I AMsterdam 2010

seanynova · 03-10-2010 06:56PM

misty floyd wrote: »

what LSR are you going to hit next weekend Sean?

was origionally 18miles but might make it 20m but still keep my weekly mileage where it should be....with 2 rest days....and i missed a 22miler when i was injured so its like splitting the differrence....last time i did an actual LSR(a long time ago) it felt very comfortable and it was a 22miler so i think ill be ok at 20......how bout yourself?

good job on the 23miler today....savage stuff...what happened the lunaracers? saw a few of those today at the race!

misty floyd · 03-10-2010 06:57PM

3 weeks before my last marathon I did a 4/3/2/1 session at 6:50. It was hard going but come race day I couldn't believe how easy 6:50 felt, seriously I was chatting at one stage. Same goes for you for 6:30 or whatever your PMP is.

misty floyd · 03-10-2010 07:03PM

seanynova wrote: »

......how bout yourself?

good job on the 23miler today....savage stuff...what happened the lunaracers? saw a few of those today at the race!

I don't know Sean. I'm doing a big session on Thurs with 4x3m @ 6:50 so I'm not sure if doing another 20 is pushing it. I'll see how I feel and decide then.

Yeah the lunaracers. They are a tight fit (which is fine) but they are a little too long. If I run on them on concrete I can't bring them back. Might just give em a lash casue they are dead comfy.

smmoore79 · 03-10-2010 07:26PM

Theyre some very solid splits. Well done! Did the pace seem comfortable all the way round? Its weird that come race day the sub 7 min splits seem easy enough compared to 7 30 to 7 45 splits in training.

seanynova · 03-10-2010 07:33PM

misty floyd wrote: »

3 weeks before my last marathon I did a 4/3/2/1 session at 6:50. It was hard going but come race day I couldn't believe how easy 6:50 felt, seriously I was chatting at one stage. Same goes for you for 6:30 or whatever your PMP is.

ya i was able to chat today also but just towards the end i found myself working that little bit hard and was worried but on reflection it should be ok after a good taper...

misty floyd wrote: »

I don't know Sean. I'm doing a big session on Thurs with 4x3m @ 6:50 so I'm not sure if doing another 20 is pushing it. I'll see how I feel and decide then.

Yeah the lunaracers. They are a tight fit (which is fine) but they are a little too long. If I run on them on concrete I can't bring them back. Might just give em a lash casue they are dead comfy.

i was goin to wear the flats today but though better of it as my foot could have reacted badly...ill still wear them for the marathon though....if you are not 100% about lunaracers you should prob stick with the brooks to be on the safe side...

smmoore79 wrote: »

Theyre some very solid splits. Well done! Did the pace seem comfortable all the way round? Its weird that come race day the sub 7 min splits seem easy enough compared to 7 30 to 7 45 splits in training.

for most of it i was fine but was working harder towards then end....weird going through 13.1miles at that pace in a race and feeling a little off(compared to 3weeks ago!)....but my HR was in line for me i guess....10bpm less than half HR is prob good considering....

Sosa · 03-10-2010 08:55PM

Thats a great run seany,go ahead and enter Dublin....you will have a good day at the races....no bother to you !

seanynova · 04-10-2010 07:29AM

Just entered DCM '10!

Gringo78 · 05-10-2010 08:27AM

seanynova wrote: »

avHR was 10bpm less than the cork half but i was feeling as tired towards the end and had to work a little extra hard for a PMP run.....

10bpm less than the half is a big differential, means you've a decent gap between marathon pace and LT pace - a gap of 5bpm would suggest more running on the limit so you've got a bit of breathing space there. Throw in a taper and you're sorted.

By the way, i know you said you thought you'd have trouble holding that pace beyond 20 miles but bear in mind its not meant to be easy or feel easy. I did my long runs before Cork at 7:45-8:00 pace and I can honestly say that after 20 miles i would not have been happy to keep going to 26, even at that much slower pace. So don't read too much into that. No matter how well prepared you are, things are going to be tough after 15 miles - just they won't be so tough that you will drop off the pace.

Did you run in the racing flats in the end?

seanynova · 05-10-2010 06:11PM

Gringo78 wrote: »

10bpm less than the half is a big differential, means you've a decent gap between marathon pace and LT pace - a gap of 5bpm would suggest more running on the limit so you've got a bit of breathing space there. Throw in a taper and you're sorted.

