellLikeSoup


    A female work colleague went into Boots the other day to get something for period pains. The pharmacist was called by the staff member on duty and quizzed my friends in front of other customers. She told her the other options and my friend said she had tried other stuff in the past, but Solpadeine worked best for her. The pharmacist basically refused to sell them to my friend and she returned to work empty handed.

    If the legislation says that pharmacists are to advise on other treatments, why are they refusing the sale to people? Why stock them, if they are gonna refuse the sale? And also, what are the qualifying illnesses for which it is acceptable to take these medicines?


  • Options
    #965
    fearcruach
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭fearcruach


    uSmellLikeSoup wrote: »
    A female work colleague went into Boots the other day to get something for period pains. The pharmacist was called by the staff member on duty and quizzed my friends in front of other customers. She told her the other options and my friend said she had tried other stuff in the past, but Solpadeine worked best for her. The pharmacist basically refused to sell them to my friend and she returned to work empty handed.

    If the legislation says that pharmacists are to advise on other treatments, why are they refusing the sale to people? Why stock them, if they are gonna refuse the sale? And also, what are the qualifying illnesses for which it is acceptable to take these medicines?

    Nurofen would be a more appropriate drug for period pain as the ibuprofen can enter the endometrium better than paracetamol.

    If a pharmacist feels that any drug is not appropriate for the treatment of a condition then it is their duty of care to the patient not to sell it to them.

    Codeine containing products are to be used for severe pain that is not controlled by standard painkillers.

    I think a large part of the problem is the marketing behind Solpadeine has left a lot of people thinking that it works better than anything else even for pain that has been scientifically proven to be better controlled by ibuprofen (for example muscular pain).

    If it were purely for the effect that codeine has as a painkiller then Nurofen Plus would be the more popular as it has 4 mg more codeine than Solpadeine.


  • Options
    #966
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    KilaWhale wrote: »
    A person's demeanour is usually quite informative when it comes to recognising an addiction. Answers can be obviously pre-prepared (is this even a word??) and picked up on by the person doing the questioning without a direct admission.

    No - this doesnt do it for me. I know plenty of good liars and i know plenty of people who come across as though theyre twitchy when theyre nervous and could be thought to be lying. Im also familiar with people with addiction problems - and they are probably the most manipulative convincing people youd ever meet.

    Its too subjective - you might think someone is lying, I might be convinced they are being truthful.

    All Im getting at is this - you dont know if people are lying (well not without sophisticated equipment) - you really dont. So the whole question asking routine could be considered to be a waste of time.

    If the medicines are considered to be this dangerous (and this is another issue I have with it - pharmacists were happily selling the same medication, recommending it even until the new rules came in - yet it was the same 'dangerous' medicine!!) - then why not make them prescription only and be done with it? That way a GP can supervise access to them and we can all happily abuse aspirin until thats locked down too.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #967
    KilaWhale
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭KilaWhale


    username123 wrote: »
    No - this doesnt do it for me. I know plenty of good liars and i know plenty of people who come across as though theyre twitchy when theyre nervous and could be thought to be lying. Im also familiar with people with addiction problems - and they are probably the most manipulative convincing people youd ever meet.

    Its too subjective - you might think someone is lying, I might be convinced they are being truthful.

    All Im getting at is this - you dont know if people are lying (well not without sophisticated equipment) - you really dont. So the whole question asking routine could be considered to be a waste of time.

    If the medicines are considered to be this dangerous (and this is another issue I have with it - pharmacists were happily selling the same medication, recommending it even until the new rules came in - yet it was the same 'dangerous' medicine!!) - then why not make them prescription only and be done with it? That way a GP can supervise access to them and we can all happily abuse aspirin until thats locked down too.


    Responsible pharmacists were asking these questions long before regulations came in.
    Your pharmacist should be asking you questions regarding your medical history when selling aspirin too - it has its own set of indications and contraindications.


  • Options
    #968
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Round round, like a record baby, right round.


  • Options
    #969
    KilaWhale
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭KilaWhale


    bleg wrote: »
    Round round, like a record baby, right round.

    Sorry this thread was new to me, I figured that each time someone commented on it that it was a 'new conversation' - not too up on the whole forum thing yet :)

    Probably enough said already...thanks for the 'debate' username123, you gave me food for thought, I hope you got the same out of it, all the best :D


  • Options
    #970
    Kurtosis
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 2,881 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kurtosis


    username123 wrote: »
    No - this doesnt do it for me. I know plenty of good liars and i know plenty of people who come across as though theyre twitchy when theyre nervous and could be thought to be lying. Im also familiar with people with addiction problems - and they are probably the most manipulative convincing people youd ever meet.

