I AMsterdam 2010

smmoore79

Well done on sticking to your task Seany. It must have been difficult not to race when people are passing you by near the end. I know I wouldnt have the discipline to keep a steady tempo pace :rolleyes:

theboyblunder

misty floyd wrote: »

Great session Seany, you're nailing things. Keep it up.

+1 thats a really great session. to be comfortable at 6'12 is impressive for a man in the middle of a mara programme

seanynova

misty floyd wrote: »

ah yeah, time flys by doing them. I like em. By the way, I would say the 6'20 pace for the half would mean the sub 3 is well on...no?

in theroy, but im looking at a 6:20pace half as a minimium, TNO ran an 82:XX before he did the cork marathon sub3 so, thats my benchmark for sub3 glory....last half i did was 84:19 and i didnt make sub3, even though mcmillan, daniels etc would suggest so....

seanynova

smmoore79 wrote: »

Well done on sticking to your task Seany. It must have been difficult not to race when people are passing you by near the end. I know I wouldnt have the discipline to keep a steady tempo pace :rolleyes:

ya, im trying to concentrate on the marathon now, but one of your old foes passed me in the last 200m, a girl! but i jumped onto the footpath as to not obstruct her!

seanynova

theboyblunder wrote: »

+1 thats a really great session. to be comfortable at 6'12 is impressive for a man in the middle of a mara programme

cheers, its prob earier in a race though, and 2nd time round was a little harder, although 1st half of the loop is the easiest which shows good splits....the 3rd split killed me at the end....dame hill!

tisnotover

seanynova wrote: »

ya, im trying to concentrate on the marathon now, but one of your old foes passed me in the last 200m, a girl! but i jumped onto the footpath as to not obstruct her!

Results up here if ya haven't seen them, I think I know that girl that passed ya, I'm surprised ya didn't hitch a ride

https://sites.google.com/site/runninginireland/ballycoyyon_5m_2010

seanynova

tisnotover wrote: »

Results up here if ya haven't seen them, I think I know that girl that passed ya, I'm surprised ya didn't hitch a ride

https://sites.google.com/site/runninginireland/ballycoyyon_5m_2010

cheers for the link, i was happy enough to let the girl off,she was like myself, colour coordinated haha....i ran with that group for most of the race but passed them on the mile3 hill, most people slowed down on that, but most of them passed me on the decent again as i was keeping pace :rolleyes:

seanynova

fri 27th, 5m Recovery, 42:27mins @8:29m/m avHR150

nice slow pace, pity about the high HR....whatever about going good on the tempos, ill wont go sub3 until i get my HR in line with TBB's!!!!

rest day tomorrow

total weekly mileage: 50m

theboyblunder

seanynova wrote: »

fri 27th, 5m Recovery, 42:27mins @8:29m/m avHR150

nice slow pace, pity about the high HR....whatever about going good on the tempos, ill wont go sub3 until i get my HR in line with TBB's!!!!

rest day tomorrow

total weekly mileage: 50m

hahaha that made me lol

HR's are very individual. I have a low HR on runs etc in general but I dont have access to high HR's either. If im up at 160 in a race im starting to feel it, 165 is heading for serious trouble and 170+ is defibrillator time if the line is not right in sight.

Others on here could sustain 170+ for miles and miles in a race but have higher HRs than me on slow runs. Wouldnt think about comparing HR's with others too much, watching your own though is useful I think.

I am never comfortable at 6'12/mile - I reckon you have the speed to go for it and its miles @ PMP that will help now. Looking good.

seanynova

theboyblunder wrote: »

hahaha that made me lol

HR's are very individual. I have a low HR on runs etc in general but I dont have access to high HR's either. If im up at 160 in a race im starting to feel it, 165 is heading for serious trouble and 170+ is defibrillator time if the line is not right in sight.

Others on here could sustain 170+ for miles and miles in a race but have higher HRs than me on slow runs. Wouldnt think about comparing HR's with others too much, watching your own though is useful I think.

I am never comfortable at 6'12/mile - I reckon you have the speed to go for it and its miles @ PMP that will help now. Looking good.

cheers, maybe your right, im glad im able to keep an eye on it....last time i tried PMPs i failed miserably but have another next week so hopefully ill have a better go at it!
for the big race.....ill know more in 2 weeks after the half marathon if im in with a shout or not!
sub83.....sub83....sub83....sub83....haha

seanynova

sun 29th, 20.69m, 2:37:14mins @7:35m/m avHR165 15degs??