By the way, i know you said you thought you'd have trouble holding that pace beyond 20 miles but bear in mind its not meant to be easy or feel easy. I did my long runs before Cork at 7:45-8:00 pace and I can honestly say that after 20 miles i would not have been happy to keep going to 26, even at that much slower pace. So don't read too much into that. No matter how well prepared you are, things are going to be tough after 15 miles - just they won't be so tough that you will drop off the pace.

Did you run in the racing flats in the end?

i think you could be right, well, 170bpm is still very high for 3hours of running but its all relative i guess.....i think after a taper and getting the hydration & nutrition right it will make a big difference.....HR rose a bit but it was more like energy that i was lacking last sunday....

didnt wear the flats in the end, was talking to chinguetti about it before the start but we both agreed the mizuno's would be the better option. ill try the flats again on thursday in the CIT track...

looking forward to giving it a go now but as you said, it aint going to be easy....but at least im better prepared this time round and it will be an honest effort!

seanynova · 05-10-2010 09:53PM

tues 5th, 10m Easy/PMP 1:13:25mins @7:20m/m avHR162

2m Easy + 2m PMP + 2m Easy + 2m PMP + 2m Easy!

2x (2m PMP) Splits:
6:44(167)/6:44(171)
6:47(170)/6:39(174)

pace was all over the place on the second round of PMPs, was going way to fast on the 2nd and the HR shot up, slowed down towards the end but a bad mile...

total weekly mileage: 10m

seanynova · 07-10-2010 08:54PM

thurs 7th, 9.31m Easy/Tempo, 1:05:06mins 6:59@m/m avHR171

2m w/u + 2x (20min Tempo, 3min rest) 0.5m w/d

2x20min Tempo Splits:
6:14(182)/6:21(179)

horizontal rain, more s on the second split....was tired towards the end, hadent eaten since 1pm and finished the run only at 9:30.....so was famished!
happy its done.....but didnt really ge to warm down, track closed

total weekly mileage: 19m

smmoore79 · 08-10-2010 10:42AM

seanynova wrote: »

thurs 7th, 9.31m Easy/Tempo, 1:05:06mins 6:59@m/m avHR171

2m w/u + 2x (20min Tempo, 3min rest) 0.5m w/d

2x20min Tempo Splits:
6:14(182)/6:21(179)

horizontal rain, more s on the second split....was tired towards the end, hadent eaten since 1pm and finished the run only at 9:30.....so was famished!
happy its done.....but didnt really ge to warm down, track closed

total weekly mileage: 19m

very good session there. You seem to have a nice pace goin too. Not long til Dublin..

aero2k · 08-10-2010 11:08AM

Hi Seany,

I was reading your posts on the other thread about heart rate but only saw your race report now.

If the numbers are anything to go by, you're in great shape for a sub-3. Last year the Dublin half was only 4 weeks before DCM, and while I was happy with the run, I was slowing at the end and some of it felt like a struggle. I won't pretend that DCM was easy, but it felt a lot easier on the day.

Incidentally your HM and MP heart rates are pretty much the same as mine were last year.

Take it nice and handy at the start, you've a nice stretch from 4-8 miles through the Phoenix park and you can easily pick up 20-30 secs between 6 and 8 if you need to.

I notice you said your pre-race prep wasn't ideal - you'll find for the big day you're motivated to get everything right, and even if small things go wrong you'll be so focussed they won't bother you. (spoken as a complete control freak!)

seanynova · 08-10-2010 05:29PM

smmoore79 wrote: »

very good session there. You seem to have a nice pace goin too. Not long til Dublin..

well, tempo pace dropped from 6:10/6:12 since the set back but im happy with a tempo pace of under or around 6:20m/m....have 3 more tempo runs so will have a good sub6:20m/m post injury tempo base.

aero2k wrote: »

Hi Seany,

I was reading your posts on the other thread about heart rate but only saw your race report now.

If the numbers are anything to go by, you're in great shape for a sub-3. Last year the Dublin half was only 4 weeks before DCM, and while I was happy with the run, I was slowing at the end and some of it felt like a struggle. I won't pretend that DCM was easy, but it felt a lot easier on the day.

