Why Down with Maximuscle?

magic_murph

Lads & Lassies,
Just reading a number of posts on here and noted a lot of post downing the goodness of maximuscle?

I don't take any protein supplements but have a general interest in their benefits etc.

If Maximuscle is of no use, why & which is the preferred brand. Is there really that much of a difference between the various brands out there?

Mr. Loverman

They're as good as most other brands; they're just more expensive.

Canis Lupus

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

They're as good as most other brands; they're just more expensive.

You'd want a bank loan to use it long term.

William_Hicley

I have actually wondered the same thing myself but never asked. Can anybody reccomend an alternative so? :pac:

Jarren

YEAP

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/

http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/

SpookyBastard

I think the main issue is that whilst their stuff is as good as anyone's they are considerably more expensive. This may partly be down to the amount of money they spend on advertising and sponsorship driving up the prices.

Most products are basically around the same price... stick Maximuscle on the tub and there's a 20% markup :rolleyes:

Myprotein is an good alternative as you can make your own version of cyclone and stuff. Then again, you could just go for a good whey or mass powder (depending on your needs) and leave out all the extra stuff they put into maximuscle shakes... it's been argued that a lot of it is purely marketing fluff and of little actual benefit. In most cases you can usually mix a shake yourself using more basic products that has most of what you want at a fraction of the cost.

soc$

Just an aside but if you're subject to doping requirements I was told to steer clear of anything produced in the US as a high percentage of protein powders are mixed in machines that are also used for anabolics and so they would be illegal.

I find USN to be good -

Canis Lupus

soc$ wrote: »

Just an aside but if you're subject to doping requirements I was told to steer clear of anything produced in the US as a high percentage of protein powders are mixed in machines that are also used for anabolics and so they would be illegal.

You have any links to back this up?

Transform

agreed and bump for myprotein

leave the maximuscle for the guys that are getting their mums to buy it for them in a health food shop or pharmacy

SouthTippBass

Ok, I'l try Myprotein next time I'm out. Anything else ye would recommend from them while I'm ordering that, muti-vitimins or anything?

Transform

fish oils and glutamine

JimmyR

Transform wrote: »

fish oils and glutamine

Why Glutamine? What benefits is there in taking it for
- a beginner?
- An advanced trainee?

Transform

I just find it good for recovery - 10g in water in the morning and at night works well for me.

Keep the rest of the diet in track as supplements are a waste of money if your diet is muck

ilovelamp2000

I used MyProtein for a longtime for Protein but got caught short on it a few weeks back. Intead I bought some Nutrition X Pro X Elite and I'm liking it a lot so I'm going to stick with it.

Hanley

soc$ wrote: »

Just an aside but if you're subject to doping requirements I was told to steer clear of anything produced in the US as a high percentage of protein powders are mixed in machines that are also used for anabolics and so they would be illegal.

I find USN to be good -

Think about what you're saying for a second...

Armedocr

soc$ wrote: »

Just an aside but if you're subject to doping requirements I was told to steer clear of anything produced in the US as a high percentage of protein powders are mixed in machines that are also used for anabolics and so they would be illegal.

I find USN to be good -

Seriously? You believe that the machine used to make a chocolate flavored protein etc is the same machine that is used to make anabolics.......Seriously?

Barry.Oglesby

Maximuscle is grand. My attitude to whey/creatine etc. is once the qulaity is high, get the one that you enjoy drinking the most as life is too short to drink anything manky.

There have been some reports of tainted supplements, but these have been by and large free sample tubs apparently. You can see why maybe someone would maybe put anabolics in samples. I think probably what soc$ is referring to is the presence of other controlled substances in supps from the states. The likes of ephedrine for example.

seven-iron

maximuslce is good. im on a stack of cyclone and promax and im noticing the difference after 5 days.

Noffles

I get stronger but bloated and fat(ter) looking on Cyclone and found Maximuscle is the "best" for price rather than product... they're all very much the same really.

Doug Cartel

seven-iron wrote: »

maximuslce is good. im on a stack of cyclone and promax and im noticing the difference after 5 days.

