Why Down with Maximuscle?

drdeadlift · 28-09-2010 12:25PM

BigDuffman wrote: »

I'm not arguing over the science behind placebo effect. Which is the standard for testing effectivness of any product including MM. I'm arguing over your black and white Maximuscle = Fail End of. Mentality.

"A marketers dream" for taking Maximuscle? Based on that sweeping generalization of someone you've never met and at the risk of a pissing contest. I could call you a closed minded elitest.

Maximuscle is a rip off.For the same cost you can get two and a half times more protein for your dollar with any other leading us brand.
I guarantee 70 odd % off people buying maxi-muscle are first time buyers.
This isnt even worth arguing over.

seven-iron · 28-09-2010 12:55PM

Personally, I find Maximuslce whey (excuse pun) easier to digest. Also, I dont spend my day walking around like a bloated and stuffed farm animal.

Just because you experts buy industrial size tubs from a company we've never heard of that costs less than a newspaper doesn't mean our stacks are inferior.

My point is, I'm not competing with you lot and thereby trying to prove that what I take is the 'best', I'm only trying to improve myself.

If I find maximuslce helps me, so be it. There is no need for the closed mindedness 'I know all' mentality.

Hanley · 28-09-2010 12:57PM

OMG people stop calling it "stacks".

SpookyBastard · 28-09-2010 01:10PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Also, I dont spend my day walking around like a bloated and stuffed farm animal.

Just because you experts buy industrial size tubs from a company we've never heard of that costs less than a newspaper doesn't mean our stacks are inferior

Here's the thing. I'm not buying stuff in industrial sized tubs with white labels on them. I use basic ON stuff myself. I prefer the taste compared to a few of the other brands I have tasted (inc. MM but that's not really relevant).
Just because it's not MM does not mean it's bad. Maybe you found another powder bloaty but that's far from the case with most products out there.

Now, most people would not regard ON as a budget brand and you almost certainly have heard of them and yet the cost of MM is still significantly higher. I'm sure there are cheaper ways for me to get basically the same stuff that I'm currently getting (I mix a couple of ON sups together) but either way you look at it I am still getting a top-shelf, well respected, well known brand and the money saved over buying MM pays for a couple of months of supplements.

I'm not in the black/white MM=Fail camp, however after careful consideration of the options out there you can get just as good for less without having to buy it in giant unmarked tubs (if that doesn't appeal to you)
The anti-budget argument is a kin to suggesting that everything that isn't an ipod is a $5 placticy knock-off made in a dodgy factory in Korea... it's just not the case.

seven-iron · 28-09-2010 01:34PM

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24

he doesnt have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

BigDuffman · 28-09-2010 01:37PM

I've to agree with Spooky here . I've tried the rest through-out the years and tend to stick to ON + MM. As I find that this is what works for me (5lb Caramel Toffee Fudge gold std. FTW!).

Now that ON are on the rise in Ireland&UK I'm sure that eventually they too will put money into sponsorship and advertising and as a result will the same stigma be attached to MM.

Hanley · 28-09-2010 01:43PM

seven-iron wrote: »

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

Where'd you find it for €26?

I just had a look at irish-lifting.com... Promax is €40. ON is €46. It's more expensive...

No.. wait... you get 908g of Promax for that price and 2,206g of ON for the price...

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24

he doesnt have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

Are you seriously trying to say the fact he uses MM means it's good?? No one's arguing about the quality. It's about the cost. You get the same product at a ridiculously inflated price.

And if you think that guy looks like that cos of MM, or people who use MM could potentially look like him, I've a nice pin here to pop your bubble with.

Hanley · 28-09-2010 01:45PM

Hanley wrote: »

OMG people stop calling it "stacks".

Seriously people.

seven-iron · 28-09-2010 01:49PM

you get 908g of Promax for that price and 2,206g of ON for the price...

Firstly, have you evidence for this? You cant just bandy statistics about.

And if you think that guy looks like that cos of MM, or people who use MM could potentially look like him, I've a nice pin here to pop your bubble with.

Hanley · 28-09-2010 01:51PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Firstly, have you evidence for this? You cant just bandy statistics about.

PLEASE tell me that's a joke and I missed the humour.

Doug Cartel · 28-09-2010 01:52PM

BigDuffman wrote: »

Its comments like this that annoy me....yeah its ONLY Maximuscle that gives a placebo effect. Could your same argument not be applied to every single sports nutrition product?????! Reply to which is usually "Of course not! as other product don't rely on marketing to sell their brand".....Riiiiiight, good argument.