    Its too subjective - you might think someone is lying, I might be convinced they are being truthful.

    All Im getting at is this - you dont know if people are lying (well not without sophisticated equipment) - you really dont. So the whole question asking routine could be considered to be a waste of time.

    Grand so. Any better suggestions on how to find out what purpose a medicine is being bought for and if it is intended to be abused or misused?

    This isn't just trying to find people who want certain products for illicit means. If someone was buying Sudafed to take at night to stop their nasal drip, this wouldn't be an appropriate use, as it would probably keep them awake for half the night. If someone was applying a steroid cream to broken skin, this could be considered misuse and they may suffer from adverse effects.
    If the medicines are considered to be this dangerous (and this is another issue I have with it - pharmacists were happily selling the same medication, recommending it even until the new rules came in - yet it was the same 'dangerous' medicine!!) - then why not make them prescription only and be done with it? That way a GP can supervise access to them and we can all happily abuse aspirin until thats locked down too.

    These medicines aren't dangerous. There are still pharmacists recommending them, when their use is appropriate. The prescription/non-prescription status of medicines can be decided by the Dept of Health and the Irish Medicines Board


  • Options
    #971
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    fearcruach wrote: »

    If it were purely for the effect that codeine has as a painkiller then Nurofen Plus would be the more popular as it has 4 mg more codeine than Solpadeine.


    Which it is, in the small cohort I have treated over the years; I would say 50+ individuals. Also the damage caused by over-use is not as severe as with Sop.

    What do they reckon 14g of paracetamol is enough for liver damage? I still think though this is not the way to go in addressing the issue. Just making something harder to get has never stopped addictive behaviour, it's just an easy way out.

    I lost one patient due to the long term damage of nurofen +, she was on methadone with us for it, though this happened way too late. I made the 999 call for her the last day she attended our clinic. That's over 2 years ago but I'll never forget that lady.

    I believe that if some kind of intervention had been made sooner she would still be with us. With saying that though I'm not saying everyone using OTC codeine needs methadone, however, this lady did.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #972
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    KilaWhale wrote: »
    A person's demeanour is usually quite informative when it comes to recognising an addiction. Answers can be obviously pre-prepared (is this even a word??) and picked up on by the person doing the questioning without a direct admission.

    I would totally disagree with that one. I have a good addict radar as I have worked in various addiction treatment settings for the past 13 years, but making a call based uponthe above, very little chance I think especially when you consider your dealing with OTC addicts not very striking heroin addicts.

    This type of view-point is generally based upon reading body language, a very bad way of making such a call. I trained as a psychoanalyst the things I have sen and heard since I started in this line of work, would not correspond to a simple over-view of body language. However, if you think you can read people you either have a special gift; or you may be making a lot of flase calls. Even if you refuse a person based upon your reading of their demeanour how do you know your are correct?


  • Options
    #973
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    KilaWhale wrote: »
    ..thanks for the 'debate' username123, you gave me food for thought, I hope you got the same out of it, all the best :D

    Thanks to you too - enjoyed that :)


  • Options
    #974
    E.T.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭E.T.


    uSmellLikeSoup wrote: »
    A female work colleague went into Boots the other day to get something for period pains. The pharmacist was called by the staff member on duty and quizzed my friends in front of other customers. She told her the other options and my friend said she had tried other stuff in the past, but Solpadeine worked best for her. The pharmacist basically refused to sell them to my friend and she returned to work empty handed.

    If the legislation says that pharmacists are to advise on other treatments, why are they refusing the sale to people? Why stock them, if they are gonna refuse the sale? And also, what are the qualifying illnesses for which it is acceptable to take these medicines?

    I had the same problem too. I told the pharmacist that I can't take anti-inflammatories of any kind because of an existing condition, and that I've taken solpadeine before without any problem. He said that I should be able to take NSAIDs and I said again that I can't. (Not going into details now but common enough condition - ABSOLUTELY can't take NSAIDs, they exacerbate my condition completely). He actually went and checked so he could prove me wrong, and got on a majorly high horse when he realised he was wrong. Told me he couldn't sell me solpadeine without a prescription. This was all in front of the queue of people waiting.

    I realise that the majority of pharmacists are doing their job brilliantly, and are experiencing hassle at the moment, my local pharmacist is just lovely. I just had the misfortune of being away for the weekend and having to put up with this muppet who didn't know what he was talking about, and wasn't impressed at being caught.


