Why Down with Maximuscle?

Doug Cartel · 29-09-2010 09:58AM

seven-iron wrote: »

Some interesting points. However, I stand by my earlier post. In times gone by I would only take one supplement. Now my stack consists of two, promax and cyclone. After 5 days I feel great. Today I rested, so my muscles recover and grow a bit.

This doesn't even make sense to me. As far as I can see Cyclone is Promax with added creatine and glucose. Why would you stack them? Why not just take Cyclone, or else Promax and add your own creatine and glucose?

seven-iron · 29-09-2010 11:00AM

That was always the issue.

At the start maybe it was but then people started get very defensive about what stacks they buy.

This has to be one of the most retarded threads I've read on here, no doubt those claiming they've made great gains from MM have gone from benching 35kg to 40kg overnight.

Well we cant all be experts who were born bench pressing 90kgs. I have to start somewhere. You may have been born with <Mod Snip>Offensive term removed</Mod Snip>super like strength but I was not.

EDIT: Doug.... I wouldnt eat too many large meals like steaks. For instance I had pasta last night. So Promax included in the stack helps me load up to my daily 100g mark.

Doug Cartel · 29-09-2010 11:07AM

Oh god, I just realised I used the word "stack" in my last post.

Hanley · 29-09-2010 11:16AM

soc$ wrote: »

I agree with what you say 100% but after Alain Baxter got done in 2002 olympics I was always very paranoid about testing so it made me feel better -

Yea I know that for sure - not to mention over the counter mediacations - I was a regular visitor of the eirpharm site to check medications before taking them (off-topic I know, sorry)

Alain Baxter was popped for stimulants which came from an OTC med. It's widely know that the decongestants used in those products have stimulant properties (look at the controversy over pseudoephedrine in sudafed). They're included for a purpose, and listed on the label.

I'm sorry, but it's utterly ridiculous that you're trying to say that because a guy had a positive test for a stim from an OTC med, which was included for.a.reason AND listed on the label, that the same is liable to happen from protein.

soc$ · 29-09-2010 01:30PM

Hanley wrote: »

Alain Baxter was popped for stimulants which came from an OTC med. It's widely know that the decongestants used in those products have stimulant properties (look at the controversy over pseudoephedrine in sudafed). They're included for a purpose, and listed on the label.

I'm sorry, but it's utterly ridiculous that you're trying to say that because a guy had a positive test for a stim from an OTC med, which was included for.a.reason AND listed on the label, that the same is liable to happen from protein.

First up, you're completely misinterpreting me - all I said was that I personally was paranoid and as a result I personally adopted the approach of minimising risk no matter how silly it might see to others.

Secondly, it may be widely known that some decongestants have stimulant properties or that they may vary from country to country for an expert like you but for people new to the testing system I doubt very much they are experts.

Thirdly, you have no real idea what happened with Alain Baxter - knowing the guy and having extensive interaction with other British Team Members and having followed his case closely you're incorrect - he did not test positive for a stimulant - he tested positive for a non-stimulant isomer of a banned stimulant. The point about his case is that the test conducted did not differentiate between methampethamine and it's non-stimulant isomers. This was proven on appeal and his ban recinded as a result - in addition I'm fairly sure I heard that WADA refined their test to distinguish between such substances. Actually if you read his book it's all in there -

In fact it was so obvious that he'd done nothing wrong and gained no advantage that Beni Raich (who came 4th) actually refused to take the bronze medal until the Austrian ski fed gave him no choice - take the medal or leave the team - politics in relation to medal counts.

Fourthly, it's a bull**** conversation as all I did was post what I was advised in the past - if you don't like it or agree with it then fine - it's called a difference in opinion - but why you feel the need to belittle someone else's opinion/experiences just because you don't personally agree with it is beyond me - strikes me that with some people on here the board is only useful if you're agreeing with their devine wisdom.

mloc · 29-09-2010 02:02PM

This is all getting very complicated.

Quality wise, there is nothing particularly wrong with MaxiMuscle. The issue is that it is overpriced, and by buying another brand, you are getting essentially the same thing for a lot less.

If you'd rather buy MaxiMuscle, that's fine; it's the same product. Maybe you like the taste. Maybe you like the colour of the tub. Whatever. You'll have to keep in mind however that most people who know better will look at you and think "this guy really doesn't have a clue about value for money".

That's fine. It's not a big deal; most people who are idiots are unaware of the fact they are idiots, and if they are happy with that, fair play to them. It's not my money they are wasting.

seven-iron · 29-09-2010 03:52PM

That's fine. It's not a big deal; most people who are idiots are unaware of the fact they are idiots, and if they are happy with that, fair play to them. It's not my money they are wasting.

