Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast now- next Derry!!!

DJP

I interviewed Donnacha Mac Niallais from Cultúrlann Uí Chánain the Irish Language Cultural Centre in Derry for Near90fm last month where we in part discussed the plan of An Gaeláras (situated in An Chultúrlann) to turn part of Derry City into a Gaeltacht Quarter like the area around the Falls Road in Belfast is now.

More detail is available on An Chultúrlann's website:

...
"An Gaeláras is now pioneering another phase in the development of the language in Derry by establishing an Irish language quarter, an Cheathrú Ghaeltachta, situated in the Creggan, Bogside and Brandywell districts of the city and stretching from the Cultúrlann in Gt James Street through the Bogside to Gaelscoil Éadain Mhóir in the Brandywell and up to Creggan.

The project will seek to encourage, foster and instill pride among residents in the rich history and culture of the neighbourhood by: * enhancing the physical environment of the area through the erection of Irish language and bi-lingual signage in partnership with community, business and statutory organisations; * developing a unique cultural tourism product in collaboration with Free Derry Tours, Free Derry Museum, TRIAX, Dove House, Bogside & Brandywell Initiative, Gaelscoil Éadain Mhóir, the People’s Gallery, NITB, Derry City Council, and others. * maximising economic opportunities for local residents, businesses and others provided by the cluster of Irish language and cultural groups within the area;

This project will only succeed with the support and active participation of the residents, community organisations and businesses of the Creggan, Bogside and Brandywell areas. Give us your views, thoughts and suggestions on how you can be part of this latest phase in the revival of the Irish language locally."

The Gaeltacht Quarter in Belfast covers the Falls Road. With this proposal it is proposed that thousands of houses would be within the Gaeltacht Quarter I think. So they are really trying to turn the area into a Gaeltacht. Should there be a vote held locally to see if the local residents want to live in this new Gaeltacht Quarter? The area has two gaelscoileanna, at least one naioinrá or Irish language pre-school and An Chultúrlann.

So what are your views, thoughts and suggestions on this? I understand that the plan is a long-term plan so it won't happen for another few years but should, I'd say, be no more than several years away.

orourkeda

They'll probably understand irish better than us

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

They'll probably understand irish better than us

I wonder would it not be counterproductive to have thousands of people living within a Gaeltacht Quarter where the majority of them do not speak Irish. We already have this with the official Gaeltacht now in the South. The boundaries will be getting redrawn over the next year or two (the first time since the 50's!) and Irish language enthusiasts welcome the fact that generally the areas that don't speak Irish will be taken out of the official Gaeltacht. Surely this is going against the grain so in Derry? Don't get me wrong. I think that it should be the short-term goal of all cities to ideally have Gaeltacht Quarters but they should model the Quarter in Belfast I think until the time when Irish is much stronger in terms of speakers so that we can start increasing the Gaeltacht boundaries again.

I am glad this development is planned though as it lets us all have a debate!!!

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I wonder would it not be counterproductive to have thousands of people living within a Gaeltacht Quarter where the majority of them do not speak Irish. We already have this with the official Gaeltacht now in the South. The boundaries will be getting redrawn over the next year or two (the first time since the 50's!) and Irish language enthusiasts welcome the fact that generally the areas that don't speak Irish will be taken out of the official Gaeltacht. Surely this is going against the grain so in Derry? Don't get me wrong. I think that it should be the short-term goal of all cities to ideally have Gaeltacht Quarters but they should model the Quarter in Belfast I think until the time when Irish is much stronger in terms of speakers so that we can start increasing the Gaeltacht boundaries again.

I am glad this development is planned though as it lets us all have a debate!!!

It's cool. Nobody speaks Irish in the republic either but you dont see the gaeltachts down here closing.

We even have TV stations that nobody watches and radio station that nobody listens to in order to promote our dead national language.

AlexderFranke

I am a foreigner having visited Ireland several times. Irish is in no way a dead language! On the other hand it is a serious enough loss that Irish is not known by everybody in Ireland any more!

