Art O'Neill Challenge 2011

nerraw1111 · 07-09-2010 10:59am #1

I see this event is back.

http://www.artoneillchallenge.com/

The reviews from the 2009, which raised money for Stuart Mangan, were fantastic.

55km from Dublin Castle to Glenmalure, leaving at midnight and follows Art O Neill and Red Hugh O Donnell's escape route in 1592.

Should be spectacular

Wonkagirl · 07-09-2010 11:03am

Looks good- that would be right up my alley- who is it in aid of this year?

RacoonQueen · 07-09-2010 11:11am

I'm almost definitely doing this. Couple of others on here were talking about it too.

Wonkagirl · 07-09-2010 12:10pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm almost definitely doing this. Couple of others on here were talking about it too.

Is it just a hike, or is it multi discipline (assume the former given the time of day)?

There's very scant details on the site, and the 'Register now' just brings you to the mycharity homepage. So it's safe to assume it's in aid of a charity, but it doesnt say which one

Definitely sounds like something i'd be into one way or another though, i did a few night hikes in nepal and NZ and it's a great buzz

Aimman · 07-09-2010 12:38pm

I'm thinking about this too. There is a mention on the site abit running it.

In the 'route' tab is says

It is recommended that both hikers and ultra runners familiarise themselves with the route using maps and the grid references below, before they begin the challenge.

So there must be different options to hike it or run it. Think the hike might be more entertaining and social though, but would be tempted to run it.

Was it cancelled this year because of the snow?

nerraw1111 · 07-09-2010 12:45pm

4 stars (good)

It was a hike/ ultra run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_kKX_Sb4o4

I think about 10 ran it in 2009 with vast majority walking it. No event was planned for 2010.

Review of the event here.

http://www.stuartmangan.org/smangan/default.asp?contentID=9

hunnymonster · 07-09-2010 12:49pm

We did a hybrid hike/run the year we did it. Ran up the road portion and then joined one of the hiking groups. The hikers set out a couple of hours before the runners. I wasn't at all confident about navigation (as those who watched me circling Dingle on Saturday looking for my car will confirm!) and I didn't think snow covered mountains in the middle of the night were the time to try for the first time so it was great for us.

jeffontour · 07-09-2010 12:53pm

I ran it last year, great craic. Although the run out on the road to Kippure is a bit boring the rest certainly makes up for it.

Climbing up the ice covered surface to Art's Cross feeling like I was in Canada or somewhere was one of many highlights for me but the porridge at arts kitchen was THE highlight if pushed to pick just one!

Rinker · 07-09-2010 1:15pm

Wow, what an amazing challenge. The race report is brilliant too.
I'd really love to have a go at running it. It'd definitely give me a good reason to stay training through the winter. I'll be keenly awaiting any updates on this one.

Wonkagirl · 07-09-2010 2:10pm

I love the idea of a hybrid hike/run.. what a brilliant way to start your new yrs fitness goals!! Will be following updates with great interest..

shipstirrer · 07-09-2010 3:28pm

word on the grapevine is that the site will be ready next week and that there is an ultra running race with a hybrid option. The Art Nav Night is a gps training night with a mountain leader, to certify that you can do the art under your own steam, without a guide. Would be a good option for ultra runners who want to go it alone......

GoHardOrGoHome · 07-09-2010 11:24pm

shipstirrer wrote: »

word on the grapevine is that the site will be ready next week and that there is an ultra running race with a hybrid option. The Art Nav Night is a gps training night with a mountain leader, to certify that you can do the art under your own steam, without a guide. Would be a good option for ultra runners who want to go it alone......

I heard that you might be able to do it in a team which is less risky than the on-your-own option. I'll be attending the gps training night and hopefully JeffOnTour can show me what it's like to run for hours during the night. Reckon we'd have a similar speed on a race of that distance. 55k with quite a lot of altitude gain is a fairly tough proposition. What time did Enduro do it in last year?

kingQuez · 08-09-2010 12:32pm

Anyone got a route map for it? Im curious what the run/hike breakdown would be if you went that route.

jeffontour · 08-09-2010 1:42pm

kingQuez wrote: »

Anyone got a route map for it? Im curious what the run/hike breakdown would be if you went that route.

26km on road to Kippure adventure centre place, 30km mostly cross country from there as we went.

See here for Garmin connect link to route.

Took me 9:41, Enduro took a much more direct route and is obviously much quicker so think it took him 6:30 or so(feel free to jump here with a correction Enduro!). We followed the suggested route, there are more direct routes though which I'll be taking in January I think!

jeffontour · 08-09-2010 1:44pm

GoHardOrGoHome wrote: »

JeffOnTour can show me what it's like to run for hours during the night

I'll swap you that for getting me through the kayaking of the Cooley Raid reasonably dry!

