Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast now- next Derry!!!

DJP · 10-10-2010 01:00AM #1

I interviewed Donnacha Mac Niallais from Cultúrlann Uí Chánain the Irish Language Cultural Centre in Derry for Near90fm last month where we in part discussed the plan of An Gaeláras (situated in An Chultúrlann) to turn part of Derry City into a Gaeltacht Quarter like the area around the Falls Road in Belfast is now.

More detail is available on An Chultúrlann's website:

...
"An Gaeláras is now pioneering another phase in the development of the language in Derry by establishing an Irish language quarter, an Cheathrú Ghaeltachta, situated in the Creggan, Bogside and Brandywell districts of the city and stretching from the Cultúrlann in Gt James Street through the Bogside to Gaelscoil Éadain Mhóir in the Brandywell and up to Creggan.

The project will seek to encourage, foster and instill pride among residents in the rich history and culture of the neighbourhood by: * enhancing the physical environment of the area through the erection of Irish language and bi-lingual signage in partnership with community, business and statutory organisations; * developing a unique cultural tourism product in collaboration with Free Derry Tours, Free Derry Museum, TRIAX, Dove House, Bogside & Brandywell Initiative, Gaelscoil Éadain Mhóir, the People’s Gallery, NITB, Derry City Council, and others. * maximising economic opportunities for local residents, businesses and others provided by the cluster of Irish language and cultural groups within the area;

This project will only succeed with the support and active participation of the residents, community organisations and businesses of the Creggan, Bogside and Brandywell areas. Give us your views, thoughts and suggestions on how you can be part of this latest phase in the revival of the Irish language locally."

The Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast covers the Falls Road. With this proposal it is proposed that thousands of houses would be within the Gaeltacht Quarter I think. So they are really trying to turn the area into a Gaeltacht. Should there be a vote held locally to see if the local residents want to live in this new Gaeltacht Quarter? The area has two gaelscoileanna, at least one naioinrá or Irish language pre-school and An Chultúrlann.

So what are your views, thoughts and suggestions on this? I understand that the plan is a long-term plan so it won't happen for another few years but should, I'd say, be no more than several years away.

orourkeda · 10-10-2010 01:06AM

They'll probably understand irish better than us

DJP · 10-10-2010 01:14AM

orourkeda wrote: »

They'll probably understand irish better than us

I wonder would it not be counterproductive to have thousands of people living within a Gaeltacht Quarter where the majority of them do not speak Irish. We already have this with the official Gaeltacht now in the South. The boundaries will be getting redrawn over the next year or two (the first time since the 50's!) and Irish language enthusiasts welcome the fact that generally the areas that don't speak Irish will be taken out of the official Gaeltacht. Surely this is going against the grain so in Derry? Don't get me wrong. I think that it should be the short-term goal of all cities to ideally have Gaeltacht Quarters but they should model the Quarter in Belfast I think until the time when Irish is much stronger in terms of speakers so that we can start increasing the Gaeltacht boundaries again.

I am glad this development is planned though as it lets us all have a debate!!!

orourkeda · 10-10-2010 01:19AM

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I wonder would it not be counterproductive to have thousands of people living within a Gaeltacht Quarter where the majority of them do not speak Irish. We already have this with the official Gaeltacht now in the South. The boundaries will be getting redrawn over the next year or two (the first time since the 50's!) and Irish language enthusiasts welcome the fact that generally the areas that don't speak Irish will be taken out of the official Gaeltacht. Surely this is going against the grain so in Derry? Don't get me wrong. I think that it should be the short-term goal of all cities to ideally have Gaeltacht Quarters but they should model the Quarter in Belfast I think until the time when Irish is much stronger in terms of speakers so that we can start increasing the Gaeltacht boundaries again.

I am glad this development is planned though as it lets us all have a debate!!!

It's cool. Nobody speaks Irish in the republic either but you dont see the gaeltachts down here closing.

We even have TV stations that nobody watches and radio station that nobody listens to in order to promote our dead national language.

AlexderFranke · 10-10-2010 12:55PM

I am a foreigner having visited Ireland several times. Irish is in no way a dead language! On the other hand it is a serious enough loss that Irish is not known by everybody in Ireland any more!