Incidentally your HM and MP heart rates are pretty much the same as mine were last year.

Take it nice and handy at the start, you've a nice stretch from 4-8 miles through the Phoenix park and you can easily pick up 20-30 secs between 6 and 8 if you need to.

I notice you said your pre-race prep wasn't ideal - you'll find for the big day you're motivated to get everything right, and even if small things go wrong you'll be so focussed they won't bother you. (spoken as a complete control freak!)

firstly, i would agree, judging by the half marathon, i was in great shape..... then the injury put a halt to my progress and set me back over a week, lost a bit of fitness but prob not enough to force a change to a +3h marathon.....

its good to hear that you have similar HR stats to myself as on the same day this year you went 2:55(?) in edinburgh, so it gives me a lot of confidence....

im not to bothered about pre-race prep etc now, i know the marathon will be a good experience, ill enjoy it either way, im in with a fighting chance of sub3 and ill be very happy if i get that....but you can be certain if i have anything left in the tank, most of it will be run out before 26.2m...if i can run faster than sub3 then thats what ill go for....sub3 is a milestone but it not a monkey i need to get off my back....yet!

your right, ill be taking it easy at the start cos once my HR rises, it never really comes down unless a big change of pace....im not sure if ill go with the pacers or just run a 6:45m/m on the garmin, (which should put me ahead on the pacers) or run with the pacers until 20m and IF i have more in the tank to run on ahead....but ill decide closer to the day.

(all sounds very contraticting i know but you know what i mean)

aero2k · 08-10-2010 09:59PM

seanynova wrote: »

its good to hear that you have similar HR stats to myself as on the same day this year you went 2:55(?) in edinburgh, so it gives me a lot of confidence....

Actually 2:54:08

, and I'd only done 2 pmp runs faster than 6:40. My official average pace was 6:39 - I lost a lot of time over the last 2-3 miles by not being determined enough. I didn't have the HRM that day but the effort felt similar to DCM '09. I suspect the HR might have been a little higher than 170 due to the heat. (in other words at least 85% of max)

Again, it's amazing how much faster and easier you can go in a goal race compared to training.

I understand what you mean about the contradictions - they'll get sorted out on the day too.

tisnotover · 09-10-2010 10:31AM

Nice PMP session the other day !

Plenty of lads going for sub-3 from Eagle if your interested ? I think they are gonna go with pacers?

Speedy44 · 09-10-2010 01:12PM

tisnotover wrote: »

Nice PMP session the other day !

Plenty of lads going for sub-3 from Eagle if your interested ? I think they are gonna go with pacers?

man, looks like thats going to be a busy group ! Now the question is, how many will be left standing (or running) at the end

seanynova · 09-10-2010 02:13PM

aero2k wrote: »

Actually 2:54:08 , and I'd only done 2 pmp runs faster than 6:40. My official average pace was 6:39 - I lost a lot of time over the last 2-3 miles by not being determined enough. I didn't have the HRM that day but the effort felt similar to DCM '09. I suspect the HR might have been a little higher than 170 due to the heat. (in other words at least 85% of max)

Again, it's amazing how much faster and easier you can go in a goal race compared to training.

I understand what you mean about the contradictions - they'll get sorted out on the day too.

that is one on those cases where 1min really makes a big difference...opps....that was a fantastic time in those condidions in edinburgh, i bommed at around 24m that day....6:39m/m is a fair going in 25/26deg heat! do you find you HR rises towards the end of marathons? my HR rises towards the end of LSRs by as much as 10bpm, that would put me running the final miles around 180+bpm, i guess that same as my half marathon HR but its got to be harder!

tisnotover wrote: »

Nice PMP session the other day !

Plenty of lads going for sub-3 from Eagle if your interested ? I think they are gonna go with pacers?

i ran the last few miles in behind an eagle man that day was talking to him after, said i knew you but forgot to give him my name....fella with long(ish) hair, he was wearing a white hat(any help?) last mile he clipped on a bit but prob finished around 1:39:XX....
im on the fence regarding the pacers, ill decide closer to the day....but it might be the way to go if conditions as not favourable...i could always use angela mccann as a pacer, should be able to keep with her, although thats assuming she raced cork half and didnt use it as a training run for the dublin half...2min difference!!!!!!