Yes everyone else is the idiot:rolleyes:
Or maybe they have more money than you

Doug Cartel · 29-09-2010 04:21PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Or maybe they have more money than you

Not for long though if they keep spending it so frivolously.

mloc · 29-09-2010 04:49PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes everyone else is the idiot:rolleyes:
Or maybe they have more money than you

Oh dear. You're missing the point.

I could certainly afford to use MaxiMuscle for my whey needs, but why would I? Why would anybody?

908g of Promax on the Maximuscle website : 39.99
That's 44.04 a kilo

2268g of ON Gold Standard on nutrition connection website: 44.99
That's 19.83 a kilo

2268g of MyProtein True Whey: 32 euro (converted from sterling)
That's 14.10 a kilo

All the above are in tubs with scoops. If you can go without and get a sack:

5000g of MyProtein Chococlate Impact Whey Protein : 52.15 (also converted from sterling)
That's 10.43 a kilo

If anyone wants go ahead and spend 3-4 times as much on the same thing, idiots they are indeed.

SpookyBastard · 29-09-2010 10:54PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes everyone else is the idiot:rolleyes:
Or maybe they have more money than you

Your kidding, right seven?

We've gone over the fact that MM is considerably more expensive and that there is no need to pay so much. This has been said in several different ways and backed up with actual pricing data and you're argument boils down to 'It's not over spending, we're just richer than you' ....

If that's really how you feel to then I have a Mars bar to sell you... sure it costs €40 but it's the best mars bar ever and after seeing how much I can lift and my recommending it to you, you'll pay the money?? Oh and also, you might want to pay another €40 for my Dairy Milk Xtreme so you can stack (sorry Hanley) them together!

:rolleyes:

Also, 'born with retarded like strength' ? Ah yes, because an offensive and bigoted comment like that is a great way to support your argument

Esse85 · 29-09-2010 11:18PM

mloc wrote: »

Oh dear. You're missing the point.

I could certainly afford to use MaxiMuscle for my whey needs, but why would I? Why would anybody?

908g of Promax on the Maximuscle website : 39.99
That's 44.04 a kilo

2268g of ON Gold Standard on nutrition connection website: 44.99
That's 19.83 a kilo

2268g of MyProtein True Whey: 32 euro (converted from sterling)
That's 14.10 a kilo

All the above are in tubs with scoops. If you can go without and get a sack:

5000g of MyProtein Chococlate Impact Whey Protein : 52.15 (also converted from sterling)
That's 10.43 a kilo

If anyone wants go ahead and spend 3-4 times as much on the same thing, idiots they are indeed.

Flavoured can be got for €40.58 using the pricematcher making that €8.11 a kilo

Mellor · 30-09-2010 05:27AM

seven-iron wrote: »

Well we cant all be experts who were born bench pressing 90kgs. I have to start somewhere. You may have been born with <Mod Snip>Offensive term removed</Mod Snip> like strength but I was not.

This is prob the most ignorant thing on this whole thread. Well done.

soc$ wrote: »

Thirdly, you have no real idea what happened with Alain Baxter - knowing the guy and having extensive interaction with other British Team Members and having followed his case closely you're incorrect - he did not test positive for a stimulant - he tested positive for a non-stimulant isomer of a banned stimulant. The point about his case is that the test conducted did not differentiate between methampethamine and it's non-stimulant isomers. This was proven on appeal and his ban recinded as a result - in addition I'm fairly sure I heard that WADA refined their test to distinguish between such substances.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here.

It was an isomer of methamphetamine. That he inadvertantly took via a vicks inhaler (in the US). It has almost non existent stimulant effects, which is irrelevent as WADA don't ban "stimulants" they ban methamphetamine and its isomers, stimulating or otherwise. The subtances he tested positive for was banned simply by being an isomer, weather it should be is a different matter. And, in actually fact the paticular isomer that he failed on has since been added individually specified on the banned list.

Andrew Bree failed a test for the same subtances in 2008 ahead of Bejing. It came from a Vicks inhaler also. He was allowed to compete after appeal

But, i have no idea how you relate the mistakenly taking a banned product with protein supps being tainted with steroids?
Don't believe everything people tell you.
If protein were a possible cause for failing, we would here of at least a few of the thousands of athlete taking it failing regularly. Protein is so widespread that the sporting world in one big giant case study.

Hanley · 30-09-2010 05:52AM

Mellor wrote: »

This is prob the most ignorant thing on this whole thread. Well done.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here.

It was an isomer of methamphetamine. That he inadvertantly took via a vicks inhaler (in the US). It has almost non existent stimulant effects, which is irrelevent as WADA don't ban "stimulants" they ban methamphetamine and its isomers, stimulating or otherwise. The subtances he tested positive for was banned simply by being an isomer, weather it should be is a different matter. And, in actually fact the paticular isomer that he failed on has since been added individually specified on the banned list.