The battle of the traditional Gaeltacht is in no way lost, yet. Of course, some figures from the linguistic study are alarming. On the other hand, you can see that a majority there still have reasonable to perfect Irish, except some outer areas of the Gaeltacht. What is needed is to bring back the Irish known by the people into regular use! To redraw the borders too quickly can turn into a severe mistake!

Yes, every city should have a Gaeltacht quarter! If this is not to be realized, a group of people is needed to use Irish every day as colloquial language. But the most important thing is to keep and even increase the number of native speakers in order to secure a natural developement.

100.000 - 200.000 native speakers who regularly use Irish and a further few hundred thousands who can speak Irish is enough to secure the existance. For if you look at Medieval Latin, you can see that a language can be passed on further for centuries although it is not spoken by a majority.

orourkeda · 10-10-2010 01:38PM

AlexderFranke wrote: »

I am a foreigner having visited Ireland several times. Irish is in no way a dead language! On the other hand it is a serious enough loss that Irish is not known by everybody in Ireland any more!

The battle of the traditional Gaeltacht is in no way lost, yet. Of course, some figures from the linguistic study are alarming. On the other hand, you can see that a majority there still have reasonable to perfect Irish, except some outer areas of the Gaeltacht. What is needed is to bring back the Irish known by the people into regular use! To redraw the borders too quickly can turn into a severe mistake!

Yes, every city should have a Gaeltacht quarter! If this is not to be realized, a group of people is needed to use Irish every day as colloquial language. But the most important thing is to keep and even increase the number of native speakers in order to secure a natural developement.

100.000 - 200.000 native speakers who regularly use Irish and a further few hundred thousands who can speak Irish is enough to secure the existance. For if you look at Medieval Latin, you can see that a language can be passed on further for centuries although it is not spoken by a majority.

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead. Its not completely but's in a coma and on life support for as long as I can remember.

I'll be stunned if these figures you quote arent inflated or doctored in anyway.

dlofnep · 10-10-2010 01:46PM

I was in Cultúrlann in Belfast, have yet to be to the new centre in Derry - but I've a few friends from Derry involved in the Irish language, and they said it has really helped the language and has provided them with a central point for the language.

Irish is a living language for many of these people - I was browsing for some books in the Belfast Cultúrlann library, and two little girls who could have only been 6 or 7 were chatting away as gaeilge. It was heart-warming to see.

dlofnep · 10-10-2010 01:51PM

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead. Its not completely but's in a coma and on life support for as long as I can remember.

It's either dead, or it isn't. It has over 100,000 competent speakers, and that surely qualifies it as a living language. A dead language is a language which has no native speakers. All this nonsense about "life support" is absurd. All languages require state support at some level. I use the language on a daily basis, as do many of my friends.

orourkeda · 10-10-2010 01:57PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It's either dead, or it isn't. It has over 100,000 competent speakers, and that surely qualifies it as a living language. A dead language is a language which has no native speakers. All this nonsense about "life support" is absurd. All languages require state support at some level. I use the language on a daily basis, as do many of my friends.

From 4 million.

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

bnt · 10-10-2010 01:59PM

I have the impression that the Irish Language has been a victim of Irish Politics, having been over-emphasised and pushed in to areas where it was not wanted or needed. I mean: when I read the OP's post, my first response is that the language is being pushed in Stroke City for political reasons, and am a little concerned that it's only going to result in more segregation between the communities. Is that the only way the Irish language can survive - by creating more Ghettos Gaeltachta where they would not form naturally?

AlexderFranke · 10-10-2010 02:00PM

Oh, you have misunderstood me. The figures stated above are realistic ones to aim at. Of course, there is work to be done to secure the future.
At the moment we have about
100.000 native speakers on the whole island plus around 300.000 - 400.000 other more or less fluent speakers.
Especially the number of native speakers regularly using their native language is a weak point. This I can aslo state from own experiences.
Networks and meetings of speakers exist, but are concentrated in the major cities and certain periods. This iis another weak point.

Gan dabht, is suí deacair atá an Ghaeilge anois. Ach mar sin féin, is féidir an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn agus níl sí marbh freisin.

Alex

dlofnep · 10-10-2010 02:03PM

orourkeda wrote: »

From 4 million.