  • Options
    #975
    Shulgin
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Shulgin


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9khsi4nA4TE
    ProfessorDaveatYork | 19 October 2010
    This video explains some of the chemistry behind codeine - which is an over-the-counter pain medication here in the UK. Recently, media attention has questioned whether codeine should be banned. As usual, this video tries to address the chemistry behind the story, discussing the mode of action of codeine, and how it relies on metabolic activation, which can vary between individuals. I reflect on how the benefits and risks of codeine may be balanced.


  • Options
    #976
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    E.T. wrote: »
    I realise that the majority of pharmacists are doing their job brilliantly, and are experiencing hassle at the moment, my local pharmacist is just lovely. I just had the misfortune of being away for the weekend and having to put up with this muppet who didn't know what he was talking about, and wasn't impressed at being caught.

    Was I dreaming recently when I heard someone on the radio stating that the guidelines don't prevent a pharmacist from selling Codeine-containing products and that they are there for customer education only?


  • Options
    #977
    balletchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭balletchick


    I suffer the occasional, tho very painful bout of neuralgia ( a very sharp sudden pain in your head, like the type you get after eating ice cream too fast).None of the paracetimol / ibuprofen type painkillers worked. I was recommended "Syndol" by a pharmacist 3 years ago and it has worked a treat.
    Homever, since the new regulations have come in Ive been made to feel like a junkie just for asking for the very product that was recommended to me by a member of this same profession. Where is the logic in this ?? I had to go to 3 different pharmacies today and eventualy was sold a packet of 10 in the last one. Tbh, the humiliation and embarressment was almost worse than the pain.......and my headache was definitely worse by the time I had finally got served.
    I think the whole thing is a joke.......if the government, HSE etc are really concerned about addiction, they would be targetting chain smokers and drinkers. I will be using the internet or going up north from now on.
    WELL DONE Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #978
    ebixa82
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭ebixa82


    balletchick wrote: »
    I suffer the occasional, tho very painful bout of neuralgia ( a very sharp sudden pain in your head, like the type you get after eating ice cream too fast).None of the paracetimol / ibuprofen type painkillers worked. I was recommended "Syndol" by a pharmacist 3 years ago and it has worked a treat.
    Homever, since the new regulations have come in Ive been made to feel like a junkie just for asking for the very product that was recommended to me by a member of this same profession. Where is the logic in this ?? I had to go to 3 different pharmacies today and eventualy was sold a packet of 10 in the last one. Tbh, the humiliation and embarressment was almost worse than the pain.......and my headache was definitely worse by the time I had finally got served.
    I think the whole thing is a joke.......if the government, HSE etc are really concerned about addiction, they would be targetting chain smokers and drinkers. I will be using the internet or going up north from now on.
    WELL DONE Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland :rolleyes:

    Syndol should not be used repeatedly for neuralgia. You should go to your Doctor and get a more appropriate drug that does not have addictive potential. Using a potentially addictive drug for 3 years will only have one, very predictable outcome..


  • Options
    #979
    balletchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭balletchick


    thank you, ebixa, for the...... shall i say, "predictable" answer ! Obviously, anyone taking syndol non-stop over a 3 year period would have a serious problem. But if you read my post properly in the 1st place, you would see that I said I suffer the "occasional" bout of Neuralgia. This being maybe 3 times a year. I consider taking Syndol on those occasions the most appropriate course of treatment. I do not need to see a dr or spend €55 to be given a prescription for stronger drugs. I take responsibility for my own body and the chemicals I put into it. It seems the Irish Pharmaceutical Society aka big brother, wants to take this responsibility away from us.


  • Options
    #980
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    balletchick wrote: »
    thank you, ebixa, for the...... shall i say, "predictable" answer ! Obviously, anyone taking syndol non-stop over a 3 year period would have a serious problem. But if you read my post properly in the 1st place, you would see that I said I suffer the "occasional" bout of Neuralgia. This being maybe 3 times a year. I consider taking Syndol on those occasions the most appropriate course of treatment. I do not need to see a dr or spend €55 to be given a prescription for stronger drugs. I take responsibility for my own body and the chemicals I put into it. It seems the Irish Pharmaceutical Society aka big brother, wants to take this responsibility away from us.

    Big brother has a majority lay council for the past few years, "serving the public interest".


  • Options
    #981
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    balletchick wrote: »
    thank you, ebixa, for the...... shall i say, "predictable" answer ! Obviously, anyone taking syndol non-stop over a 3 year period would have a serious problem. But if you read my post properly in the 1st place, you would see that I said I suffer the "occasional" bout of Neuralgia. This being maybe 3 times a year. I consider taking Syndol on those occasions the most appropriate course of treatment. I do not need to see a dr or spend €55 to be given a prescription for stronger drugs. I take responsibility for my own body and the chemicals I put into it. It seems the Irish Pharmaceutical Society aka big brother, wants to take this responsibility away from us.