Andrew Bree failed a test for the same subtances in 2008 ahead of Bejing. It came from a Vicks inhaler also. He was allowed to compete after appeal

But, i have no idea how you relate the mistakenly taking a banned product with protein supps being tainted with steroids?
Don't believe everything people tell you.
If protein were a possible cause for failing, we would here of at least a few of the thousands of athlete taking it failing regularly. Protein is so widespread that the sporting world in one big giant case study.

I've given up at this stage. THe fact you're right and making sense won't matter.

Good post tho.

soc$ · 30-09-2010 07:41AM

Mellor wrote: »

It was an isomer of methamphetamine. That he inadvertantly took via a vicks inhaler (in the US). It has almost non existent stimulant effects, which is irrelevent as WADA don't ban "stimulants" they ban methamphetamine and its isomers, stimulating or otherwise. The subtances he tested positive for was banned simply by being an isomer, weather it should be is a different matter. And, in actually fact the paticular isomer that he failed on has since been added individually specified on the banned list.

Andrew Bree failed a test for the same subtances in 2008 ahead of Bejing. It came from a Vicks inhaler also. He was allowed to compete after appeal

I accept I could be wrong that WADA added a test to distginsuish from this isomer and I did indicate I'd heard it as opposed to read it in a confirmed source & after checking I'm not afraid to say I stand corrected. But that really wasn't the point of what I was saying - I was simply refuting Hanley's rather sweeping description of what happened as that painted a completely different picture of the events as they occured.

Mellor wrote: »

But, i have no idea how you relate the mistakenly taking a banned product with protein supps being tainted with steroids?
Don't believe everything people tell you.
If protein were a possible cause for failing, we would here of at least a few of the thousands of athlete taking it failing regularly. Protein is so widespread that the sporting world in one big giant case study.

If I gave that impression I apologise - I wasn't trying to make any connection - I was simply saying that this single event (because I knew the guy and guys on the team) made me paranoid about testing - that's testing in general. What I said about protein was unrelated and a generalisation which comes from me having been told to steer clear of US manufactured products - for me it doesn't really matter whether it's true or not or it's scare mongering or whatever - it was paranoia pushing me to err on the side of caution.

I've never been on a forum that has so many people ready and waiting to jump down your throat for a post (not saying you're one at all) - I think I'll go back to lurking - it's less grief

seven-iron · 30-09-2010 10:25AM

Your kidding, right seven?

Well.. you know what i mean...

All I was trying to say was that I need MM in order to lift more and grow a bit bigger. The reason I went for MM products is they are well known and respected as was discussed earlier in the thread. Yes they seem to be more expensive but I suppose some people say they are premium. For instance cyclone is an all-in-1 formula which is why you pay extra maybe??
It depends what way you look at it.

I've never been on a forum that has so many people ready and waiting to jump down your throat for a post (not saying you're one at all) - I think I'll go back to lurking - it's less grief

Yes some people on here are very steadfast in their views.

If protein were a possible cause for failing, we would here of at least a few of the thousands of athlete taking it failing regularly. Protein is so widespread that the sporting world in one big giant case study.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11441045

You'll have to eat your words now. stack them with a MM shake?? i kid

Brian? · 30-09-2010 10:49AM

seven-iron wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11441045

You'll have to eat your words now. stack them with a MM shake?? i kid

Where does it say Contador is blaming it on Protein powder????

He's blaming it on steak. Why sounds like a bare faced lie.

SanoVitae · 30-09-2010 10:59AM

briankeating wrote: »

He's blaming it on steak. Why sounds like a bare faced lie.

I wouldn't be so sure he's lying - did you see the steak he ate?

Esse85 · 30-09-2010 11:02AM

Hanley · 30-09-2010 11:34AM

seven-iron wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11441045

You'll have to eat your words now. stack them with a MM shake?? i kid

It never fails to make me laugh when people believe athletes who say they're a victim of cross contamination.

SanoVitae · 30-09-2010 11:56AM

I'm currently taking Optimum Nutrition's "Oats And Whey" - I absolutely love it and find it very good value for money. Mixes very easily, tastes great and is great value for money IMO.

john_cappa · 30-09-2010 01:04PM

I have been reading this and laughing very hard!! MM are a high quality brand IMO, good products. But their products are no better than similar products at cheaper prices. I would rate reflexs one stop far higher in terms of quality than cyclone! Cheaper also!

SanoVitae wrote: »

I'm currently taking Optimum Nutrition's "Oats And Whey" - I absolutely love it and find it very good value for money. Mixes very easily, tastes great and is great value for money IMO.

How is it good value? look at the ingredients mate and think about it? is it really good value? I doubt it!

Not dissing "ON"! That are a good quality brand! That supp def aint good "value" though!

Doug Cartel · 30-09-2010 01:57PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes they seem to be more expensive but I suppose some people say they are premium.

