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Timber Vs PVC Front door?

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  • 15-10-2010 11:27am
    #1
    Sigma Force
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭


    One thing we didn't do when extending/renovating was replace the front door which is that awful aluminium and the condensation is fierce and it's creating mold around the area.
    The glass section is 3/4 of the door which doesn't help but the hall would be fairly dark without it but am willing to go with smaller glass, there's no room on either side to fit a window but will see if it's possible to fit a window.

    So which would be better when replacing it, regular PVC or timber?
    Back door is PVC and it's more ventilated there because of windows near by it does create a little condensation and the odd bit of mold now and then but nothing severe so was thinking perhaps a timber door in front would be better.
    Would there be a huge problem with the timber door expanding and shrinking though?
    Would it effect a BER rating much?
    Having BER done next week so it's not going to make any difference to our rating at this stage but just interested to know.

    Is it possible to fit some sort of little window into the actual door to help with light and ventilation or would it look silly?

    Any suggestions welcome.


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    #2
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Sigma Force wrote: »
    So which would be better when replacing it, regular PVC or timber?
    Its down to personal choice really.
    I personally like a natural wood door, with a double glazed top panel, for lots of natural light.


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    #3
    imitation
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    You can get insulated uPVC doors as another option, the ones I have seen look sturdy enough. Some decent double glazing panes should mean you can have a decent sized window as well.


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    #4
    cuculainn
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭cuculainn


    Sigma Force wrote: »
    One thing we didn't do when extending/renovating was replace the front door which is that awful aluminium and the condensation is fierce and it's creating mold around the area.
    The glass section is 3/4 of the door which doesn't help but the hall would be fairly dark without it but am willing to go with smaller glass, there's no room on either side to fit a window but will see if it's possible to fit a window.

    So which would be better when replacing it, regular PVC or timber?
    Back door is PVC and it's more ventilated there because of windows near by it does create a little condensation and the odd bit of mold now and then but nothing severe so was thinking perhaps a timber door in front would be better.
    Would there be a huge problem with the timber door expanding and shrinking though?
    Would it effect a BER rating much?
    Having BER done next week so it's not going to make any difference to our rating at this stage but just interested to know.

    Is it possible to fit some sort of little window into the actual door to help with light and ventilation or would it look silly?

    Any suggestions welcome.

    Why not look at a composite door? Good U values and no isssues with shrinking/expanding like timber doors


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    #5
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Just had a compostite door installed.

    6 panel Georgian door.I chose a wood effect coating in black.Very good U-Vaue of 0.205 too and one hell of a sturdy door too.
    The 2 front window strips and also the 2 side glass windows are tripple glazed,with bespoke hand laid stained/leaded glass which is sandwiched in between 2 panes of clear glass.

    Much much better than the normal UPVC doors.


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    #6
    kardarie
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭kardarie


    We put in a timber door when we first built the house just over 4 years ago now. This winter we will have to change it to uPVC as the timber door lets in some drafts. Its very well insulated around the door but these doors do shrink and expand and this is causing the problems. They also have vents at the bottom of the door for ventilation but this is what is causing us the most problems. So i wouldnt go for a timber door again even though they are lovely.


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    #7
    Sigma Force
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Sigma Force


    Love that door Paddy, our door way wouldn't be as big but I love the look of it. Do the composite doors work out much dearer?


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    #8
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Sigma Force wrote: »
    Love that door Paddy, our door way wouldn't be as big but I love the look of it. Do the composite doors work out much dearer?


    They cost feck all now compared to say a year ago.

    You will still pay a few hundread euro more for a propper composite insulated door,then compared to a normal/run of the mill UPVC door,but the benifits in extra comfort and also extra security are so well worth the extra money.Trust me.:)

    P.S-That door of mine is a standard 2100 x 900 wide sized door opening,the 2 front window strips and also the 2 larger side window strips were custom made to suit the design of the porch on the house.Then my mate who does hand laid stained and designer glass panels did all the glass work for the porch windows.


    Theres also a small spy hole built into the door knocker so that you can see the person outside,so you know who is knocking at the door,before you open it to them.
    Also had the 2 porch lights rigged up to a PIR dector above the door so thet the lights come on as someone enters the driveway or if me or my missus is driving into the driveway.Its a nice wellcomming feeling home but also its a security measure too.