Speedy44 wrote: »

man, looks like thats going to be a busy group ! Now the question is, how many will be left standing (or running) at the end

had to call id say, you could expect a lot to be dropping off the pace as the race goes on....

seanynova · 09-10-2010 06:27PM

sat 9th, 20m Easy, 2:39:37mins @7:58m/m avHR164

decided to do this today as it gives me that 1extra day of taper, 20miles was a bad idea 2weeks out from the marathon, but i had 18 planned anyway so added the extra 2 after my injury week....
run was hard, prob the hardest LSR ive done in this training(not including LSRs with Tempo miles&PMP)
it was windy though so myabe that had something to do with it...

officially starting taper now, 16days to the race....mileage is dropping, intensity isint but quantity of tempo miles will drop.

total weekly mileage: 39m

seanynova · 10-10-2010 05:06PM

sun 10th, 6m Easy, 47:50mins @7:58m/m avHR157

i feel tired after this week....mileage drops again next week but still 2 quality sessions....hopefully ill be more refreshed though.

total weekly mileage: 45m

seanynova · 13-10-2010 06:40PM

wed 13th, 6m Easy, 43:54mins @7:19m/m avHR169

threw in a few strides to this, brought the pace doan and raised the HR a bit but i was running on the fast side of easy for the whole thing.....tempo tomorrow....

total weekly mileage: 6m

Speedy44 · 13-10-2010 09:04PM

seanynova wrote: »

wed 13th, 6m Easy, 43:54mins @7:19m/m avHR169

threw in a few strides to this, brought the pace doan and raised the HR a bit but i was running on the fast side of easy for the whole thing.....tempo tomorrow....

total weekly mileage: 6m

7:19 isn't easy Seany

seanynova · 13-10-2010 09:55PM

Speedy44 wrote: »

7:19 isn't easy Seany

the HR will tell ya that! i lacked a bit of dicipline alright but had just finished an exam....also 5 of the miles were around 7:20-7:30, there was one with strides @6:40m/m....

looking forward to tomorrow although my foot is a bit sore from the strides...hmmm.....still not out of the woods!!!

Gringo78 · 14-10-2010 07:47AM

seanynova wrote: »

the HR will tell ya that! i lacked a bit of dicipline alright but had just finished an exam....also 5 of the miles were around 7:20-7:30, there was one with strides @6:40m/m....

looking forward to tomorrow although my foot is a bit sore from the strides...hmmm.....still not out of the woods!!!

Careful Seany! If you've a niggle scale back the tempo....you'll get no training benefit from it this close to marathon.

seanynova · 14-10-2010 08:04PM

thurs 14th, 11.15m 1:18:19mins @7:01m/m avHR166
20min w/p, 20min Tempo, 20min Easy, 9min Tempo(?) 10min w/d

20min Tempo Split:
6:14(178)

9min Tempo Split: (would have gone on a bit but bumped into a mate a ran with him for a bit before cool down)
6:15(176)

i dont know if ive lost fitness or drive or what but didnt enjoy this run and am not enjoying the running these days, a lot of it has to do with being on a downer regarding fitness and injury worries.....college stress etc....so...not feeling the running love.
ill still go for the jugular on the 25th but only cos it cost me 90euro(and we talk about rip off commercial marathons!)

total weekly mileage: 17m

Gringo78 wrote: »

Careful Seany! If you've a niggle scale back the tempo....you'll get no training benefit from it this close to marathon.

i know i should be more cautios but if im going to race DCM i feel i need to have the threshold level solidified at sub 6:20m/m pace....you can say "i told ya so" afterwards if i have to pull out at mile 18 and not run for 3months with cronic tendonitis! but on the plus side, ill have more time for my college project!

Speedy44 · 15-10-2010 07:01AM

seanynova wrote: »

thurs 14th, 11.15m 1:18:19mins @7:01m/m avHR166
20min w/p, 20min Tempo, 20min Easy, 9min Tempo(?) 10min w/d

20min Tempo Split:
6:14(178)

9min Tempo Split: (would have gone on a bit but bumped into a mate a ran with him for a bit before cool down)
6:15(176)

i dont know if ive lost fitness or drive or what but didnt enjoy this run and am not enjoying the running these days, a lot of it has to do with being on a downer regarding fitness and injury worries.....college stress etc....so...not feeling the running love.
ill still go for the jugular on the 25th but only cos it cost me 90euro(and we talk about rip off commercial marathons!)

total weekly mileage: 17m

i know i should be more cautios but if im going to race DCM i feel i need to have the threshold level solidified at sub 6:20m/m pace....you can say "i told ya so" afterwards if i have to pull out at mile 18 and not run for 3months with cronic tendonitis! but on the plus side, ill have more time for my college project!