It's the exact same stuff as the cheaper alternatives, what is the premium?

For instance cyclone is an all-in-1 formula which is why you pay extra maybe??

First, there are plenty of other all-in-1 formulas out there. Secondly, it's just basic whey mixed with creatine and glucose, two of the cheapest things out there. Thirdly, it doesn't seem to work as an all-in-1 formula for you, as you mix it with another whey product.

SpookyBastard · 01-10-2010 06:42PM

seven-iron wrote: »

All I was trying to say was that I need MM in order to lift more and grow a bit bigger.

That's just the thing seven, you don't. You've no reason to believe me I guess but I'm actually trying to help you. That's the funny thing. This isn't about brand loyalty / fanboyism or getting the absolute cheapest product. You think you need MM to get the best results and I'm trying to help you save some cash by pointing out that they're over priced for what you are getting.

Let me give an example. Say you were asking how to improve your strength, we would advise you on what you needed to do because, despite some of the egos you see on here (and all forums), we're genuinely interested in helping folks who want to get fitter.

It's the same thing with supplements. I'm not saying don't buy MM because I 'hate MM and they're rubbish anyway', etc etc. I'm saying MM is about 25% more expensive than you need to pay to get the supplements you 'need'. It's like saying you don't need to buy Kellogs All Bran because there are identical products out there. You don't need Kellogs All Bran, you need fibre... if you get me? You don't need MM Whey, you need Whey.

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes they seem to be more expensive but I suppose some people say they are premium. For instance cyclone is an all-in-1 formula which is why you pay extra maybe??

High price does not equal premium product. There is a difference between cost and value. If i buy a €5 shirt in penny's and sell it to you for €100 you have not received €100's worth of shirt. You have paid the 100 but not received the value you deserved.

Also, from what I've seen, a lot of all-in-1 products don't have enough of the added extras to actually make them worth the extra money. Creatine is often included in all-in-ones but in such low amounts to actually not be a proper dose at the products serving size. If you want to get the full potential benefit of something like Creatine you need to take enough of it.

Look, at the end of the day this is just some advice on how to get the supplements you want at a more reasonable price. I know some people don't like the idea of unbranded products in big unmarked bags and that's why I suggested the other top brands that are still much cheaper than MM. You don't have to stop buying MM and you wont make bigger gains buying the same products from another brand. I just like the idea of you getting more protein, creatine, etc for the same money and having the spare cash to buy yourself a nice xmas pressie :rolleyes:

DARCHA22 · 01-10-2010 11:29PM

OVERPRICED
TASTES LIKE SH!T
NO VALUE FOR MONEY

SOLUTION: GO ELSEWHERE

www.predatornutrition.com

www.myprotein.co.uk

www.musclefinesse.co.uk

www.bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk

www.discountsupplements.co.uk

dont by MM ****e, theres better out there

Armedocr · 02-10-2010 02:14AM

Having a skim through the MM site there. Literally Mind=Blown.
A tub of cyclone that's slightly over 5lbs in 100euro.

That's around 20 per pound of protein.

TWENTY EURO for 453g of whey isolate and a bit of creatine and gluatmine peptides thrown in....two of the cheapest things you can buy in bulk.

Redonkulous!

RMD · 02-10-2010 02:50AM

MM is nothing more than an average supplement company with a successful advertising campaign. It's not some miracle product, it's whey wont make you any bigger than other whey, it's creatine is the same as other creatines etc. You're paying rip-off prices for standard ingredients swirled together. Much better off buying individual products in large amounts.

2.7kg tub of Cyclone is 100 euro on their site.
5kg of whey protein and 1kg creatine works out at about 70-75 euro on myprotein. It's just as good, the exact same product, mixes easily and tastes good. You're paying absolutely insane prices for average products if you go for MM.

Mellor · 05-10-2010 07:10AM

seven-iron wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11441045

You'll have to eat your words now. stack them with a MM shake?? i kid

Eat my words???
epic reference fail imo

Not once does it mention that he tested positive for clenbutrol via his protein shake?

And even if that's where he said it came from, he is almost certainly lying. The guy is and has been repeatedly accused of cheating, I don't think his word is worth much.

wersal gummage · 09-10-2010 02:00AM

interesting read (the bits about protein powder anyway).

have been out of the gym for nearly two years due to an unrelated injury and just got back into it recently. went back to natures way - which is now called holland and barrett - and got my usual tub of whey protein for about twenty quid. went back a fortnight later and it was gone up to 40 quid. wasn't paying that. went online and got 4 tubs of maximuscle promax 1100 gramme @ 30 euro a tub. i wasn't aware of all the other stuff out there but i didn't think that 30 quid was THAT bad. will shop around based on what i've read here next time out though.

Why Down with Maximuscle?

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