Where in satan's glorious name did I say that only Maximuscle gives a placebo effect?

If anyone came on here with some personal anecdote about ANY product's effectiveness, stating that they were noticing a difference after only five days, I would put it down to a placebo/wishful thinking. Especially when they don't quote any numbers or other objective measures.

dartstothesea · 28-09-2010 01:54PM

I lolled. (Hanley).

SpookyBastard · 28-09-2010 01:56PM

seven-iron wrote: »

OK point taken Spooky, I agree I probably went overboard with that last generalisation.

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar. For example, Jermaine Jenas and Ugo Monye are fans of Maximuscle. Where as ON, have to pay r. kearney, to endorse their stacks. Also look at this guy who is a long time user of MM... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TSa0denVQ&p=36AF36CDD9DC34FB&playnext=1&index=24

he doesn't have many complaints. Do you see where I am coming from Spooky?

Hold on there. That price comparison is interesting. The store I buy my ON from (it has shops as well as an online store and isn't a discount warehouse type place if you get me) charges €25 for a 2lb tub of 100% Whey so thats practically the same price as wherever you saw Promax for that little. If you were to have a look at most of the stores I think you'd see a noticeable difference in price.

Edit: Having had a quick look at the normal online stores I've seen Promax €34.95, €30, €34.99 (in 3 places). Now we also know that the retail outlets usually have a markup (anything from 10 - 20% from my experience) but if we assume the markup is on all brands then it doesn't really effect the result.

The price on the ON website is oddly high but in most stores that actually stock a 2lb tub (same size as the Promax) the price is around the €25 mark. Look at the price for Promax on the MM website... €39.99 ( http://www.maximuscle.ie/promax) so maybe the brands store's are just more expensive.

Also, even if you can get ordinary Promax for the same price roughly since you have a place that does it for €25. This is only one of the MM products and also, one of their cheapest.

Ignoring the bias in the last part of your post, ( choosing people who are 'fans' of MM but instead mentioning people who are 'paid' by ON ) linking to a guy who's a fan of a particular brand (great guy that Sam Bond is and all) proves nothing. He's working hard and feeding himself. The argument is not the 'fan boy' thing you seem to think it is. I can provide a list of links where ON is cheaper than MM and ON is far from the cheapest. 1 example of where 1 product is unusually cheap and the other unusually high doesn't make MM cheaper for the general supplement buying public.

I'm also not just an ON fan boy instead of MM. As i said I prefer the taste but if ON were to start pilling money into marketing and up their price to MM levels I'd be going looking for another top-shelf brand and a less silly price-point.

seven-iron · 28-09-2010 02:02PM

Yes, I take your point Spooky I should not have inculded an anecdote in my argument.

The argument is not the 'fan boy' thing you seem to think it is. I can provide a list of links where ON is cheaper than MM and ON is far from the cheapest. 1 example of where 1 product is unusually cheap and the other unusually high doesn't make MM cheaper for the general supplement buying public.

Now you are assuming that the general supplement buying public arent economically rationale. Which judging by this forum, with all the armchair critics, they are not!

dartstothesea · 28-09-2010 02:03PM

It seems crazy to me that people would buy their whey in 2lb tubs for €25 or whatever. How long does 2lb last people here? At that price it'd cost you like €250 to get not even 10kg of whey. Mental. I don't mean to be an inverted snob about it or anything but 10kg from bulkpowders for like 70pounds is surely the way to go. Sorry for mixing all my units...

Edit: I guess this is just if like me you don't mind unflavoured stuff.

SpookyBastard · 28-09-2010 02:07PM

Actually, just to add one other thing. Since we're primarily talking about cost think about how paying €60 euro a month for Promax (assuming you can find it for a bargain of €30 and not the €39.99 on MM's own online store) versus €45 a month for 100% Whey (again, I'm using ON as an example caus its what I use not because it's the cheapest brand) thats €15 a month or €180 a year. €180 buys 4 tubs of 100% whey... that ONE THIRD of a year FREE :pac:

SpookyBastard · 28-09-2010 02:10PM

seven-iron wrote: »

Yes, I take your point Spooky I should not have inculded an anecdote in my argument.

Now you are assuming that the general supplement buying public arent economically rationale. Which judging by this forum, with all the armchair critics, they are not!