Ever heard of the placebo effect?

soc$

Armedocr wrote: »

Seriously? You believe that the machine used to make a chocolate flavored protein etc is the same machine that is used to make anabolics.......Seriously?

Ah jesus lads, why is there always an air of aggression in some posts when people read something they might not necessarily agree with?

I'm only recounting anecdotal evidence - my personal experience from discussions with the Lenister team nutritionist (from last season) and conversations with sports council anti-doping officers. We were always advised to keep a small sample of each supplement until after each clean test just in case - so yes, based on this I believe there must be some risk and any athlete who is on the anti-doping scheme would be an idiot not to consider it the possibility of cross contamination -

soc$

Canis Lupus wrote: »

You have any links to back this up?

http://www.tri247.com/article_3744.html

The research, which was funded by Lucozade Sport and conducted by HFL Sport Science - an independent laboratory that tests supplements for substances prohibited by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) – discovered that 10.5% of 152 supplements tested were found to be contaminated with steroids and/or stimulants.

http://www.informed-choice.org/files/Anti-DopingBackgrounder.pdf

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) funded research at the drug
surveillance lab in Cologne, Germany, in 2001 to independently analyze
a number of supplements. Of the 634 products tested, 94 (15 percent)
contained steroids or related compounds which were not declared on
the label. Sixteen percent of the positive supplements showed
concentrations of steroids at concentrations of 10 micrograms per gram
(10ng/g) or higher – considerable greater than that required to give a
positive test at the recommended daily intake.
To put this in perspective, 10ng/g is a tiny concentration. In a liquid, it is
equivalent to half a teaspoon of the substance dissolved in an Olympicsized
swimming pool.

Wada themselves advise caution
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Anti-Doping-Community/Athletes-/QA-on-Dietary-Supplement/

Can an athlete test positive from using dietary/nutritional supplements?

Extreme caution is recommended regarding supplement use.

The use of dietary supplements by athletes is a concern because in many countries the manufacturing and labeling of supplements may not follow strict rules, which may lead to a supplement containing an undeclared substance that is prohibited under anti-doping regulations. A significant number of positive tests have been attributed to the misuse of supplements and taking a poorly labeled dietary supplement is not an adequate defense in a doping hearing.

metamorphosis

USN chocolate cream, whey mixed into porridge ftw (+ melted dark chocolate and peanut butter melted in too). Yum.

Hanley

Research funded by lucozade found competitor products to be bad? Stop the presses.

"considerable greater than that required to give a positive test at the recommended daily intake." - what does that mean....? Are they telling your there's a recomended amount of drugs to take? Also, just because it's not listed on the label doesn't mean it'll cause you to fail a drug test.

As for the last link.... do you really expect an athlete to come out and say "crap... you got me"? Of course not. They're gonna blame it on everything and anything else.

soc$

Hanley wrote: »

Research funded by lucozade found competitor products to be bad? Stop the presses.

"considerable greater than that required to give a positive test at the recommended daily intake." - what does that mean....? Are they telling your there's a recomended amount of drugs to take? Also, just because it's not listed on the label doesn't mean it'll cause you to fail a drug test.

As for the last link.... do you really expect an athlete to come out and say "crap... you got me"? Of course not. They're gonna blame it on everything and anything else.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one - personally if I was still subject to testing I'd err on the side of caution -

BigDuffman

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Ever heard of the placebo effect?

Its comments like this that annoy me....yeah its ONLY Maximuscle that gives a placebo effect. Could your same argument not be applied to every single sports nutrition product?????! Reply to which is usually "Of course not! as other product don't rely on marketing to sell their brand".....Riiiiiight, good argument.

I find Maximuscle products (I personally use cyclone + thermobol) to be fantastic. Yeah some products are going to be pricier than others..but theres a messed up mentality involving a race to the bottom regarding price in sport nutrition circles, which is to the detrement of all involved.

"Look at you with your fancy Optimum Nutrition Platinum Hydro whey,I bought this skip load of low end protein for a €5r, it doesn't even have any labels how hardcore am I?"

Yeah sure you can talk about price point and you'd be right, premium level brands are more expensive. People have their opinions ie. BMWs are poncey cars but Audis are subtle class.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and product has different effects on different people.