That was a good session seaney. Believe me, I know its hard, but you should really hit the tempo's on the head now and have faith in your ability on the day. This tapering sh*t has a way of wrecking our heads me thinks and the body doesn't know what the hell is going on, it'll all come good on the day, and it it doesn't, at least we know we've given it a hell of a lash.

smmoore79 · 15-10-2010 09:11AM

Yeah, what happens on the day happens. No point in killin yourself now, though I did a bit of a tempo myself yesterday so shouldnt really preach!!! Just aerobic runs for me from now on. I think on the day, race pace seems a lot easier than tryin it on a dark thursday evening alone, thats what i hope anyway!

Gringo78 · 15-10-2010 09:23AM

I did a lot of PMP miles during my taper....on easy days I might have just done 1 mile in the middle of the run or I might have done 0.25 - 0.5m PMP / 0.5m easy many times. On 'harder' days I might have done 2-3 PMP miles in a row or maybe tempo intervals - 1 mile intervals at tempo pace with long recoveries. None of the sessions were overly hard but satisfied my pent up energy requiring a fast run sometimes. Also, when I did short interval session at PMP (the 0.25m reps at PMP) it was like a game, try to hit PMP without looking at the Garmin, made me very aware of what PMP felt like.

seanynova · 15-10-2010 12:50PM

Speedy44 wrote: »

That was a good session seaney. Believe me, I know its hard, but you should really hit the tempo's on the head now and have faith in your ability on the day. This tapering sh*t has a way of wrecking our heads me thinks and the body doesn't know what the hell is going on, it'll all come good on the day, and it it doesn't, at least we know we've given it a hell of a lash.

session was good in terms of hitting the right pace within the correct HR zone etc, but i just wasnt enjoying it....even the 20min in between i stopped about 3 or 4 times, toilet breaks, stretch breaks etc....but basically couldnt be ar*ed going on....not sure ill drop the tempos, they are in the programme, which has served me well.....but only 2 more tempo runs, 1 4x1200 so very small in comparison....will do that next wednesday and have 4days rest(or easy) till the race.

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yeah, what happens on the day happens. No point in killin yourself now, though I did a bit of a tempo myself yesterday so shouldnt really preach!!! Just aerobic runs for me from now on. I think on the day, race pace seems a lot easier than tryin it on a dark thursday evening alone, thats what i hope anyway!

as above ill stick to the programme so have more tempo miles but i may still not enjoy them!

Gringo78 wrote: »

I did a lot of PMP miles during my taper....on easy days I might have just done 1 mile in the middle of the run or I might have done 0.25 - 0.5m PMP / 0.5m easy many times. On 'harder' days I might have done 2-3 PMP miles in a row or maybe tempo intervals - 1 mile intervals at tempo pace with long recoveries. None of the sessions were overly hard but satisfied my pent up energy requiring a fast run sometimes. Also, when I did short interval session at PMP (the 0.25m reps at PMP) it was like a game, try to hit PMP without looking at the Garmin, made me very aware of what PMP felt like.

thats a very good way of looking at the PMP reps, as you know it has to be comfortable yet quick....i didnt look at the pace last night for the 2nd tempo run and it worked out well(pace wise)....i would have gotten in a lot more PMP miles since the half only the injury screwed that up.....pity cos thay are good sessions...

seanynova · 16-10-2010 06:20PM

sat 16th, 6m Easy, 46:24mins @7:44m/m avHR161

ran this a bit on the fast side, but it felt good so i went with it....glad i was feeling ok as the running isint going great lately.....

went to the physio again yesterday, a different one....went well have another apointment next week until then im wearing a medical tape type strapping, seams to work!

total weekly mileage: 23m

Edit, oh and wish i was in amsterdam right now!

I AMsterdam 2010

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