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    #9
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    Can I just bump this thread to say PM sent to paddy147.....got a quote for a composite door and it was astronomical. I know they are meant to be better in terms of heat loss, but would a well sealed timber door be good enough to keep a draughty hallway warm? Any thoughts??


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    #10
    tred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭tred


    dan_d wrote: »
    Can I just bump this thread to say PM sent to paddy147.....got a quote for a composite door and it was astronomical. I know they are meant to be better in terms of heat loss, but would a well sealed timber door be good enough to keep a draughty hallway warm? Any thoughts??

    how much?? dont name the company..but just ball park..maybe someone can compare


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    #11
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    I got my georgian composite door from a company called <SNIP>.

    The have a large manufacturing plant down there where they make thermal composite doors.

    <SNIP>




    Mod edit: Please read the forum charter.


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    #12
    48nico
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭48nico


    I got a quote for timber framed composite double doors with a 900mm side light and a composite back door >6000euros.Does this sound exorbitant


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    #13
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    48nico wrote: »
    I got a quote for timber framed composite double doors with a 900mm side light and a composite back door >6000euros.Does this sound exorbitant


    I am not sure paddy and 48nico are talking about the same type of door.

    48nico ... a quote of €6,000 may appear exorbitant to one man and inexpensive to another.

    However, it is hard to judge if the quote you mention represents Value without knowing some of the details.

    Is your quote of €6,000 for 2 timber -alu composite items ?
    approx dimensions 2700mm (W) x 2100mm (H) and 900mm (W) x 2100(H) ?
    Does the price include installation ?
    If so does the installation price include for uninstalling old items ?
    Does the price include for the removal and disposal of old items ?
    Does the price include for making good after the installation ?
    Does the price include VAT ?

    If you can let us know the above, it will be much easier to judge if the quotation represents good value or not.


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    #14
    48nico
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭48nico


    braftery wrote: »
    I am not sure paddy and 48nico are talking about the same type of door.

    48nico ... a quote of €6,000 may appear exorbitant to one man and inexpensive to another.

    However, it is hard to judge if the quote you mention represents Value without knowing some of the details.

    Is your quote of €6,000 for 2 timber -alu composite items ?
    approx dimensions 2700mm (W) x 2100mm (H) and 900mm (W) x 2100(H) ?
    Does the price include installation ?
    If so does the installation price include for uninstalling old items ?
    Does the price include for the removal and disposal of old items ?
    Does the price include for making good after the installation ?
    Does the price include VAT ?

    If you can let us know the above, it will be much easier to judge if the quotation represents good value or not.

    the front doors are approx 1800mm(w)2100(h) side light 900(w) 2100(h)
    these double doors are stepped out so original door is not installed

    back door is 900(w) 2100(h) original back door is uninstalled

    doors are composite doors supplied from a well known large company
    Manufactured from compression moulded glass fibre and high density polyurethane

    the price of 6500 includes vat
    10 year guarantee


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    #15
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    48nico wrote: »
    the front doors are approx 1800mm(w)2100(h) side light 900(w) 2100(h)
    these double doors are stepped out so original door is not installed

    back door is 900(w) 2100(h) original back door is uninstalled

    doors are composite doors supplied from a well known large company
    Manufactured from compression moulded glass fibre and high density polyurethane

    the price of 6500 includes vat
    10 year guarantee


    Net price: 5,727 (assuming 13.5% VAT)

    Have they included for disposing of your old back door ?
    Have they included for making good the plaster damage on the back door ?

    I will assume that they have not included any other works around the front door and side light other than installing the items.

    If the installers are not undertaking any "making good work" it is probably 1 day for 2 men to fit this job.

    Unless the Door design is elaborate the quote does seem a little high.
    I am not an expert on composite doors, but the same items in a high quality timber would be in the region of €5,500 incl VAT

    Just out of curiousity you mention in your first post "Timber Framed Composite Double Doors" is there any timber in them at all ?


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    #16
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    What exactly is guaranteed for 10 years ?

    The glass ?
    The locking mechanism ?
    The hinges ?
    The seals ?
    The surface finish ?
    The plastic, sorry I mean the compression moulded glass fibre and high density polyurethane ?