I'm gonna pay a few extra reddies for Cyclone rather than stack some unknown cheap muck and feel hardcore. Same way whilst I'm sure the aldi pair of trainers are top quality I'm still going to stick my asics gels.

Hanley

soc$ wrote: »

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one - personally if I was still subject to testing I'd err on the side of caution -

You do realise I've been tested quite regularly over the past 3-4 years right?

Hanley

BigDuffman wrote: »

Its comments like this that annoy me....yeah its ONLY Maximuscle that gives a placebo effect. Could your same argument not be applied to every single sports nutrition product?????! Reply to which is usually "Of course not! as other product don't rely on marketing to sell their brand".....Riiiiiight, good argument.

No... it wasn't said that X was taken and no effect was noticed, but Y (maximuslce) WAS taken and an effect was noticed. The effect could very well be because they were expecting an effect.

And the exact same could have happened if product X was used instead. BUt it wasn't. It was maximuscle.

I find Maximuscle products (I personally use cyclone + thermobol) to be fantastic. Yeah some products are going to be pricier than others..but theres a messed up mentality involving a race to the bottom regarding price in sport nutrition circles, which is to the detrement of all involved.

"Look at you with your fancy Optimum Nutrition Platinum Hydro whey,I bought this skip load of low end protein for a €5r, it doesn't even have any labels how hardcore am I?"

You're a marketers dream.

I'm gonna pay a few extra reddies for Cyclone rather than stack some unknown cheap muck and feel hardcore. Same way whilst I'm sure the aldi pair of trainers are top quality I'm still going to stick my asics gels.

Comparison fail. Asics ARE better quality. Maximuscle is not.

soc$

Hanley wrote: »

You do realise I've been tested quite regularly over the past 3-4 years right?

Nope, didn't realise that - but honestly it wouldn't make any difference to me (I'm not trying to be a smart arse) - having some comfort factor with each test was always enough to make me paranoid.

BigDuffman

Hanley wrote: »

No... it wasn't said that X was taken and no effect was noticed, but Y (maximuslce) WAS taken and an effect was noticed. The effect could very well be because they were expecting an effect.

And the exact same could have happened if product X was used instead. BUt it wasn't. It was maximuscle.


You're a marketers dream.


Comparison fail. Asics ARE better quality. Maximuscle is not.

I'm not arguing over the science behind placebo effect. Which is the standard for testing effectivness of any product including MM. I'm arguing over your black and white Maximuscle = Fail End of. Mentality.

"A marketers dream" for taking Maximuscle? Based on that sweeping generalization of someone you've never met and at the risk of a pissing contest. I could call you a closed minded elitest.

PeakOutput

BigDuffman wrote: »

I'm not arguing over the science behind placebo effect. Which is the standard for testing effectivness of any product including MM. I'm arguing over your black and white Maximuscle = Fail End of. Mentality.

"A marketers dream" for taking Maximuscle? Based on that sweeping generalization of someone you've never met and at the risk of a pissing contest. I could call you a closed minded elitest.

the FACTS are that maximuscle's products are fundamentally no different to any other manufacturers product.

the first difference is they spend alot of money on marketing to make people believe they are worth the extra cash

and the second difference is that they cost a good bit more

there are a couple of acceptable reasons for spending the extra money

1. you like the taste of maximuscle products only for some reason
2. they sell it locally and you are rich enough to not care about paying the extra

any other reason is just ignorance

drdeadlift

BigDuffman wrote: »

I'm not arguing over the science behind placebo effect. Which is the standard for testing effectivness of any product including MM. I'm arguing over your black and white Maximuscle = Fail End of. Mentality.

"A marketers dream" for taking Maximuscle? Based on that sweeping generalization of someone you've never met and at the risk of a pissing contest. I could call you a closed minded elitest.

Maximuscle is a rip off.For the same cost you can get two and a half times more protein for your dollar with any other leading us brand.
I guarantee 70 odd % off people buying maxi-muscle are first time buyers.
This isnt even worth arguing over.

seven-iron

Personally, I find Maximuslce whey (excuse pun) easier to digest. Also, I dont spend my day walking around like a bloated and stuffed farm animal.