The battle of the traditional Gaeltacht is in no way lost, yet. Of course, some figures from the linguistic study are alarming. On the other hand, you can see that a majority there still have reasonable to perfect Irish, except some outer areas of the Gaeltacht. What is needed is to bring back the Irish known by the people into regular use! To redraw the borders too quickly can turn into a severe mistake!

Yes, every city should have a Gaeltacht quarter! If this is not to be realized, a group of people is needed to use Irish every day as colloquial language. But the most important thing is to keep and even increase the number of native speakers in order to secure a natural developement.

100.000 - 200.000 native speakers who regularly use Irish and a further few hundred thousands who can speak Irish is enough to secure the existance. For if you look at Medieval Latin, you can see that a language can be passed on further for centuries although it is not spoken by a majority.

orourkeda

AlexderFranke wrote: »

I am a foreigner having visited Ireland several times. Irish is in no way a dead language! On the other hand it is a serious enough loss that Irish is not known by everybody in Ireland any more!

The battle of the traditional Gaeltacht is in no way lost, yet. Of course, some figures from the linguistic study are alarming. On the other hand, you can see that a majority there still have reasonable to perfect Irish, except some outer areas of the Gaeltacht. What is needed is to bring back the Irish known by the people into regular use! To redraw the borders too quickly can turn into a severe mistake!

Yes, every city should have a Gaeltacht quarter! If this is not to be realized, a group of people is needed to use Irish every day as colloquial language. But the most important thing is to keep and even increase the number of native speakers in order to secure a natural developement.

100.000 - 200.000 native speakers who regularly use Irish and a further few hundred thousands who can speak Irish is enough to secure the existance. For if you look at Medieval Latin, you can see that a language can be passed on further for centuries although it is not spoken by a majority.

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead. Its not completely but's in a coma and on life support for as long as I can remember.

I'll be stunned if these figures you quote arent inflated or doctored in anyway.

dlofnep

I was in Cultúrlann in Belfast, have yet to be to the new centre in Derry - but I've a few friends from Derry involved in the Irish language, and they said it has really helped the language and has provided them with a central point for the language.

Irish is a living language for many of these people - I was browsing for some books in the Belfast Cultúrlann library, and two little girls who could have only been 6 or 7 were chatting away as gaeilge. It was heart-warming to see.

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead. Its not completely but's in a coma and on life support for as long as I can remember.

It's either dead, or it isn't. It has over 100,000 competent speakers, and that surely qualifies it as a living language. A dead language is a language which has no native speakers. All this nonsense about "life support" is absurd. All languages require state support at some level. I use the language on a daily basis, as do many of my friends.

orourkeda

dlofnep wrote: »

It's either dead, or it isn't. It has over 100,000 competent speakers, and that surely qualifies it as a living language. A dead language is a language which has no native speakers. All this nonsense about "life support" is absurd. All languages require state support at some level. I use the language on a daily basis, as do many of my friends.

From 4 million.

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

bnt

I have the impression that the Irish Language has been a victim of Irish Politics, having been over-emphasised and pushed in to areas where it was not wanted or needed. I mean: when I read the OP's post, my first response is that the language is being pushed in Stroke City for political reasons, and am a little concerned that it's only going to result in more segregation between the communities. Is that the only way the Irish language can survive - by creating more Ghettos Gaeltachta where they would not form naturally?

AlexderFranke

Oh, you have misunderstood me. The figures stated above are realistic ones to aim at. Of course, there is work to be done to secure the future.
At the moment we have about
100.000 native speakers on the whole island plus around 300.000 - 400.000 other more or less fluent speakers.
Especially the number of native speakers regularly using their native language is a weak point. This I can aslo state from own experiences.
Networks and meetings of speakers exist, but are concentrated in the major cities and certain periods. This iis another weak point.

Gan dabht, is suí deacair atá an Ghaeilge anois. Ach mar sin féin, is féidir an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn agus níl sí marbh freisin.

Alex

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

From 4 million.

So what? You made the claim that it was a dead language. It's quite clear that it isn't.

orourkeda wrote: »

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

Then majority of the public have a positive view of the language. Not everyone subscribes to your linguistic views.

dlofnep

bnt wrote: »

Is that the only way the Irish language can survive - by creating more Ghettos Gaeltachta where they would not form naturally?