SUNGOD · 25-09-2010 11:32am

i see the website is still not ready yet.

just a quick question, i see aldi have walking/hiking gear out on thursday

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/offers_week39Thursday10.htm?WT.z_src=main

would this be ok for this event, thinking boots and jacket as i will prob only wearing them a couple of times to break in and on the night and im on a budget.

still only thinking about doing this but its looking highly likely that i will

any veiws welcome

RacoonQueen · 25-09-2010 11:48am

Would you not be running it? Aren't they seperating it this year into a race and then a walking/hiking event or something along those lines?

mithril · 25-09-2010 1:31pm

As RacoonQueen says, a lot depends on what approach you are adopting.
I assume you will be running the initial leg to Kippure?
Are you planning on hiking the off-road section in the dark or running this as well?

SUNGOD · 25-09-2010 3:08pm

hope to run it but as i have no navigation skills i thought i might have to end up doing the same as hunnymonster last year , a run/hike where i run the first runnable section then fall in with a hiking group
ideally i would love to run it but would need to be part of a running group so i wouldnt get lost.
as site is down im not sure if its a seperate run and a hike
well RQ mirthil what do ye hope to do?
any takers on a running group?

mithril · 25-09-2010 4:31pm

Running group works for me. It could be very hostile in the wrong conditions - minus 8 at night one year - so it makes a lot of sense to stick together.
I have a reasonable grasp of the route and we should be OK with the help of GPS if we get a couple of recces in beforehand.
I am inclined to run/jog on the the roads and trails but walk the sections of rough ground. Still carrying an injury so would not be able to run it at the moment but hoping to have shaken this off by January.

Enduro · 25-09-2010 10:30pm

4 stars (good)

mithril wrote: »

I am inclined to run/jog on the the roads and trails but walk the sections of rough ground. Still carrying an injury so would not be able to run it at the moment but hoping to have shaken this off by January.

It's mostly off road after the Kippure checkpoint, so if you're still intent on walking rough ground you might be as well off to join with one of the faster walking groups. But then you'd be missing the joy of proper off road running!

Aimman · 25-09-2010 10:37pm

How easy it it running off road in the middle of a winter's night? I suppose a headlamp would be needed.

Enduro · 25-09-2010 11:05pm

4 stars (good)

Aimman wrote: »

How easy it it running off road in the middle of a winter's night? I suppose a headlamp would be needed.

It's not easy. Its pretty gnarly. It was one of the few events I've done where I had a moment of realisation in the middle of it that what I was doing was bonkers

But then, that's the great attraction of the thing (and quite a complement to the event).

A headtorch will presumably be mandatory for the event. Even if it isn't make sure you bring one (With enough battery power to see you all the way to dawn).

mithril · 26-09-2010 7:28pm

I agree there are not many roads, but there are quite a few sections of good trails that appear safely runnable in the dark, and where you would make better progress than a walking group.

From a couple of recces and a close reading of the maps, this is what I am thinking of doing:

Walk initially from Kippure House across the river (not sure where bridge is ?) along shoulder of Ballybrockan Hill until connect with road. Looks to be about 1KM. Not sure if any of this is runnable?

About 4KM run on the road to Ballynultagh Car park.

2KM jog on good stony trail to top of Black Hill.

4.5KM walk on rough ground over Billy Byrnes Gap until connect with forest trail near intersection of Ballinagee River and Gowran brook.

2 KM run on forest trail southwards until reach the R756 just south of Ballinagee Bridge

3KM run on a forest trail until reach the Glenreemore Brook.

2km walk following the river until reach Art's Cross.
Ascend the ramp here.

1 KM walk on rough ground south west until reach Three Lakes.

1 KM walk due south until reach river.

1 KM walk south following river until reach Table Track forest trail.

3.5 KM run on Table Track south east until reach finish at Barravore.

Comments?

SUNGOD · 27-09-2010 7:34am

afraid i have to plead ignorence on the route but that sounds good to me
i wont be able to pre-run any of the course but will study the map
prob a stupid Q but is it the exact same route as last time?
site still not up
but if you want company on the night im in

jeffontour · 27-09-2010 9:26am

Aimman wrote: »

How easy it it running off road in the middle of a winter's night? I suppose a headlamp would be needed.

The weather leading up to the event and on the night will play a large part in this, as well as route choice.