Just because you experts buy industrial size tubs from a company we've never heard of that costs less than a newspaper doesn't mean our stacks are inferior.

My point is, I'm not competing with you lot and thereby trying to prove that what I take is the 'best', I'm only trying to improve myself.

If I find maximuslce helps me, so be it. There is no need for the closed mindedness 'I know all' mentality.

Hanley

OMG people stop calling it "stacks".

SpookyBastard

seven-iron wrote: »

Also, I dont spend my day walking around like a bloated and stuffed farm animal.

Just because you experts buy industrial size tubs from a company we've never heard of that costs less than a newspaper doesn't mean our stacks are inferior

Here's the thing. I'm not buying stuff in industrial sized tubs with white labels on them. I use basic ON stuff myself. I prefer the taste compared to a few of the other brands I have tasted (inc. MM but that's not really relevant).
Just because it's not MM does not mean it's bad. Maybe you found another powder bloaty but that's far from the case with most products out there.

Now, most people would not regard ON as a budget brand and you almost certainly have heard of them and yet the cost of MM is still significantly higher. I'm sure there are cheaper ways for me to get basically the same stuff that I'm currently getting (I mix a couple of ON sups together) but either way you look at it I am still getting a top-shelf, well respected, well known brand and the money saved over buying MM pays for a couple of months of supplements.

I'm not in the black/white MM=Fail camp, however after careful consideration of the options out there you can get just as good for less without having to buy it in giant unmarked tubs (if that doesn't appeal to you)
The anti-budget argument is a kin to suggesting that everything that isn't an ipod is a $5 placticy knock-off made in a dodgy factory in Korea... it's just not the case.

seven-iron

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24


he doesnt have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

BigDuffman

I've to agree with Spooky here . I've tried the rest through-out the years and tend to stick to ON + MM. As I find that this is what works for me (5lb Caramel Toffee Fudge gold std. FTW!).

Now that ON are on the rise in Ireland&UK I'm sure that eventually they too will put money into sponsorship and advertising and as a result will the same stigma be attached to MM.

Hanley

seven-iron wrote: »

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

Where'd you find it for €26?

I just had a look at irish-lifting.com... Promax is €40. ON is €46. It's more expensive...

No.. wait... you get 908g of Promax for that price and 2,206g of ON for the price...

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24


he doesnt have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

Are you seriously trying to say the fact he uses MM means it's good?? No one's arguing about the quality. It's about the cost. You get the same product at a ridiculously inflated price.

And if you think that guy looks like that cos of MM, or people who use MM could potentially look like him, I've a nice pin here to pop your bubble with.

Hanley

Hanley wrote: »

OMG people stop calling it "stacks".

Seriously people.

seven-iron

you get 908g of Promax for that price and 2,206g of ON for the price...

Firstly, have you evidence for this? You cant just bandy statistics about.

And if you think that guy looks like that cos of MM, or people who use MM could potentially look like him, I've a nice pin here to pop your bubble with.

Hanley

seven-iron wrote: »

Firstly, have you evidence for this? You cant just bandy statistics about.

PLEASE tell me that's a joke and I missed the humour.

Doug Cartel

BigDuffman wrote: »

Its comments like this that annoy me....yeah its ONLY Maximuscle that gives a placebo effect. Could your same argument not be applied to every single sports nutrition product?????! Reply to which is usually "Of course not! as other product don't rely on marketing to sell their brand".....Riiiiiight, good argument.

Where in satan's glorious name did I say that only Maximuscle gives a placebo effect?

If anyone came on here with some personal anecdote about ANY product's effectiveness, stating that they were noticing a difference after only five days, I would put it down to a placebo/wishful thinking. Especially when they don't quote any numbers or other objective measures.

dartstothesea

I lolled. (Hanley).

SpookyBastard

seven-iron wrote: »

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24


he doesn't have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

Hold on there. That price comparison is interesting. The store I buy my ON from (it has shops as well as an online store and isn't a discount warehouse type place if you get me) charges €25 for a 2lb tub of 100% Whey so thats practically the same price as wherever you saw Promax for that little. If you were to have a look at most of the stores I think you'd see a noticeable difference in price.