The purpose of language centres is to provide a focal point for the language, to bring people together and to give people a chance to use the language or to learn it. The are very important, especially in the north where the language receives minimal funding. The language centres receive alot of visitors, so it's clear that there is a demand for their services.

DJP

I am very hopeful for the future of the Irish language for these reasons and there are also some other signs to be hopeful.

1) Irish is now an official language of the EU.
2) We now have Raidió Fáilte broadcasting throughout the day in Irish in Belfast and we have Raidió na Life in Dublin.
3) TG4.
4) The continued loyalty of Gaeltacht people to Raidió na Gaeltachta. They naturally view the station as being their local radio station.
5) The opening of Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiaich in Belfast and last year Cultúlann Uí Chánáin in Derry.
6) In a majority of the South a signficiant, in several counties a large, number of new residential developments were named in Irish during the property boom. Councillors in Dublin City, South Dublin County Council and Navan have also voted to name all their new residential developments in Irish in their new Development Plans. The policies already exist in Galway City and Shannon.
7) From this year 40% of the Leaving Certificate Irish exam is going on oral Irish.
8) Na gaelscoileanna.
9) Of course the recommendations so far from the Oireachtas Joint-Committee on the 20 Year Strategy for the Irish Language. The best 12 recommendations that stick out to me are:

"5.
Assign the following functions to the restructured Údarás na Gaeltachta / na Gaeilge (Section 4.3):-
A primary role in planning and housing matters within the Gaeltacht;
Regularly review the effectiveness of the available housing grants within the Gaeltacht;
Gather information on effective new enterprises by co-operative societies in order to identify and disseminate best practice with a special emphasis on enterprises that encourage community participation and activity;
Design work experience programmes both inside and outside the Gaeltacht that are directed at university students and especially at students who have graduated in Irish.

7.
Restructure An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta as a statutory body with defined powers in relation to representing the views and suggestions of stakeholders in the Irish language in regard to the formulation of education policies for the Gaeltacht and the Irish language Communities (Section 5.1).

9.
The Department of Education and Skills ensures the adequate availability of Irish language schools to all communities in Ireland when it is deciding on the establishment and location of new schools (Section 5.3.1).

10.
Develop a new syllabus for Irish from junior infants to the Leaving Certificate that will take account of the different developmental language requirements for native speakers, students who are being educated through the medium of the Irish language and other proficient Irish language students (Section 5.3.2).

12.
Provide a new school subject entitled ‘Irish Arts and Literature’ (Section 4.3.4).

19.
Confirm the building of a National Education centre in Baile Bhuirne (Section 5.5).

23.
Commit the Strategy to providing a Family Support Centre in every large Gaeltacht community (Section 6.3).

26.
Locate a City and Regional Social Centre in Dublin City, which will provide Arts, Cafeteria and other relevant facilities that will facilitate the functioning of a social network for the youth of Dublin and the surrounding counties (Section 6.4).

29.
Encourage the establishment of a social network for young people throughout the Gaeltacht that operates through the medium of Irish (Section 6.7).

30.
Include the provision of regular language information campaigns as a part of the Strategy (Section 6.8).

31.
Oversee, as a priority, the establishment of a social network for young people that will operate through the medium of Irish (Section 7.2).

33.
Local Authorities must ensure that all road signs and street name signs are bi-lingual and that in respect of the Irish and English text, the Irish text is at least as conspicuous, as visible and as readable as the English text (Section 7.4)."

Predator_

dlofnep its pointless debating with people who hate the subject. Like it pointsless debating with some people about the good and bad points of a particular style of music, they just hate it, nothing is going to change! The real debate is why they hate it, which is because they are anti-Irish. It like debating with Nazi's the positive aspects of the Jewish faith. God knows what they are doing on a Irish forum.

Iwasfrozen

Predator_ wrote: »

dlofnep its pointless debating with people who hate the subject. Like it pointsless debating with some people about the good and bad points of a particular style of music, they just hate it, nothing is going to change! The real debate is why they hate it, which is because they are anti-Irish. It like debating with Nazi's the positive aspects of the Jewish faith. God knows what they are doing on a Irish forum.

lol, Quite a large leap in logic there nostradamus.

DJP

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

galwayrush

Cute hoors, now they will apply to our Government for some Gaeltacht grants.........:rolleyes:

Predator_

Im aware that some people hate the language because of the way it was taught to them in school, these people lack the intelligence to seperate a language from the education system. They should direct their hate towards the Government who continue to teach it in such a way that results in such poor levels of fluency. I presonally think our Goverment hates the langauge, along with everything else Irish, therefor do not change the way it is taught.

Cavehill Red

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

You win this thread's Godwin award.

Wibbs

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Not really. The hatred of people of the Irish language is a microcosm of the hatred Nazi's have of the Jewish people.

Sweet zombie Jesus on a push bike. Are you even close to an approximation of serious with that statement? :eek:

Predator_ wrote: »

I presonally think our Goverment hates the langauge, along with everything else Irish, therefor do not change the way it is taught.

I would say same of your statement. Yea right the government hates the language. Ballsology of the highest order. Who gives over the massive yearly budget(which we can ill afford currently) aimed at the promotion of this language? Who sets aside budgets for translation of official documents into the language, especially EU ones, which will never be read save by the translators? Who has enshrined in legislation that doing second level exams through Irish garners extra points, or making it compulsory for various careers? Who does all this and has done throughout the history of this state? Smurfs?

I'd also have serious misgivings about the figures quoted of Irish speakers. Actually fluent speakers? Way less than 100,000. The figures I've read put fluent Irish speakers at closer to 20 - 30,000. There are more who speak a little or pidgin Irish. The census returns are a very bad judge of the figure as people who feel they should be speaking it, or feel guilty for not will tick the "Yes" box.

mike65

How much public funding by non Irish speaking people is required to create this Nirvana of Extra-Irishness?

astrofool

I don't hate Irish, I do hate all the ridiculous state mandated compulsion for it.

I hate even more the amount of money wasted in making it a compulsion, and the state supported industry that exists because of that.

Rebelheart

astrofool wrote: »

I don't hate Irish, I do hate all the ridiculous state mandated compulsion for it.

The same "state-mandated compulsion" which compels people to learn Shakespeare, Austen, Keats and all the rest? Or is state-financing and mandating of that sort of compulsion acceptable?

I'm tired of this state spending a fortune producing documents in the English language that very, very few people bother to read. What a waste of my tax.

Rebelheart

mike65 wrote: »

How much public funding by non Irish speaking people is required to create this Nirvana of Extra-Irishness?

Perhaps you ought not to judge others by your own evidently partisan tendencies. The vast majority of English speakers in Ireland clearly support public money being used to promote Irish. If they did not, the situation would have changed long ago. There is nothing contradictory about Irish people, who are reduced to being English monoglots in this generation, strongly supporting the Irish language.

That it patently doesn't fit into your perception of 'rational' thought does not negate its inherent (if complex) rationality.

Krusader

When are we going to get our Gaeltacht Quarter in Dublin?

Mr Benevolent

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Krusader

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

No its not and you know its not, stop trolling

Predator_

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Oh the irony:D

dlofnep

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

Ladies and gentleman, the product of our wonderful educational institutions. ^

The Irish language is not foreign to Derry City or Belfast.

kumate_champ07

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

you're joking right?

orourkeda

dlofnep wrote: »

So what? You made the claim that it was a dead language. It's quite clear that it isn't.

Then majority of the public have a positive view of the language. Not everyone subscribes to your linguistic views.

If the majority of the public have a positive view of the irish language, why do only 3% of them speak it (best case scenario on the basis of the figures provided in this thread)

Secondly, if this thread was in irish how many people would be able to understand it?

orourkeda

Predator_ wrote: »

Im aware that some people hate the language because of the way it was taught to them in school, these people lack the intelligence to seperate a language from the education system. They should direct their hate towards the Government who continue to teach it in such a way that results in such poor levels of fluency. I presonally think our Goverment hates the langauge, along with everything else Irish, therefor do not change the way it is taught.

Blaming the government for the lack of command and knowledge of the irish language is patently absurd.

If this is the case how come everyone in Ireland speaks English with no difficulty?

The simple fact of the matter is that Irish is not used by the vast majority of the irish population and English. Irish will never be spoken on a widespread basis because it has grown completely irrelevant to the irish people.

AlexderFranke

Well, the figures of around 100.000 native speakers and 400.000 -
500.000 all over the island is absolutely realistic. One survey contains different levels of ability. 2% stated native speaker ability and 9% to be able to follow most conversations. And this only includes the Republic. You have to add the figures of Northern Ireland. The
20.000 - 30.000 are Gaeltacht native speakers whose everyday language is still Irish. There is no doubt that there are more native speakers around on the island, either people with Gaeltacht origin or others whose parents spoke Irish to them.

Freastalaíonn na figiúrí mar atá
100.000 cainteoir dúchais agus
400.000 - 500.000 cainteoir líofa go maith leis an bhfírinne. Deineadh suirbhé le cumais éagsúla ar an nGaeilge san áireamh. Dúirt 2% go bhfuil cumas ar nós caineoirí dúchais acu agus 9% eile go bhfuil siad in ann an chuid is mó na gcomhráite a leanúint. Agus caitear figiúrí an Tuiscirt a chur san áireamh.
Is í uimhir an 20.000 - 30.000 na cainteoirí dúchais leis an nGaeilge mar phríomhtheanga an tsaoil latthúil sa Ghaeltacht amháin. Is cinnte go bhfuil níos mó cainteoirí dúchais ar fud an oileáin timpeall, daoine le fréamh sa Ghaeltacht nó daoine eile ar labhair a dtuismitheoirí Gaeilge leo.

An Ghaeilge go brách!

Alex

orourkeda

AlexderFranke wrote: »

Well, the figures of around 100.000 native speakers and 400.000 -
500.000 all over the island is absolutely realistic. One survey contains different levels of ability. 2% stated native speaker ability and 9% to be able to follow most conversations. And this only includes the Republic. You have to add the figures of Northern Ireland. The
20.000 - 30.000 are Gaeltacht native speakers whose everyday language is still Irish. There is no doubt that there are more native speakers around on the island, either people with Gaeltacht origin or others whose parents spoke Irish to them.

Freastalaíonn na figiúrí mar atá
100.000 cainteoir dúchais agus
400.000 - 500.000 cainteoir líofa go maith leis an bhfírinne. Deineadh suirbhé le cumais éagsúla ar an nGaeilge san áireamh. Dúirt 2% go bhfuil cumas ar nós caineoirí dúchais acu agus 9% eile go bhfuil siad in ann an chuid is mó na gcomhráite a leanúint. Agus caitear figiúrí an Tuiscirt a chur san áireamh.
Is í uimhir an 20.000 - 30.000 na cainteoirí dúchais leis an nGaeilge mar phríomhtheanga an tsaoil latthúil sa Ghaeltacht amháin. Is cinnte go bhfuil níos mó cainteoirí dúchais ar fud an oileáin timpeall, daoine le fréamh sa Ghaeltacht nó daoine eile ar labhair a dtuismitheoirí Gaeilge leo.

An Ghaeilge go brách!

Alex

Where are you getting your figures as a matter of interest.

I simply refuse to believe that there are as many as 20% of irish people (give or take) that are competent in irish.

At the risk if seeming cynical, I would take government figures with a grain of salt due to the possibility of them having to justify their position of having to maintain irish as an official language. I'm open to correction here.

stovelid

Confab wrote: »

Isn't it unbelievably arrogant to claim a foreign language quarter in a country that has had massive conflicts over the country that produced that language? Jesus H, I can hardlybelieve anyone would be insane enough to deliberately provoke the people of NI UK by doing this. It's the equivalent of claiming a Yiddish Quarter in Gaza City or a German Quarter in Auschwitz.

I don't believe this but what I do think is that is sad and inevitable that something as undeniably worthwhile as this is largely motivated by an entrenching of positions and will copper-fasten division. Just like an equivalent quarter would on the "other side".

Not that I oppose either - just that it's a sad fact of NI that the locus of cultural expression will continue to be defined as that which most pisses off (both) themuns.

Krusader

Not necessarily, anyway has a vast majority of Nationalist than loyalist in the city.
Why are people so negative when other people want to express themselves in the Irish language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QeR1yrX3u0

orourkeda

Crosáidí wrote: »

Not necessarily, anyway has a vast majority of Nationalist than loyalist in the city.
Why are people so negative when other people want to express themselves in the Irish language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QeR1yrX3u0

This isnt about negativity. It's about practicality.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

This isnt about negativity. It's about practicality.

Really??? What age are you? 16, or are do you still have some growing up to do before you reach that great age?

orourkeda wrote: »

We even have TV stations that nobody watches and radio station that nobody listens to in order to promote our dead national language.

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead.

orourkeda wrote: »

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

DJP

I am going to get onto some people about having a coordinated campaign in three or four years time for all Irish cities and perhaps some major towns to have Gaeltacht Quarters. When councillors are making their next five year Development Plans will be the time to do it.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Really??? What age are you? 16, or are do you still have some growing up to do before you reach that great age?

Is this the level you need to stoop to?

Come on I was expecting something better than that as a retort.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

I am going to get onto some people about having a coordinated campaign in three or four years time for all Irish cities and perhaps some major towns to have Gaeltacht Quarters. When councillors are making their next five year Development Plans will be the time to do it.

Do we face more pressing issues as a nation than gaeltacht quarters in our towns and cities?

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

If the majority of the public have a positive view of the irish language, why do only 3% of them speak it (best case scenario on the basis of the figures provided in this thread)

Because only a small portion of the population have the ability to converse freely, without problems. That is a direct result of a poor curriculum, where absolutely no focus or time is spent on "spoken Irish". Your point is a complete red herring, and doesn't address what I actually said - which was the attitudes of the people towards the language. It's evident that the people as a whole support the language, and wouldn't like to see it go.

orourkeda wrote: »

Secondly, if this thread was in irish how many people would be able to understand it?

Once again, a red herring and has nothing to do with the statement I made.

dlofnep

orourkeda wrote: »

Do we face more pressing issues as a nation than gaeltacht quarters in our towns and cities?

Logic fail.

There will always be a more pressing issue than something. It doesn't mean that it doesn't warrant attention. One might say that providing funds to hospitals is a much more pressing issue than saving the environment, but both warrant attention. Your logic is abysmal.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

Is this the level you need to stoop to?

Come on I was expecting something better than that as a retort.

You should not comment on the level other people allegedly "stoop to" given your immaturity demonstrated on this thread. Your posts have given me no belief that you are anything than a disgruntled teenager or a psychologically under developed and immature adult.

orourkeda

dlofnep wrote: »

Logic fail.

There will always be a more pressing issue than something. It doesn't mean that it doesn't warrant attention. One might say that providing funds to hospitals is a much more pressing issue than saving the environment, but both warrant attention. Your logic is abysmal.

In the grand scheme of things the irish language is way down the pecking order of priorities. To mention healthcare and the irish language in the same thread is a patent absurdity. If healthcare isnt a pressing matter then I dont know what is. I just hope that you dont think the irish language is as important an issue as this. This is my logic. If you think thats a "logic fail" as you call it, what can I say.

Choosing to match up healthcare v environmental issues as a means to demonstrate the irish languages place doesnt really stand up. It's place in the pecking order will vary from person to person but as I see it the irish language isnt a pressing issue at this current time.

orourkeda

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

You should not comment on the level other people allegedly "stoop to" given your immaturity demonstrated on this thread. Your posts have given me no belief that you are anything than a disgruntled teenager or a psychologically under developed and immature adult.

Do explain. Does the fact that I believe the irish language is useless render me a "disgruntled teenager" or intellectually challenged in some way. I didnt resort to commenting on your mental wellbeing in making any post so I'd ask that you stick to the issue.

gurramok

orourkeda wrote: »

The simple fact of the matter is that Irish is not used by the vast majority of the irish population and English. Irish will never be spoken on a widespread basis because it has grown completely irrelevant to the irish people.

Its relevant to me even though I can hardly speak it. Wish it was taught properly to my class and look how we ended up without knowing how to converse in it.

A plus is my nephews, they go to an Irish school and know the language quite well. Wish i had that opportunity when I was their age.

orourkeda

gurramok wrote: »

Its relevant to me even though I can hardly speak it. Wish it was taught properly to my class and look how we ended up without knowing how to converse in it.

A plus is my nephews, they go to an Irish school and know the language quite well. Wish i had that opportunity when I was their age.

How can a language be relevant to you if you can barely speak it. That makes little or no sense to me.

DJP

orourkeda wrote: »

Do explain. Does the fact that I believe the irish language is useless render me a "disgruntled teenager"

No.

orourkeda wrote: »

or intellectually challenged in some way.

No, but these posts do.

orourkeda wrote: »

We even have TV stations that nobody watches and radio station that nobody listens to in order to promote our dead national language.

orourkeda wrote: »

Irish is dead. Trust me. It's dead.

orourkeda wrote: »

If irish wasnt rammed up our arses in school we could finally bury it and have its funeral

Wibbs

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

You should not comment on the level other people allegedly "stoop to" given your immaturity demonstrated on this thread. Your posts have given me no belief that you are anything than a disgruntled teenager or a psychologically under developed and immature adult.

Lets face facts, neither of you are exactly covering yourself in glory, mature or otherwise. Though I have to say orourkeda is well ahead on objective observation of the reality on the ground.

dlofnep wrote:

Because only a small portion of the population have the ability to converse freely, without problems. That is a direct result of a poor curriculum, where absolutely no focus or time is spent on "spoken Irish". Your point is a complete red herring, and doesn't address what I actually said - which was the attitudes of the people towards the language. It's evident that the people as a whole support the language, and wouldn't like to see it go.

Yet the same people have made such an impression on the language that it needs almost constant support outside a very narrow group? That says a lot. I simply don't buy it. It's lip service and that same lip service will kill the impact of the Irish schools of this generation, just like it killed it previously. If the great mass of Irish people who when polled said "Yay go(amach ) Gaelige!" actually meant it, then we wouldnt be having this convo. I know a few parents who sent their kids to Irish schools. For all sorts of reasons. some well dubious. The "less darkies" option was such. Mostly it was because of better teacher to student ratios and a little bit of south dublin cache at polite dinner parties. A laudable few were for the language. Even so, while the kids spke Irish in school, by the time they got home, Bearla was the lingua franca de jour.

This goes for those who do claim to speak it. Just watched some programme in TG4 and the Irish speakers were dropping in english words all over the place. One struck me as ironic. The word "guilt". I'm sure that word exists and is well described in the language as it is a common word, yet it seems such a common word that it escapes some of the so called "fluent"?

TG4 is a good example of the health of the language. You often see the same faces trotted out for various shows. Why, because they have some level of fluency. I recall waaaaay back in the day, being part of the school kid audience for SBB in a hi(sp) with Sean Ban breathnach(SP!). Bugger all of us had a clue what was going on and we were in dire fear of being singled out on camera. We shouldnt have been. 5 kids had been imported who could would pass muster on camera and give the impression that we all were clued in. Chatting to oen of them and he told me he was wheeled out a lot. A 10 year old on retainer for a living language? Smoke and mirrors folks. The prompt cards as Bearla held up by the production assistants at the right moments sealed the surreal atmosphere for me. Fast forward 20 years? It may have improved, it may not. I suspect the latter. Other highlights of TG4 are one to one interviews with some superannuated person or other describing how they raised sheep in 50's Ireland. Riveting stuff I think you'll agree.

Look at the TG4 programme where the committed Irish speaker roamed the land only speaking Irish. He was boned. Almost nobody understood him. Where were the 500,000 "Irish speakers"? He himself saw the issue.