National Student March 3rd November + General Fees related discussions

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 04:16PM

Must be our friend from yesterday, don't think it was anyone from FEE, enthusiastic chap, you have to give him that

Daemos · 18-10-2010 04:18PM

Unless he changed his name in the past 24 hours I don't think it was

He was from the USI

ILA · 18-10-2010 04:20PM

Daemos wrote: »

He did put me off though when he said around half the people in the place were on a grant? That can't be right, can it?

I've been wondering the same in Carlow. I'd say it a conservative estimate would be 40%, its amazing the number of people receiving grants, including those from high income families who get through loopholes.

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 05:02PM

FYR wrote: »

I don't see the event as being a suitable platform for pursuing any individual group's political agenda.
We should go as one unified student body and I feel that no groupd should distribute their literature or display their banners. It would be far more effective if we marched as one.

Have to agree with this. It just drives more and more people away when socialist groups or other political parties hijack an event and use it for their own purposes.

I can see why they won't agree with that though, it is a nice fundraising opportunity

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 05:13PM

It's an opportunity to introduce people to points of view that they're never exposed to in their day to day lives. I doubt anyone's gonna be asking for any money on the day though

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 05:22PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

It's an opportunity to introduce people to points of view that they're never exposed to in their day to day lives. I doubt anyone's gonna be asking for any money on the day though

Ha, I will believe that when I see it.

Are you not a member of SWP, the student section? I can see you mean well, but it will just be damaging to the march if the SWP and all its other front groups are politicizing it for their own purposes. It would be much more effective if it is one voice and one aim.

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 05:29PM

Firstly, it is a political issue, there's no escaping that. And the SWP or any other group I'm involved with has no intentions of hijacking the protest. We'll be there to march with all students but we'll also use the march as an opportunity to talk to students and give them insight into our views and policies. We certainly won't be fundraising on the day and we realise that it's a march for all students who feel angered by the inevitable cuts, whatever way they lean politically, to voice their anger. We're all for that

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 05:51PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Firstly, it is a political issue, there's no escaping that. And the SWP or any other group I'm involved with has no intentions of hijacking the protest. We'll be there to march with all students but we'll also use the march as an opportunity to talk to students and give them insight into our views and policies. We certainly won't be fundraising on the day and we realise that it's a march for all students who feel angered by the inevitable cuts, whatever way they lean politically, to voice their anger. We're all for that

Okay, that is fair enough, so by saying that you have no intention of hijacking the march, that would imply that your party wont have banners or any sign of their logo present? Is that correct? Also, will that mean no person, representing your party, will give interviews to the media as a representative of your party, and if they do give interviews, only as a representative of the student body?

The thing is, if the march is surrounded by banners or posters with the SWP, or fronts, logos, then its credibilty will be undermined. Do you understand?

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 06:03PM

So you expect everyone to turn up in generic white t-shirts or something, remaining completely apolitical throughout? And I never said any of those things. I said we'd neither hijack or fundraise. But we'll have banners, flags, posters, placards, themed monkeys and dancing girls. Like every other party/group/football team in attendance.

You're being silly to be honest in expecting people not to politicise this event. It is political, get over it. It's also your opinion that the march's credibility will be undermined if political organisations make themselves seen. Your opinion, not fact.

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 06:16PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

So you expect everyone to turn up in generic white t-shirts or something, remaining completely apolitical throughout? And I never said any of those things. I said we'd neither hijack or fundraise. But we'll have banners, flags, posters, placards, themed monkeys and dancing girls. Like every other party/group/football team in attendance.

You're being silly to be honest in expecting people not to politicise this event. It is political, get over it. It's also your opinion that the march's credibility will be undermined if political organisations make themselves seen. Your opinion, not fact.

Na, you expect to see people wearing stuff regarding their colleges or clubs/societies not political groups though. I would not like to see any political party there trying to get votes from the crowd because it is a nice opportunity.

You have pretty much just admitted that you guys want to politicise it, and for what, for your own aims of course, nothing to do with students really, so thanks.

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 06:33PM

You're contradicting yourself completely btw but I can see you're determined to make your own conclusions anyway. We're not interested in votes either but you can spin it whatever way you want. I suggest you don't attend if you have such a big issue with it

irish_goat · 18-10-2010 06:36PM

Tax those earning 100k by 70%, it's not like they'll leave the country and go earn better money elsewhere or anything...

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 07:06PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself completely btw but I can see you're determined to make your own conclusions anyway. We're not interested in votes either but you can spin it whatever way you want. I suggest you don't attend if you have such a big issue with it

I will gladly attend and support a protest by students for students.
I would not attend or support a protest which is hijacked by political parties for there own publicity and to gain attention.

Simple

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 07:23PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Tax those earning 100k by 70%, it's not like they'll leave the country and go earn better money elsewhere or anything...

Oh yes, everyone will leave. Just like all the multi nationals would leave instantly if we upped corporation tax. You can drag your kids and house and cars and...oh wait...no one would actually leave en masse. Just like the mncs wouldn't abandon billion euro capital investments. Scaremongering from right wingers is what all that is. How many people do you personally know who have family ties and debts here who would actually emigrate if taxes on the richest in society were increase?