Edit: Having had a quick look at the normal online stores I've seen Promax €34.95, €30, €34.99 (in 3 places). Now we also know that the retail outlets usually have a markup (anything from 10 - 20% from my experience) but if we assume the markup is on all brands then it doesn't really effect the result.

The price on the ON website is oddly high but in most stores that actually stock a 2lb tub (same size as the Promax) the price is around the €25 mark. Look at the price for Promax on the MM website... €39.99 ( http://www.maximuscle.ie/promax) so maybe the brands store's are just more expensive.

Also, even if you can get ordinary Promax for the same price roughly since you have a place that does it for €25. This is only one of the MM products and also, one of their cheapest.

Ignoring the bias in the last part of your post, ( choosing people who are 'fans' of MM but instead mentioning people who are 'paid' by ON ) linking to a guy who's a fan of a particular brand (great guy that Sam Bond is and all) proves nothing. He's working hard and feeding himself. The argument is not the 'fan boy' thing you seem to think it is. I can provide a list of links where ON is cheaper than MM and ON is far from the cheapest. 1 example of where 1 product is unusually cheap and the other unusually high doesn't make MM cheaper for the general supplement buying public.

I'm also not just an ON fan boy instead of MM. As i said I prefer the taste but if ON were to start pilling money into marketing and up their price to MM levels I'd be going looking for another top-shelf brand and a less silly price-point.

seven-iron

Yes, I take your point Spooky I should not have inculded an anecdote in my argument.

The argument is not the 'fan boy' thing you seem to think it is. I can provide a list of links where ON is cheaper than MM and ON is far from the cheapest. 1 example of where 1 product is unusually cheap and the other unusually high doesn't make MM cheaper for the general supplement buying public.

Now you are assuming that the general supplement buying public arent economically rationale. Which judging by this forum, with all the armchair critics, they are not!

dartstothesea

It seems crazy to me that people would buy their whey in 2lb tubs for €25 or whatever. How long does 2lb last people here? At that price it'd cost you like €250 to get not even 10kg of whey. Mental. I don't mean to be an inverted snob about it or anything but 10kg from bulkpowders for like 70pounds is surely the way to go. Sorry for mixing all my units...

Edit: I guess this is just if like me you don't mind unflavoured stuff.

SpookyBastard

Actually, just to add one other thing. Since we're primarily talking about cost think about how paying €60 euro a month for Promax (assuming you can find it for a bargain of €30 and not the €39.99 on MM's own online store) versus €45 a month for 100% Whey (again, I'm using ON as an example caus its what I use not because it's the cheapest brand) thats €15 a month or €180 a year. €180 buys 4 tubs of 100% whey... that ONE THIRD of a year FREE :pac:

SpookyBastard

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes, I take your point Spooky I should not have inculded an anecdote in my argument.

Now you are assuming that the general supplement buying public arent economically rationale. Which judging by this forum, with all the armchair critics, they are not!

Far from it. I am assuming that if the general supplement buying public were to shop around and check several retail outlets and 5 irish online stores (forget looking at places in the UK) they will see Promax for around 30-35 and ON Whey for 30% less. Also, we're not even talking about being super budget conscious here so economic rationality doesn't come in to it.

Hanley

At the end of the day.... it's all ****.








This post has come to you live from the toilet.

BigDuffman

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Where in satan's glorious name did I say that only Maximuscle gives a placebo effect?

If anyone came on here with some personal anecdote about ANY product's effectiveness, stating that they were noticing a difference after only five days, I would put it down to a placebo/wishful thinking. Especially when they don't quote any numbers or other objective measures.

Fair point Doug, appologies. I took that as a standard sweeping "MM=Fail" comment. I agree that 5-Day anecdote sounds like a spam email type testimonial.

seven-iron

Some interesting points. However, I stand by my earlier post. In times gone by I would only take one supplement. Now my stack consists of two, promax and cyclone. After 5 days I feel great. Today I rested, so my muscles recover and grow a bit.