So what? You made the claim that it was a dead language. It's quite clear that it isn't.

orourkeda wrote: »

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

Then majority of the public have a positive view of the language. Not everyone subscribes to your linguistic views.

dlofnep · 10-10-2010 02:06PM

bnt wrote: »

Is that the only way the Irish language can survive - by creating more Ghettos Gaeltachta where they would not form naturally?

The purpose of language centres is to provide a focal point for the language, to bring people together and to give people a chance to use the language or to learn it. The are very important, especially in the north where the language receives minimal funding. The language centres receive alot of visitors, so it's clear that there is a demand for their services.

DJP · 10-10-2010 02:07PM

I am very hopeful for the future of the Irish language for these reasons and there are also some other signs to be hopeful.

1) Irish is now an official language of the EU.
2) We now have Raidió Fáilte broadcasting throughout the day in Irish in Belfast and we have Raidió na Life in Dublin.
3) TG4.
4) The continued loyalty of Gaeltacht people to Raidió na Gaeltachta. They naturally view the station as being their local radio station.
5) The opening of Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiaich in Belfast and last year Cultúlann Uí Chánáin in Derry.
6) In a majority of the South a signficiant, in several counties a large, number of new residential developments were named in Irish during the property boom. Councillors in Dublin City, South Dublin County Council and Navan have also voted to name all their new residential developments in Irish in their new Development Plans. The policies already exist in Galway City and Shannon.
7) From this year 40% of the Leaving Certificate Irish exam is going on oral Irish.
8) Na gaelscoileanna.
9) Of course the recommendations so far from the Oireachtas Joint-Committee on the 20 Year Strategy for the Irish Language. The best 12 recommendations that stick out to me are:

"5.
Assign the following functions to the restructured Údarás na Gaeltachta / na Gaeilge (Section 4.3):-
A primary role in planning and housing matters within the Gaeltacht;
Regularly review the effectiveness of the available housing grants within the Gaeltacht;
Gather information on effective new enterprises by co-operative societies in order to identify and disseminate best practice with a special emphasis on enterprises that encourage community participation and activity;
Design work experience programmes both inside and outside the Gaeltacht that are directed at university students and especially at students who have graduated in Irish.

7.
Restructure An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta as a statutory body with defined powers in relation to representing the views and suggestions of stakeholders in the Irish language in regard to the formulation of education policies for the Gaeltacht and the Irish language Communities (Section 5.1).

9.
The Department of Education and Skills ensures the adequate availability of Irish language schools to all communities in Ireland when it is deciding on the establishment and location of new schools (Section 5.3.1).

10.
Develop a new syllabus for Irish from junior infants to the Leaving Certificate that will take account of the different developmental language requirements for native speakers, students who are being educated through the medium of the Irish language and other proficient Irish language students (Section 5.3.2).

12.
Provide a new school subject entitled ‘Irish Arts and Literature’ (Section 4.3.4).

19.
Confirm the building of a National Education centre in Baile Bhuirne (Section 5.5).

23.
Commit the Strategy to providing a Family Support Centre in every large Gaeltacht community (Section 6.3).

26.
Locate a City and Regional Social Centre in Dublin City, which will provide Arts, Cafeteria and other relevant facilities that will facilitate the functioning of a social network for the youth of Dublin and the surrounding counties (Section 6.4).

29.
Encourage the establishment of a social network for young people throughout the Gaeltacht that operates through the medium of Irish (Section 6.7).

30.
Include the provision of regular language information campaigns as a part of the Strategy (Section 6.8).

31.
Oversee, as a priority, the establishment of a social network for young people that will operate through the medium of Irish (Section 7.2).

33.
Local Authorities must ensure that all road signs and street name signs are bi-lingual and that in respect of the Irish and English text, the Irish text is at least as conspicuous, as visible and as readable as the English text (Section 7.4)."

Predator_ · 10-10-2010 02:13PM

dlofnep its pointless debating with people who hate the subject. Like it pointsless debating with some people about the good and bad points of a particular style of music, they just hate it, nothing is going to change! The real debate is why they hate it, which is because they are anti-Irish. It like debating with Nazi's the positive aspects of the Jewish faith. God knows what they are doing on a Irish forum.