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    #17
    48nico
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭48nico


    the double Door design is elaborate with glass decor in each of the doudle doors the back door is plain
    Sub-frame System
    􀃠 Composite construction engineered sub-frame
    􀃠 Laminated PVC-Ue profiles to outer edge laminated to
    timber inner frame
    Sorry the warranty is for 5 years on door leafs,paint,double glazed glass,The lock, hinges and handles have a 1 year manufacturer’s warranty


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    #18
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    If the design is elaborate and includes decorative glass then I think the price seems reasonable value.

    If you are serious about going ahead, I would give them a call and do a final haggle you should be able to get at least another 5%-10% off. If you think it should be 50% less then that is less likely to happen.

    Thank you for clarifying the information about the "10 Year Guarantee"


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    #19
    imitation
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    I would get another 2 quotes, I have had companies chance there arm plenty of times charging well above the actual market value of building stuff.

    In my opinion I would be thinking about half what that company is charging would be a reasonable price, maybe even a bit on the high side. Then again, if the door is far above what any other company can do it might be worth it, either way the important thing is that your getting value for money instead of lining some chancer's pockets


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    #20
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    Its a quote for a door,not for building an extension,and its a silly/stupidly high quote at that.:eek:


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    #21
    braftery
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭braftery


    +1 to imitation's suggestion about getting more quotes, just make sure you are pricing like for like.

    If the products and the service are the same on all the quotes then the lowest quote will be the best value.

    If not, then the cheapest quote may NOT be the best value, it is simply the cheapest.


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    #22
    48nico
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭48nico


    Just to update i got more quotes,i picked one another large company and they can do the exact same for 4,900euros.so i will let you how it turns out many thanks for your imput


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    #23
    kboc
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    i have 2 hardwood timber doors. i need some draft excluders now, as the heat has just been turned on. Can anybody suggest where i can get good ones, or maybe pm me a name of some types.

    thanks


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    #24
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    kboc wrote: »
    i have 2 hardwood timber doors. i need some draft excluders now, as the heat has just been turned on. Can anybody suggest where i can get good ones, or maybe pm me a name of some types.

    thanks


    You obviously have never gone to a decent DIY store or a builders providers/merchants then??

    BnQ,Woodies,TJ O Mahonies,Chadwicks,Heaton Buckleys,Brooks,Grange Builders Providers.

    It aint rocket science.


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    #25
    kboc
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    paddy147 wrote: »
    You obviously have never gone to a decent DIY store or a builders providers/merchants then??

    BnQ,Woodies,TJ O Mahonies,Chadwicks,Heaton Buckleys,Brooks,Grange Builders Providers.

    It aint rocket science.

    good ones i said, not sh1te ones


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    #26
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    paddy147 wrote: »
    BnQ,Woodies,TJ O Mahonies,Chadwicks,Heaton Buckleys,Brooks,Grange Builders Providers.
    kboc wrote: »
    good ones i said, not sh1te ones
    If you cant find good ones in the places listed above then you may try looking somewhere in Europe as the best draft excluders I have seen are stocked by the above businesses.


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    #27
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    kboc wrote: »
    good ones i said, not sh1te ones


    So all of the above places are sh!t then??????

    You obviously havent looked around much and dont get out very much then these days.:rolleyes:


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    #28
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Leave it at that. Attack the post and not the poster.


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    #29
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    muffler wrote: »
    Leave it at that. Attack the post and not the poster.


    I am attacking the post.Its not very hard to go into any of the diy stores/builders providers mentioned above,and ask the question or even maybe actually go to the section where they would stock doors/windows,seals,draught excluders and even the section where they would stock insulation products.;)


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    #30
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,820 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I asked you to leave it at that, you didnt and now you have an official warning. Just make sure it doesnt happen again.


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    #31
    48nico
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭48nico


    48nico wrote: »
    Just to update i got more quotes,i picked one another large company and they can do the exact same for 4,900euros.so i will let you how it turns out many thanks for your imput

    Update, have been waiting since november for the company to install the doors,asked for my deposit back today,so many excuses from them ,damage door ,frame wrong size,so im back to square one:(,


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