Last year it was chilly on the night and had been cold in the weeks leading up to it so the ground was well frozen. Made for some tough running/ice climbing at points but it's just a matter of slowing your pace a little to account for the reduced vision at night. A lot of the time the underfoot conditions slow you down sufficiently to ensure the head torch is more than adequate to light your way.

jeffontour · 27-09-2010 9:28am

SUNGOD wrote: »

afraid i have to plead ignorence on the route but that sounds good to me
i wont be able to pre-run any of the course but will study the map
prob a stupid Q but is it the exact same route as last time?
site still not up
but if you want company on the night im in

Think there's a suggested route but it's not set in stone or doesn't have marshalls checking that I'm aware of. It's point to point as far as I know.

mithril · 27-09-2010 9:45am

SUNGOD wrote: »

afraid i have to plead ignorence on the route but that sounds good to me
i wont be able to pre-run any of the course but will study the map
prob a stupid Q but is it the exact same route as last time?
site still not up
but if you want company on the night im in

There are quicker, and entirely legitimate ways of getting from point to point, but what I have above follows the traditional walking route fairly closely. I am not running this for a fast time.

Glad of the company. The more the merrier.

SUNGOD · 27-09-2010 9:53am

sounds good to me mithril
might have RQ(dont think she will be able to resist doing it:D) and a few more taking part as the date gets closer
we will know more when site is up

dare2be · 27-09-2010 11:54am

I'd like to give it a go as well. Nothing like a bit out of the ordinary event to wet the apetite for winter training. Could i tag along also? Just to complete it would be good enough for me.

mithril · 27-09-2010 12:14pm

Just to point out from safety point of view, no-one should attempt to run this unless they have completed a regular road marathon before without difficulty. This will be a good deal tougher and you don't want to "hit the wall" in the dark and cold miles from help. Completion time is not that important; its having the endurance and the miles in the legs that is required.

Git101 · 27-09-2010 12:44pm

4 stars (good)

Met the organiser, Gearoid on Saturday at WAR Glenmalure and the fecker has sown a seed.
This looks to be an interesting event. I'm thinking hard about giving it a go.

dare2be · 27-09-2010 12:48pm

mithril wrote: »

Just to point out from safety point of view, no-one should attempt to run this unless they have completed a regular road marathon before without difficulty. This will be a good deal tougher and you don't want to "hit the wall" in the dark and cold miles from help. Completion time is not that important; its having the endurance and the miles in the legs that is required.

Point taken. So starting to train for it now would be about right or would i have missed the boat so to speak?

Enduro · 27-09-2010 12:56pm

4 stars (good)

mithril wrote: »

I agree there are not many roads, but there are quite a few sections of good trails that appear safely runnable in the dark, and where you would make better progress than a walking group.

From a couple of recces and a close reading of the maps, this is what I am thinking of doing:

Walk initially from Kippure House across the river (not sure where bridge is ?) along shoulder of Ballybrockan Hill until connect with road. Looks to be about 1KM. Not sure if any of this is runnable?

About 4KM run on the road to Ballynultagh Car park.

2KM jog on good stony trail to top of Black Hill.

4.5KM walk on rough ground over Billy Byrnes Gap until connect with forest trail near intersection of Ballinagee River and Gowran brook.

2 KM run on forest trail southwards until reach the R756 just south of Ballinagee Bridge

3KM run on a forest trail until reach the Glenreemore Brook.

2km walk following the river until reach Art's Cross.
Ascend the ramp here.

1 KM walk on rough ground south west until reach Three Lakes.

1 KM walk due south until reach river.

1 KM walk south following river until reach Table Track forest trail.

3.5 KM run on Table Track south east until reach finish at Barravore.

Comments?

Without access to maps at the moment that reads pretty accurately, with one or two small adjustments. The route out of Kippure house goes down to a bridge over the river. From there you climb to the peak of the hill south and pick up the track that runs off the peak westwards. That takes you directly to the road out. The official route from Billy Byrnes gap was different, and took a slightly more western route. All the rest sounds good. Navigation is at a premium from Art's Cross to Glenmalure.

It's worth sticking to the suggested route as best you can. It gives the mountain rescue lads a much better chance of finding you (and in a winter run like this there is always the chance of something unexpected happening). Definitely hit the checkpoints, as otherwise you'll cause a panic.

As Jeff says, there is no problem using a headtorh for visibility. In fact when I ran it I didn't even need to use that, as there was enough ambient light for me to see what I needed to. A darker night would have required it though.

And don't forget, to complete it you can always just walk if running is too difficult. Plenty of the route is so difficult that it has to be walked anyway (climbing towards Art's Cross being the most obvious example that springs to mind)

mithril · 27-09-2010 3:34pm

dare2be wrote: »

Point taken. So starting to train for it now would be about right or would i have missed the boat so to speak?

If in doubt, do the run from Dublin Castle to Kippure, then take a call as to whether to join a fast walking group or stick with the original group who will attempt to run on a bit more.

An awful lot depends on the weather.
Don't underestimate how awful it can be to walk for hours in hail or driving rain across bad terrain in the dark or how easy it is to die of exposure in the hills with a bad sequence of luck.