Iwasfrozen · 10-10-2010 02:18PM

Predator_ wrote: »

dlofnep its pointless debating with people who hate the subject. Like it pointsless debating with some people about the good and bad points of a particular style of music, they just hate it, nothing is going to change! The real debate is why they hate it, which is because they are anti-Irish. It like debating with Nazi's the positive aspects of the Jewish faith. God knows what they are doing on a Irish forum.

lol, Quite a large leap in logic there nostradamus.

DJP · 10-10-2010 02:19PM

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

galwayrush · 10-10-2010 02:39PM

Cute hoors, now they will apply to our Government for some Gaeltacht grants.........:rolleyes:

Predator_ · 10-10-2010 03:03PM

Im aware that some people hate the language because of the way it was taught to them in school, these people lack the intelligence to seperate a language from the education system. They should direct their hate towards the Government who continue to teach it in such a way that results in such poor levels of fluency. I presonally think our Goverment hates the langauge, along with everything else Irish, therefor do not change the way it is taught.

Cavehill Red · 10-10-2010 03:30PM

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

You win this thread's Godwin award.

Wibbs · 10-10-2010 03:57PM

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

Sweet zombie Jesus on a push bike. Are you even close to an approximation of serious with that statement? :eek:

Predator_ wrote: »

I presonally think our Goverment hates the langauge, along with everything else Irish, therefor do not change the way it is taught.

I would say same of your statement. Yea right the government hates the language. Ballsology of the highest order. Who gives over the massive yearly budget(which we can ill afford currently) aimed at the promotion of this language? Who sets aside budgets for translation of official documents into the language, especially EU ones, which will never be read save by the translators? Who has enshrined in legislation that doing second level exams through Irish garners extra points, or making it compulsory for various careers? Who does all this and has done throughout the history of this state? Smurfs?

I'd also have serious misgivings about the figures quoted of Irish speakers. Actually fluent speakers? Way less than 100,000. The figures I've read put fluent Irish speakers at closer to 20 - 30,000. There are more who speak a little or pidgin Irish. The census returns are a very bad judge of the figure as people who feel they should be speaking it, or feel guilty for not will tick the "Yes" box.

mike65 · 10-10-2010 04:01PM

How much public funding by non Irish speaking people is required to create this Nirvana of Extra-Irishness?

astrofool · 10-10-2010 05:01PM

I don't hate Irish, I do hate all the ridiculous state mandated compulsion for it.

I hate even more the amount of money wasted in making it a compulsion, and the state supported industry that exists because of that.

Rebelheart · 10-10-2010 06:19PM

astrofool wrote: »

I don't hate Irish, I do hate all the ridiculous state mandated compulsion for it.

The same "state-mandated compulsion" which compels people to learn Shakespeare, Austen, Keats and all the rest? Or is state-financing and mandating of that sort of compulsion acceptable?

I'm tired of this state spending a fortune producing documents in the English language that very, very few people bother to read. What a waste of my tax.

Rebelheart · 10-10-2010 06:26PM

mike65 wrote: »

How much public funding by non Irish speaking people is required to create this Nirvana of Extra-Irishness?

Perhaps you ought not to judge others by your own evidently partisan tendencies. The vast majority of English speakers in Ireland clearly support public money being used to promote Irish. If they did not, the situation would have changed long ago. There is nothing contradictory about Irish people, who are reduced to being English monoglots in this generation, strongly supporting the Irish language.

That it patently doesn't fit into your perception of 'rational' thought does not negate its inherent (if complex) rationality.

Krusader · 10-10-2010 06:33PM

When are we going to get our Gaeltacht Quarter in Dublin?

Mr Benevolent · 10-10-2010 06:38PM

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Krusader · 10-10-2010 06:41PM

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

No its not and you know its not, stop trolling

Predator_ · 10-10-2010 06:43PM

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Oh the irony:D

dlofnep · 10-10-2010 06:50PM

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Ladies and gentleman, the product of our wonderful educational institutions. ^

The Irish language is not foreign to Derry City or Belfast.

kumate_champ07 · 10-10-2010 07:14PM

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

you're joking right?

Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast now- next Derry!!!

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