2m(ish) easy + 2x 12min Tempo, 2min rest + 10m Easy + 15min Tempo + 2m Easy

2x12min tempo splits(avHR):
6:16(178)/6:14(179)

10m Easy:
7:57(162)

15min Tempo split(avHR):
6:14(177)

(+0.3m extra after garmin workout had stopped to make 21m for the run)

1st 2 tempo splits were hard, HR shows that....didnt sleep well last night, tired this morning, the 15min tempo split was going to be up to 20mins but i was running out of steam, and i decided that 15min(as recommended by daniels training plan) was enough. the last 2 miles were a slog, pretty tired and had a small hill to climb but got through teh run all the same!

total weekly mileage: 71m

tisnotover

savage session, well done!

smmoore79

Yep, thats good runnin there Seany. And yer already up to 20 miles!!!! Im at 17 now, felt good to get it done today so gettin close to the magic 20 :rolleyes:. well done on a solid run all the same..

seanynova

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yep, thats good runnin there Seany. And yer already up to 20 miles!!!! Im at 17 now, felt good to get it done today so gettin close to the magic 20 :rolleyes:. well done on a solid run all the same..

cheers,
wouldnt worry too much about that, looking at P&D you have 5weeks to get LSRs in and your doing a half marathon? within that time....

ill be happy if i can get a few PMP miles together over the next few weeks....

seanynova

Week 9 will hopefully go something like this:

Mon: 6m Easy
Tues: 15m Easy
Wed: 6m Easy incl strides
Thurs: 13m Easy/Tempo
Fri: Rest
Sat: 5m Easy
Sun: 19m Easy/PMP

Total proposed weekly mileage: 64m

seanynova

mon 30th, 6m, 48:14mins, @ 8:02m/m avHR154

legs felt ok this morning but during the run in the afternoon it was hard to turn em over....

was thinking on while running(as you do) that i might be making a mistake in my training approach, im doing rec/tempo/rec/LSR/rec etc...
and even though daniels recommends approx 8:00m/m(rec/easy pace) for all but the 2 quality runs, i feel like i should be getting in some faster but aerobic runs also, like 7:20-7:30m/m or something...
need to try and work a few of those in soon i think...maybe as part of my med long run, a few miles at faster aerobic might help...

anyway...med long tomorrow with hills, should i run the hills fast or slow, any ideas???

total weekly mileage: 6m

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

mon 30th, 6m, 48:14mins, @ 8:02m/m avHR154

legs felt ok this morning but during the run in the afternoon it was hard to turn em over....

was thinking on while running(as you do) that i might be making a mistake in my training approach, im doing rec/tempo/rec/LSR/rec etc...
and even though daniels recommends approx 8:00m/m(rec/easy pace) for all but the 2 quality runs, i feel like i should be getting in some faster but aerobic runs also, like 7:20-7:30m/m or something...
need to try and work a few of those in soon i think...maybe as part of my med long run, a few miles at faster aerobic might help...

anyway...med long tomorrow with hills, should i run the hills fast or slow, any ideas???

total weekly mileage: 6m

After I bombed at last years DCM, this is after getting in some great training (peaked at 85mls), I decided to get a physiological test done in Trinity. The guy who conducted the test, Bernard Dunne, said that I had been doing my easy runs far too easy, as in 8min ml pace. He said that they were in reality only junk mls.

He gave me my HR ranges to aim for, my easy run is 140-155bpm, which equates to 7:20-40/ml, depending on work, sleep, life etc.

As I heard an recent poster say, LSR's will only get you used to running LSR's.

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

After I bombed at last years DCM, this is after getting in some great training (peaked at 85mls), I decided to get a physiological test done in Trinity. The guy who conducted the test, Bernard Dunne, said that I had been doing my easy runs far too easy, as in 8min ml pace. He said that they were in reality only junk mls.

He gave me my HR ranges to aim for, my easy run is 140-155bpm, which equates to 7:20-40/ml, depending on work, sleep, life etc.

As I heard an recent poster say, LSR's will only get you used to running LSR's.

i hear what your saying, but it seams my 8:00m/m pace gives me a HR in the 155bpm range!!! thats the high end of the scale for P&D/Daniels HR recommendations and for my 6:15-6:20m/m tempos my HR is at 176-177bpm, again, the higher end of the HR scale....

so i wonder, are they junk miles? or, are they good, just slow miles....if so, would going any faster, say 7:20m/m be any better, with a higher HR?

tisnotover

seanynova wrote: »

i hear what your saying, but it seams my 8:00m/m pace gives me a HR in the 155bpm range!!! thats the high end of the scale for P&D/Daniels HR recommendations and for my 6:15-6:20m/m tempos my HR is at 176-177bpm, again, the higher end of the HR scale....

so i wonder, are they junk miles? or, are they good, just slow miles....if so, would going any faster, say 7:20m/m be any better, with a higher HR?

your 8min/mile pace and hr are very similar to where mine were at start of year when I was marathon training !! also similar would be the tempo pace and hr.