    In the time it took you to register on boards and type those two posts you could have sent an e-mail to the PSI. That might not have made the slightest bit of a difference but would probably be more effective in solving your problem than moaning and cribbing on boards.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #982
    balletchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭balletchick


    "In the time it took you to register on boards and type those two posts you could have sent an e-mail to the PSI. That might not have made the slightest bit of a difference but would probably be more effective in solving your problem than moaning and cribbing on boards. "

    this is very true.......but dont you agree that having a bitch and a moan after a long day at work is very therapeutic?? :)
    Isnt that what "boards" is all about ???? people joining to express their opinion on a subject........as you have done too ???

    and........i'm very happy to see that having read all this thread and other similar ones on the codeine fiasco, that I among the majority who believe that the new regulations are ridiculous and only serve to waste time on the part of pharmacy staff and legitimate customers.


  • Options
    #983
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    To be honest, I think any sort of regulations on medicine is a bit ridiculous. If the pharmacist warns you of the risk you're undertaking if you take x drug and you understand you should be able to buy what you want.

    My theory anyway.


  • Options
    #984
    sesna
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭sesna


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    To be honest, I think any sort of regulations on medicine is a bit ridiculous. If the pharmacist warns you of the risk you're undertaking if you take x drug and you understand you should be able to buy what you want.

    My theory anyway.

    Yeah methadone, morphine, etc - lets make it a free for all. People are so responsible and informed afterall.


  • Options
    #985
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,379 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    To be honest, I think any sort of regulations on medicine is a bit ridiculous. If the pharmacist warns you of the risk you're undertaking if you take x drug and you understand you should be able to buy what you want.

    My theory anyway.
    And that is different to what pharmacists do now, how?


  • Options
    #986
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    sesna wrote: »
    Yeah methadone, morphine, etc - lets make it a free for all. People are so responsible and informed afterall.



    Not even to mention antibiotics.


  • Options
    #987
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    And that is different to what pharmacists do now, how?

    They are currently refusing products containing codeine to some customers based on a subjective question and answer session.


  • Options
    #988
    balletchick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭balletchick


    username123 wrote: »
    They are currently refusing products containing codeine to some customers based on a subjective question and answer session.

    I thoroughly agree username 123.....therein lies the problem and the danger, when a pharmacist bases her subjective opinion on the visual appearance of the customer, along with the "answers" given to their 20-questions.
    If someone is intelligent and educated on the dangers of codeine, the decision on whether to consume it, should not be taken from them. This is bordering on a nanny-state, and does not bode well for the future. We have only to look at what happenned in the late 90's with St John's Wort and recently again with the state trying to change the regulations of vitamins and other herbs in health-food stores.
    Give us the dignity of making informed choices on what we choose to put into our bodies, whether person x y or z agrees with that choice or not


  • Options
    #989
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    sesna wrote: »
    Yeah methadone, morphine, etc - lets make it a free for all. People are so responsible and informed afterall.

    I'm sorry I forgot the nanny state knows better than I do what can and can't put in my body. Just because some people are irresponsible and illinformed does that mean the right to use and indeed abuse medication if you so wish should be taken away from everyone??


  • Options
    #990
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    balletchick wrote: »
    when a pharmacist bases her subjective opinion on the visual appearance of the customer, along with the "answers" given to their 20-questions.
    Hear hear, and not even a pharmacist on most occasions, but their minimum wage paid untrained shop-assistants.

    I remember the bru-ha-ha caused by the then IPU in the 90's when multiples were allowed sell products containing paracetamol and aspirin off the shelves. You'd swear the sky was falling in from the hyperbole coming from their press-releases.

    Again, I state, this directive has nothing to do with the public interest, but all to do with a private-interest group reducing their legal exposure in light of the high consumption of codeine related products being sold in this jurisdiction under their watch.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #991
    bleg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    balletchick wrote: »
    If someone is intelligent and educated on the dangers of codeine, the decision on whether to consume it, should not be taken from them. This is bordering on a nanny-state, and does not bode well for the future. We have only to look at what happenned in the late 90's with St John's Wort and recently again with the state trying to change the regulations of vitamins and other herbs in health-food stores.

    St John's Wort is used to treat depression. Depression is a serious illness. You should not self diagnose and self treat depression. Hence it was made POM. The current EU regulations don't make any vitamins, herbal medicines or supplements POM, the regulations simply ensure that if these products make health benefit claims they must be backed up and proven. The supplement industry is a multi billion euro industry and can afford such studies.

    If you want to make health claims about your product, no problem, however you must back them up.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement