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Winter 2010-2011 outlook

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭TheInquisitor


    Odds on a white Christmas are 4/1 on PP. Might put on a tenner for the laugh


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora



    DEC -- This may be the coldest month of the winter for a change. The blocking, retrograde and easterly index values show a peak in my research around mid-December. This would indicate a month similar to Jan 2010 (but probably not as extreme for temperature, perhaps a bit better for snowfall).

    JAN -- With the early start to blocking and easterly flow, January may produce a mid-month reversal to a much more zonal pattern with stormy and mild weather replacing the chill after possibly a week to ten days of continued cold and sometimes snowy weather. The stormy period could peak with the period 18-25 January.

    Thats exactly the kind of winter I'm hoping for. :)

    * Cold, but not as cold as last winter.
    * More snow!
    * Snow in mid-late December, for the buildup to (and during) Christmas.
    * More cold/snow in the new year with some proper atlantic windstorms mixed in.

    Gah, its perfect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭jambofc


    that's a forecast to drool about M.T. hope your right,well you usually are so 4/1 a white Xmas sounds tempting :)

    eagerly await your update in November.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭delw


    M.T i know you said its your preliminary forcast but sounds good,bit of everyting there for every1 if it happens


    yabba-dabba-doo-.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Certainly quite a chill in the air today. A very cold September day. Wouldnt a Winter whiteout be somethin.:rolleyes:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 270 ✭✭Elmo5


    I have the biggest smile on my face reading that forecast M.T. ! The snow in 81/82 was sooooooooooooo good :D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    This is my preliminary winter forecast ... I will issue a final forecast around mid-November.

    Expect the rest of the autumn to become rather mild before this pattern sets up in late November.

    DEC -- This may be the coldest month of the winter for a change. The blocking, retrograde and easterly index values show a peak in my research around mid-December. This would indicate a month similar to Jan 2010 (but probably not as extreme for temperature, perhaps a bit better for snowfall).

    r.

    i'm afraid that sounds too good to be true:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Redsunset


    Weather of December 1981
    Snowiest of 20th century



    ne201201_1.jpg Over twenty years ago Britain had one of the coldest and snowiest months of the last century. Severe weather is rarer in December than it is in January and February, but December 1981 was a truly exceptional month. The night of the 12th-13th was a record-breaker as the mercury plunged below minus 18C widely, while a large part of the country was snowbound for more than three weeks.

    There was little sign of what was to come as the month opened. The early days were very mild and a maximum of 15C was reported from Aberdeen on the 3rd. Changes began the next day as the wind veered N'ly bringing snow showers to Scotland, but the very cold weather did not reach central and southern parts of the UK until the night of the 7th-8th when the temperature fell below freezing and heavy snow fell widely. Some 15cm fell in Wiltshire, Berkshire and the northern Home Counties, and with inadequate warnings road and rail transport was seriously dislocated, airports were closed, and electricity and telephone services were disr upted for thousands of customers.

    ne201201_2.gif Most exceptionally cold winters are characterised by long spells of dry and sunny weather punctuated by occasional snowfalls; December 1981 was different, with widespread and heavy snow occurring at regular intervals throughout the month. The second snowstorm on the 11th also hit southern England worst, paralysing roads and railways, and leaving 25-30cm of snow in total in some of the London suburbs. Just two days later a fierce blizzard swept England, Wales and Northern Ireland on the 13th, persisting over much of Scotland and northern England on the 14th where the Yorkshire Dales were buried under a metre of snow. Even the Queen did not escape - she was stranded for several hours in a Cotswold pub. Two ships foundered in the English Channel, sea-defences were breached along the Bristol Channel, and some homes in Somerset were without electricity for five days after.

    Further snow affected high ground in the West Country on the16th, northern Scotland on the 17th, and much of central and eastern England on the 20th-21st. After this fall snow lay 33cm deep in and around Lincoln and 10 inches deep in north London. High winds again caused havoc in our coastal waters, and on the 19th the Penlee lifeboat capsized as it went to the aid of a crippled cargo ship off the Cornish coast with a total of 16 lives lost. After a fine, frosty Christmas Day another belt of snow travelled eastwards across the country on the 27th, but thereafter a general thaw set in.

    In the brief interlude between the snowstorms of the 11th and 13th much of England was gripped by a frost of unprecedented intensity. At RAF Shawbury in Shropshire the temperature sank to minus 22.6C at daybreak on the 12th, climbed only to minus 12.1C that afternoon, then plummeted to minus 25.2C during the early hours of the 13th.


    Rrea00119811211.gif
    Rrea00219811211.gif










    Bloody hell dec and Jan were marginal,and thats when we get the best snowfall.

    Rrea00219820109.gif
    Rrea00119820109.gif




    The greatest disruption occurred on the 8th and 9th when an Atlantic depression moved into the Southwest Approaches; heavy snow accompanied by a gale force easterly wind produced one of the most severe blizzards of the century across southern England, the Midlands, Wales and Ireland. Throughout the snowfall, which lasted over 36 hours, temperatures were between -2 and -4C so the snow was dry and powdery and drifted freely in the wind.

    Transport services were completely dislocated over a wide area and millions of commuters failed to get to work in London two days running. South Wales was isolated for three days and troops were brought in to deliver essentials and to help clear roads. Worst hit were Gloucestershire, Monmouthshire and Glamorgan, where level snow lay over 60cm deep with drifts 6 metres high. Milder air reached Cornwall and south Devon, but heavy rain falling onto frozen ground in mid-Devon, south Somerset and west Dorset created extensive glazed ice in these areas.

    Following the blizzard the cold tightened its grip. Early on the morning of the 10th the temperature fell to -26.1C at Newport in Shropshire, breaking the record for England which had been set just four weeks earlier. In Scotland, Braemar recorded -27.2C on the same morning, equalling the UK's all-time record which had been set way back in 1895. The afternoon maximum temperature at Braemar was -19.1C, another new record. As far south as Wiltshire daytime maxima below -10C were recorded on the 13th as freezing fog blanketed many areas.


    Warmer weather returned after mid-month and the rest of the winter was mild and snow-free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭pauldry


    Id have a similar view to MT of this Winter coming. May not be as cold as last Winter temperaturewise but I have snow in my bones.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    From memory early 1977, winter 79-80; (1980-1981 was very mild); 81-82 were the last cold winters before 2009/2010.

    February 1986 was record cold but very dry and no snow; and there was a brief blast of extreme cold/snow in January 1987 that hardly lasted a week.

    Some places on the East Coast at sea level (eg Arklow) recorded no snow 'sticking' from 1987 till the last days of 2009.

    Am I rightish?

    :confused:

    IMG_0783-1.jpg

    Christmas Day 2004 looking from Tibradden down at Dublin Bay and the city.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭BEASTERLY


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    From memory early 1977, winter 79-80; (1980-1981 was very mild); 81-82 were the last cold winters before 2009/2010.

    February 1986 was record cold but very dry and no snow; and there was a brief blast of extreme cold/snow in January 1987 that hardly lasted a week.

    Some places on the East Coast at sea level (eg Arklow) recorded no snow 'sticking' from 1987 till the last days of 2009.

    Am I rightish?

    :confused:

    :eek:, really? well going by my last ten years near abour 15 miles away the east coast, 2000/01 , 04/05, 07/08 , 08/09 and of course the winter gone by, all had a very decent amounts of snow on varying occasions.

    I doubt 15 miles makes much difference?

    Another quick question, was last year the first time in a while the whole island was covered by snow
    at one time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    This is an improvement from the last forecast (in terms of cold) for Dec to March :

    http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/analysis_monitoring/lanina/images3/euT2mMon.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    Here's the Oct-Nov-Dec forecast of the Russian Hydrometeorological service, showing the composite probability of below/near/above normal temperature and precipitation.

    For us it looks like near normal precip and above normal temperatures. To our east there's a negative anomaly, so we'll let that fester into the new year, take a hit until then, and then from Jan on let it all feed through to us in a 3-month long easterly setup!



    composite-tsrf-prob-glb-HMC.gif


    composite-prec-prob-glb-HMC.gif


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    BEASTERLY wrote: »
    :eek:, really? well going by my last ten years near abour 15 miles away the east coast, 2000/01 , 04/05, 07/08 , 08/09 and of course the winter gone by, all had a very decent amounts of snow on varying occasions.

    I doubt 15 miles makes much difference?

    Actually it makes a huge difference. The difference between, for example, having snow in 01, 05, 08 and 09 and only having it in 09!

    I live 4 miles from the coast and we have perhaps ten times the number of days with snow lying in the past two decades compared with coast. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭desolate sun


    redsunset that was a great summary of the 1981 snow period. But it's horrible to hear of the loss of life. I absolutely adore the snow but am torn because my brother works nights driving and he dreads the kind of weather we had last year. He lost control of his van so many times last time and saw cars in ditches every night. I hope the government have some precautions in place this year. I don't care if they waste millions on salt that's never used, if it saves lives that's all that counts.
    I'm trying to convince my bro to get snow tyres this year - better out of pocket than dead


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭FlawedGenius


    Think people are getting there hopes up way too much for a severe winter with lots of snow like last year.
    Just because the last 2 winters were snowy doesnt increase our chances of another cold one this year, probably more likely it will be a normal winter, the last winter was a once in 30 year occurance. Hope Im wrong!!:)
    We should get more excited if we have lots of mild winters in a row, so we would be "due" a beast winter. However if we have another 5 severe winters in a row then maybe its a pattern and were heading into an ice age?:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Think people are getting there hopes up way too much for a severe winter with lots of snow like last year.
    Just because the last 2 winters were snowy doesnt increase our chances of another cold one this year, probably more likely it will be a normal winter, the last winter was a once in 30 year occurance. Hope Im wrong!!:)
    We should get more excited if we have lots of mild winters in a row, so we would be "due" a beast winter. However if we have another 5 severe winters in a row then maybe its a pattern and were heading into an ice age?:D

    Actually I think it was surprising how little snow we got last winter, relative to the length of the cold weather we had. I remember Eagleton during one of his forecasts after the news said that "we would be very lucky to escape a major snow event". While we did have some nice snow showers coming in from the Irish Sea etc we didnt get any major frontal snow dumpings or polar lows.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Living in Kilkenny, if in the city you mightn't see much snow, up on the hills you get snow regularly during the winter unless it is one of those unusually mild winters - however you will always get snow at some point.

    We got loads of snow last winter, down in the city they didn't get much and the distance was about 5 or 6 miles.
    The end of March was a great example, a real proper blizzard with blinding snow, you could measure snow in feet, in Kilkenny city they had rain.
    Took several days for the snow to melt on the hills.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    I can now 100% reliably state that this winter will be nothing but warm and wet.

    Why?
    I've just ordered a set of rather expensive winter tyres :D


    This prediction is bound to be correct, because the last time we bought a rather nice and expensive parasol in May (2008 I think) it bucketed with rain all summer and the thing was never used


  • Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭derekon


    peasant wrote: »
    I can now 100% reliably state that this winter will be nothing but warm and wet.

    Why?
    I've just ordered a set of rather expensive winter tyres :D


    This prediction is bound to be correct, because the last time we bought a rather nice and expensive parasol in May (2008 I think) it bucketed with rain all summer and the thing was never used

    You need not worry, those winter tyres will come in handy for winter 2010 - 2011 in Ireland. Mark my words!

    We are heading into a period of colder winters that commenced in early 09 with snowfall particularly over the Leinster region. This, as we all know, was followed by the big freeze last year. This winter might not be as cold but there will be more snow!


    Derek


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    the level of optimism round here is ridiculous . . .:P


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    derekon wrote: »
    We are heading into a period of colder winters that commenced in early 09 with snowfall particularly over the Leinster region.
    Derek

    And how do we know this? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,466 ✭✭✭Lumi


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    And how do we know this? :confused:
    Childlike faith, eternal optimism and that certain, intuitive sense of knowing that only true snow lovers can ever hope to attain!! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭derekon


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    And how do we know this? :confused:

    Well put it this way, my uncle has been an excellent predictor of seasons and was spot on in respect of last year

    He is forecasting a colder than average winter for Ireland which increases the snow risk.....

    Have faith, it will snow heavily throughout Ireland this year.
    Let's be honest, it makes a pleasant change from the rain :D

    Derek


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭thetonynator


    derekon wrote: »
    Well put it this way, my uncle has been an excellent predictor of seasons and was spot on in respect of last year

    He is forecasting a colder than average winter for Ireland which increases the snow risk.....

    Have faith, it will snow heavily throughout Ireland this year.
    Let's be honest, it makes a pleasant change from the rain :D

    Derek



    Well that forecast has about as much factual basis as ken rings forecasts . . . .:rolleyes:


    Speaking of, didnt see any september snow, or even september sub zero temperatures like he predicted . . . but maybe he meant september 3010 not 2010 . . .


  • Registered Users Posts: 836 ✭✭✭derekon


    Well that forecast has about as much factual basis as ken rings forecasts . . . .:rolleyes:


    Speaking of, didnt see any september snow, or even september sub zero temperatures like he predicted . . . but maybe he meant september 3010 not 2010 . . .

    True, you have a point about my Uncle's forecast being as reliable as those of Ken Ring. My uncle is on heavy medication so I better take what he says with a pinch of salt :D

    Derek


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    (Found elsewhere on the interwebs)

    Here is a little animated GIF showing the comparison of snow cover between Sept 29 2009 and Sept 29 2010.

    qyhuwpkw.gif

    More snow in Russia, central Asia, Northern Canada compared to this time last year.

    A good omen for a cold/snowy winter in our parts? :pac: :P


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Redsunset


    Another cold winter ahead?





    It's the time of the year when there is always a lot of interest in winter forecasts, more so than in previous years, largely as a result of what happened last winter - which as we all know was the coldest for over 30 years.

    And once again, a colder than average winter looks the most likely outcome based on the latest projections.
    The latest American model is shown below.
    WINTER2011.jpg

    The winter season is shown as colder than average - indicating that a 'blocked' weather pattern is on average likely to dominate with the jet stream further south than normal. The American model successfully predicted last winters' cold conditions.

    The Met Office don't issue their seasonal forecast to the general public anymore, using them for internal research purposes only, but as I understand it, their forecast also suggests that the probability of a cold winter is higher than normal.

    It would seem that one of the reasons for a higher probability of another cold winter is down to a forecast negative NAO (North Atlantic oscillation).

    The NAO is a way of describing pressure patterns in the Atlantic.
    Climatologically, a low-pressure system over Iceland and a high-pressure system over the Azores determine that westerly winds prevail across western Europe. The relative strength and position of these systems varies from year to year; this variation is known as the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO).

    A large difference in the pressure at the two stations (a high or positive NAO) leads to increased westerlies and mild and wet winters across the UK and Northwest Europe.

    In contrast, if the index is low (negative NAO) westerlies are suppressed, and the UK and Europe suffer cold winters as the jet stream steers depressions through Spain and Portugal and into the Mediterranean.
    The forecast NAO is calculated using a formula which incorporates sea surface temperature anomalies in Spring and early Summer.

    But a negative NAO does not always mean a cold winter here.
    For example, in the past, a negative NAO has been a successful indicator of a cold winter across Continent Europe - but with the UK right on the edge of milder air from the Atlantic, with a resulting battle between mild and wet weather from the west, and much colder weather further east.
    Of course readers by now know that the ongoing low solar activity, and the previous protracted solar cycle all suggest a higher than normal probability of a blocked winter weather pattern leading to colder than average weather conditions.

    There are of course no guarantees with long range forecasts, but It could be another very interesting winter if latest projections prove to be correct.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭BEASTERLY


    (Found elsewhere on the interwebs)

    Here is a little animated GIF showing the comparison of snow cover between Sept 29 2009 and Sept 29 2010.

    qyhuwpkw.gif

    More snow in Russia, central Asia, Northern Canada compared to this time last year.

    A good omen for a cold/snowy winter in our parts? :pac: :P

    I hope your not betraying boards and reading that fantastic thread over on the other (net)weather forum
    :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭maquiladora


    Redsunset, I think this is the most up to date one and shows a monthly breakdown :

    euT2mMon.gif

    October above average but Nov/Dec/Jan below average.


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