The last time I did something like this was a sponsored attempt to climb the highest point in every country in Ireland inside 100 hours which involved a lot of night running. We had a girl who thought she broke her ankle - turned out to be a severe sprain - on Cuilcagh mountain in Cavan and had to carry her down in the dark and rain. If she had been separated from the group, she could have lost her life very easily.

shipstirrer · 01-10-2010 5:44pm

www.artoneillchallenge.com is now live

sarsfieldsrock · 01-10-2010 6:26pm

What way will the trails be marked for this? Will there be any signs marking the course or is it self navigation.
I am seriously thinking of doing this but would only have run well marked trails before. I have done night trail runs but they are very well marked at the turns.

shipstirrer · 01-10-2010 6:57pm

all details on site. trails are not marked, you need to be a good navigator or join one of the guided groups.

shipstirrer · 01-10-2010 6:59pm

if you are doing the ultra there are several options you can have. go it alone, go it alone to 25k and join in with other runners who need leading or go alone to 25k and join a walking group. you can also enter as a team with one or two competent navigators

ThisRegard · 01-10-2010 7:01pm

I'm guessing they're not marked at all, or if so, poorly. Hence the need for guides, navigators on teams and the links to a navigation course.

sarsfieldsrock · 01-10-2010 7:07pm

There is a garmin connect activity link earlier in the thread showing the 2009 route. Will the 2011 route be the exact same route and if so could you use that on another Garmin to follow the route?

ThisRegard · 01-10-2010 7:13pm

On the Art site there's a Garmin route from a competitor in a previous race so presumably that will be the course. There's also fairly detailed description on the course page.

shipstirrer · 01-10-2010 7:44pm

site has all the details pretty clear. same route as last time.

nerraw1111 · 04-10-2010 3:45pm

4 stars (good)

So in terms of training, can anyone recommend a training plan? Or is it a case of following a regular marathon plan and perhaps doing the long sunday runs on trails/hills?

It's a great challenge, would love to give it a shot.

Antigrav · 04-10-2010 4:56pm

You can learn from the fatality that ocurred on the inaugural staging of this event.

1. The competitor had inadequate clothing, having left his jacket in the toilet at the start

2. Nutrition prior to the event was poor

3. No food or drink was consumed during the race, except beer

3. Two competitors had not covered significant distances before due to restricted movement

4. The footware worn was not suitable for hill walking

5. Mountain rescue were late on the scene

All of the above risks are avoidable with foresight, planning, and good training

shipstirrer · 04-10-2010 5:32pm

When was that Antigrav? Sounds like someone who should have been nowhere near a hill.

First time this event was staged it was 2009 when it was fully supported with food, guides and mountain rescue with not even a sprained ankle to report on.

Before 2009, the Art O Neill walk took place but it was in no way an organised event like it is now. It was up to individuals themselves to sort themselves out.

Different scenario now.

Enduro and Jeff on Tour ran it last time and should be able to offer good advice on training and what to expect

nerraw1111 · 04-10-2010 6:24pm

4 stars (good)

shipstirrer wrote: »

When was that Antigrav? Sounds like someone who should have been nowhere near a hill.

First time this event was staged it was 2009 when it was fully supported with food, guides and mountain rescue with not even a sprained ankle to report on.

Before 2009, the Art O Neill walk took place but it was in no way an organised event like it is now. It was up to individuals themselves to sort themselves out.

Different scenario now.

Enduro and Jeff on Tour ran it last time and should be able to offer good advice on training and what to expect

I think he's talking about Art himself! No merino wool in those days.

donothoponpop · 04-10-2010 7:08pm

Brilliant AntiGrav, took me hook line and sinker!

shipstirrer · 04-10-2010 7:10pm

Ya fecker antigrav !!! Just reread ur post

good one

Rinker · 04-10-2010 9:45pm

nerraw1111 wrote: »

So in terms of training, can anyone recommend a training plan? Or is it a case of following a regular marathon plan and perhaps doing the long sunday runs on trails/hills?

It's a great challenge, would love to give it a shot.

Likewise I'd like to have a go at this race. Can anyone offer any advice on gear especially head torches before I rush out and buy an unsuitable one?
I'm planning on running stretches of the wicklow way as training and doing some course recce's. During daylight at first but it'd probably be a good idea to get some night running in too.

sarsfieldsrock · 05-10-2010 6:07am

You can get expensive ones and to see the specialized ones just type "running head torch" into a google search. It will probably come back with Petzl as the brand.
I have run a few night races and use an Energizer head torch that I bought in Dunnes for €8. Now the races I have used it in have had a lot of other runners with head torches but I have also run on the Curragh on my own with it and it shows the way quite well.
What will be more important will be the clothing and footwear that you select for this. You can expect fairly harsh weather in Jan so wear a few layers and get a pair of good gloves and a good hat and make sure there is no cotton clothing worn.

Art O'Neill Challenge 2011

Rate this race based on, Scenery, PB potential, Atmosphere, Value, Organisation 18 votes

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