Two options I went by for easy runs, keep the hr below 155 and/or keep the pace in/around 8min/mile. as time goes by, you see a lower hr for the same pace. I never went and ran say 5miles at 7:15 pace or something, but this is Mr. Conservative ure talking to here!

MAny different ways of skinning a cat as they say, but I ran easy on those days, keeping fresh for harder days such as intervals or tempos/marathon-paced runs.

seanynova

tisnotover wrote: »

your 8min/mile pace and hr are very similar to where mine were at start of year when I was marathon training !! also similar would be the tempo pace and hr.

Two options I went by for easy runs, keep the hr below 155 and/or keep the pace in/around 8min/mile. as time goes by, you see a lower hr for the same pace. I never went and ran say 5miles at 7:15 pace or something, but this is Mr. Conservative ure talking to here!

MAny different ways of skinning a cat as they say, but I ran easy on those days, keeping fresh for harder days such as intervals or tempos/marathon-paced runs.

ya, i guess your right and daniels plan says the same, easy running on the other days....didnt you do 3 hard sessions a week? interval/PMP/long...

i might just have to up the intensity of my tuesday(med long) run and it will be a similar plan to your, only, tempo runs instead of interval.....and obviously get in more PMP miles!!!

so might be:
easy
med long(incl hills or PMP)
easy
tempo
rest
easy
LSR(incl tempo/PMP)

seanynova

tues 31st, 15m, 1:52:37mins @7:30m/m avHR163 + 822ft of climbing!

this was a hard run, did 2 loops of blarney st, about 282ft climb for each! so its good training for the Cork half marathon next week...ran these steadyish, well kept pace around 7:30m/m which was good going...
after those loops i went on to do another 7 or 8 miles around the usual route...was tired and dehydrated towards the end which made my 2m at PMP 6:46/6:59m/m alond the straight road very hard...so eased up before the end of the 2nd mile...

slow recovery tomorrow i think!

total weekly mileage: 21m

seanynova

wed 1st, 6m recovery, 50:58mins @8:29m/m avHR149

cant say much about this, was slow...probably so slow that my form might have suffered, didnt bother with the strides as yesterdays session was hard enough...

tempo tomorrow night, 2x20min tempo, but might try do 40min straight...similar to P&D tempo runs of 6 or 7miles straight.....hmmmm....ill see how i feel tomorrow, tired now

total weekly mileage: 27m

seanynova

thurs 2nd, 13m Easy/Tempo, 1:31:34mins @7:02m/m avHR164
3m Easy + 40min Tempo + 3.5m Easy

• 3m Easy w/u: 7:58m/m
• 40min Tempo Split: 6:12m/m(178)
• 3.5m Easy w/d: 7:46m/m

decided to do a combined 2x20min tempo, which is kinda similar to the P&D 6 or 7 miles Tempo session....ended up being 6.44miles in my case. this was tough, there was a wind blowing on the marina coast and was much harder running on my own, compared to last week in the race, pace was the same as last week but it just worked out like that....might have been working a little too hard for tempo though, but my avHR was only 1bpm higher than my usual for tempo running....

total weekly mileage: 40m

Speedy44

seanynova wrote: »

thurs 2nd, 13m Easy/Tempo, 1:31:34mins @7:02m/m avHR164
3m Easy + 40min Tempo + 3.5m Easy

• 3m Easy w/u: 7:58m/m
• 40min Tempo Split: 6:12m/m(178)
• 3.5m Easy w/d: 7:36m/m

decided to do a combined 2x20min tempo, which is kinda similar to the P&D 6 or 7 miles Tempo session....ended up being 6.44miles in my case. this was tough, there was a wind blowing on the marina coast and was much harder running on my own, compared to last week in the race, pace was the same as last week but it just worked out like that....might have been working a little too hard for tempo though, but my avHR was only 1bpm higher than my usual for tempo running....

total weekly mileage: 40m

wow, great session Seany, your flying it ................