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 07:24PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I will gladly attend and support a protest by students for students.
I would not attend or support a protest which is hijacked by political parties for there own publicity and to gain attention.

Simple

Sounds like you've the perfect excuse not to go either way so

The Waltzing Consumer · 18-10-2010 07:49PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Sounds like you've the perfect excuse not to go either way so

Ha, well man, I was not the only person who had a problem with using this student march for political party purposes, and we disagreed on that point, but I never suggested to you that you not attend, whereas you have suggested to me not to attend.

LeixlipRed · 18-10-2010 08:08PM

Haha, I was being ironic. I couldn't care less what you do. I just think your angle is to have a ,"I told you so" attitude. i.e. You'll be the one on here the day after the march saying you didn't go because you knew that x, y and z would happen and most of the students were just there to get drunk and so on so forth. I hope you attend and I hope you engage with all the groups there.

I'll be on the FEE stall in the Arts Block on Wednesday if you want to come and debate with me about the issues too. Despite what you may think of my politics, I'm a friendly chap and not quite so serious in person. In fact I'm the opposite of serious

LeixlipRed · 19-10-2010 12:25AM

FEE are having a public meeting on Thursday in the SU (Rooms 2-3) to discuss the proposed cutbacks in the budget. I'd encourage anyone who leans to the left or anyone at all who's interested in debating the issues to attend.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=122678851123162

smiles302 · 19-10-2010 10:11AM

Fight cutbacks altogether? Won't there have to be some cutbacks?

LeixlipRed · 19-10-2010 11:02AM

It's called building for a protest. Some people prefer to anticipate things rather than sit around until they've happened. There's going to be at least 4 billion euro of cutbacks in this budget and as much as 7 billion if you believe someone like economist Eunan King. There will definitely be cuts in the education sector, that good enough for you?

funky penguin · 19-10-2010 01:01PM

Everyone, calm down please.

I know it's a hot topic, but let's not have tempers to match. I'm not singling anyone out, but I don't have the time/inclination to throw water over this if it starts to grow into a nasty ass flame war.

In a slightly draconian measure.....don't argue with me on this or I'll ban you for a month.

LeixlipRed · 19-10-2010 01:11PM

I don't see anything but heated debate. There's bound to be a lot of that in this thread over the next few weeks and it'd be a pity to see threads locked, etc,. Obviously if it descends into petty name calling or whatever that might be necessary but I don't think there's been anything close to that so far!

funky penguin · 19-10-2010 02:01PM

I never said there was. You could say I'm anticipating/preempting it.

Back on topic please.

Lord TSC · 19-10-2010 02:46PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

It's called building for a protest. Some people prefer to anticipate things rather than sit around until they've happened. There's going to be at least 4 billion euro of cutbacks in this budget and as much as 7 billion if you believe someone like economist Eunan King. There will definitely be cuts in the education sector, that good enough for you?

Without meaning to restart our discussion again, I do have to wonder...if you don't want cutbacks in education, where do you think there should be cutbacks? Because there will be cutbacks, like it or not. They are needed because if our government doesn't make them, then the EU will make them for us. So if you don't want to see them in education, where do you propose they come from?

And I'm not talking about generating money. We've discussed that and we've agreed to disagree. But generating the money is only half the battle...

LeixlipRed · 19-10-2010 03:03PM

I've attached the SWP's alternative economic agenda.

Riamfada · 19-10-2010 03:07PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

I've attached the SWP's alternative economic agenda.

Thats a very scary document. Lets hope they never come in.

smiles302 · 19-10-2010 03:24PM

Agreed, it doesn't seem realistic...

Anyone understand what would happen if we let all the banks go under? (Genuine question, think my last question came across badly)

Plus assuming there must be some cuts in education, is an increase in the registration fee not the logical way to go? Where else could you take money from...

Riamfada · 19-10-2010 03:28PM

Well firstly if we let all the banks go under our credit rating internationally would nosedive and we would not be able to borrow to meet our debts, gards, teachers wouldnt get paid. Essentially we would turn into Greece and the country would cease to function.

Secondly, as a recent graduate I find the entire free fees system a joke in this current climate. It is a remnant of the celtic tiger when we had the money to educate everyone, now all we have are thousands of unemployed graduates with no prospects and next year we will just be pumping more into the system.

Students are greedy imo, celtic tiger babys.

Vamp369 · 19-10-2010 03:56PM

Why should education be a right and not a priviliege? Nothing in life is free, lets face facts, you want something, you pay for it. If I earned 100k a year, I would be pretty pissed if I got taxed 70% to pay for someone elses education. I agree with taxing people but with in reason.

LeixlipRed · 19-10-2010 04:02PM

If we let the banks go under we just sell our debt elsewhere. Anyway, SWP have no aims to come to power so don't be worrying about it.

National Student March 3rd November + General Fees related discussions

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