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

wow, great session Seany, your flying it ................

yup, good session....but....i "might" just be pushing it a little, a tempo pace of 6:15-6:18m/m might suit me a little better....will know next week after the race i suppose!

seanynova

fri 3rd, 5m Recovery, 39:15mins @7:51m/m avHR153

decided to do this today as was feeling fresh and it would give me a day off tomorrow to rest for the PMP session on sunday. did 5x20sec strides also, which increased the avHR from 150 to 153....and brought the pace down a little also.

hoping to get a solid pmp session done on sunday, failed at the last attempt!!!

total weekly mileage: 45m

seanynova

sun 5th, 20m, 2:21:45mins @7:05m/m avHR167, was humid enough though.

2.4m easy w/u @ 8:08m/m(149)
15m PMP @ 6:47m/m(172)
2.6m easy w/d @ 7:50m/m(156)

im going to give myself a pass for this one, a good hard session but not completed with flying colours!
after 7 miles of PMP i had to stop, was feeling it, HR was riding around 172-174bpm, also my shorts were dropping a bit, cos i had two gels in the pockets and i had to use the bathroom....but i think the tiredness was one of the biggest factors. so when i stopped, i took a gel, a GU gel, it was horrible and i didnt finish it, had some water and off i went again...setting myself a goal of 5 more miles of PMP.
these next 5m PMP were as hard but got through them ok, i prob didnt have to stop at the end of them but with 3 more to go, i stopped for another gel, a hi-5 iso and some water.
the last 3m PMP were as hard but ok, prob cos it was only 3miles....

so a total of 15m PMP, in a medium style way of running them...avHR is lower than is seams cos of the breaks and the time it takes to ramp up again, so avHR was prob around 174?

big worry i have is everytime i run faster than 7:40m/m my HR shoots up into the late 160s and early 170s! not good come marathon day....ill last around 24m again id say...lol

total weekly mileage: 65m, recovery week next week i think!

smmoore79

seanynova wrote: »

sun 5th, 20m, 2:21:45mins @7:05m/m avHR167, was humid enough though.

2.4m easy w/u @ 8:08m/m(149)
15m PMP @ 6:47m/m(172)
2.6m easy w/d @ 7:50m/m(156)

im going to give myself a pass for this one, a good hard session but not completed with flying colours!
after 7 miles of PMP i had to stop, was feeling it, HR was riding around 172-174bpm, also my shorts were dropping a bit, cos i had two gels in the pockets and i had to use the bathroom....but i think the tiredness was one of the biggest factors. so when i stopped, i took a gel, a GU gel, it was horrible and i didnt finish it, had some water and off i went again...setting myself a goal of 5 more miles of PMP.
these next 5m PMP were as hard but got through them ok, i prob didnt have to stop at the end of them but with 3 more to go, i stopped for another gel, a hi-5 iso and some water.
the last 3m PMP were as hard but ok, prob cos it was only 3miles....

so a total of 15m PMP, in a medium style way of running them...avHR is lower than is seams cos of the breaks and the time it takes to ramp up again, so avHR was prob around 174?

big worry i have is everytime i run faster than 7:40m/m my HR shoots up into the late 160s and early 170s! not good come marathon day....ill last around 24m again id say...lol

total weekly mileage: 65m, recovery week next week i think!

Thats a solid enough session. You must be pleased with that. 20 miles and a load at PMP!! Would love to be at that level now but playin a bit of catch-up. Did ya do the run on road or grass?

Speedy44

wow, 15 @ pmp, thats some running. Is that going to be your max? Much more and you'll have a sub 3 in training !!

As I said in my post, I'll just go all easy next Sun, then in 2wks I'll do 22/10pmp, 10k race the following Sunday, then my last long run on Oct. 3rd will be 22/12 pmp

seanynova

smmoore79 wrote: »

Thats a solid enough session. You must be pleased with that. 20 miles and a load at PMP!! Would love to be at that level now but playin a bit of catch-up. Did ya do the run on road or grass?

i do all my training on road/walking path(tarmac)....the only time i used a trail was in canada where i was able to use one for a week odd for some of the miles, it helps, but so far so good on the impact front...although my shoes really need to be replaced!!!!

Speedy44 wrote: »

wow, 15 @ pmp, thats some running. Is that going to be your max? Much more and you'll have a sub 3 in training !!

As I said in my post, I'll just go all easy next Sun, then in 2wks I'll do 22/10pmp, 10k race the following Sunday, then my last long run on Oct. 3rd will be 22/12 pmp

similar to me i guess, but i have a 22-23m LSR, 22m LSR/Tempo and a 19or20m/15m PMP session left to do, but hopefully the last PMP will be completed without stopping!!!! and actually feeling like PMP with a moderate HR level. the BIG thing is the heart rate and perceived effort!