Far from it. I am assuming that if the general supplement buying public were to shop around and check several retail outlets and 5 irish online stores (forget looking at places in the UK) they will see Promax for around 30-35 and ON Whey for 30% less. Also, we're not even talking about being super budget conscious here so economic rationality doesn't come in to it.

Hanley · 28-09-2010 02:12PM

At the end of the day.... it's all ****.

This post has come to you live from the toilet.

BigDuffman · 28-09-2010 02:29PM

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Where in satan's glorious name did I say that only Maximuscle gives a placebo effect?

If anyone came on here with some personal anecdote about ANY product's effectiveness, stating that they were noticing a difference after only five days, I would put it down to a placebo/wishful thinking. Especially when they don't quote any numbers or other objective measures.

Fair point Doug, appologies. I took that as a standard sweeping "MM=Fail" comment. I agree that 5-Day anecdote sounds like a spam email type testimonial.

seven-iron · 28-09-2010 07:49PM

Some interesting points. However, I stand by my earlier post. In times gone by I would only take one supplement. Now my stack consists of two, promax and cyclone. After 5 days I feel great. Today I rested, so my muscles recover and grow a bit.

ferike1 · 28-09-2010 09:28PM

Buy some beef and eggs instead. I feel great everyday and my muscles grow all the time.

Esse85 · 28-09-2010 10:06PM

This has to be one of the most retarded threads I've read on here, no doubt those claiming they've made great gains from MM have gone from benching 35kg to 40kg overnight.

I guess if I could add 5kg to my bench over night then id be raving too

itsallaboutheL · 28-09-2010 11:08PM

seven-iron wrote: »

I think it boils down to non-MM users who are long time users of say ON and they take issue with MM being of a higher profile even though they are largely similiar.

I have zero brand loyalty (except to burger king), i bought maximuscle before back when i was 18 and slightly more of a fucking tool than i am now.

I bought because some lad on my rugby team told me to, it came in the shiniest box, and cost the most and therefore had to be brilliant.

I wised up after a week, (even being that much of a tool), and realised i was paying waaay over the odds for some maketing exec to drive around in a flash car while i drank yellow **** and benched 4kg.

People need to eat more. And lift more.

Also i'm firmly of the belief that you should walk away from anything with more than one colour on the box. (it could be an std don'tcha know)

Inspector Coptoor · 28-09-2010 11:08PM

whey is whey.
can be bought cheap on its own

creatine is creatine
can also be bought cheap on its own

oh wait a minute, what if i put whey and creatine and caffeine and taurine and arginine and leucine and Nitrous Oxide all in the same tub and call it, eh, eh "Maxi Muscle Cyclone" and put it in a fancy tub with hot chicks and pictures of Josh lewsy endorsing it and charge people loads for very little of it?

how would that work out? all the way to the bank.

look, i think everyone here has tried something expensive from a pharmacy at one stage or another, paid through the nose for it and learned their lesson and not done it again.

fool me once, shame on you etc.

Ive tried ON, Reflex, phd, bsn, nutrtion x, my protein, maximuscle, CNP (paid 50 euro for 908g of this Dorian yates protein once), the list goes on.

I dont think one is better than the other but I do think many are better value than others out there.

do some research, mind the pennies if you want to
if you dont care about the price, knock yourself out.

just dont come on here saying maximuscle is the most awesome of them all coz its the dearest.

I dont buy the cheapest protein, I buy protein with a low amount of carbs, high amount of protein, nice flavour and reasonable cost.

simples

Armedocr · 28-09-2010 11:15PM

Great F'in thread. Thankfully I'm one of the lads who buys their supplements in dodgy plastic bags. Not a problem so far

Feck if it's a fancy tub you want buy the myprotein elite range, even has added digestive enzymes for the sensitive types.

SpookyBastard · 28-09-2010 11:25PM

Maybe companies could start including a free toy in every tub! Now that'd be something

Esse85 · 28-09-2010 11:35PM

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Maybe companies could start including a free toy in every tub! Now that'd be something

Its called a scoop!

Mellor · 29-09-2010 05:54AM

soc$ wrote: »

I'm only recounting anecdotal evidence - my personal experience from discussions with the Lenister team nutritionist (from last season) and conversations with sports council anti-doping officers. We were always advised to keep a small sample of each supplement until after each clean test just in case - so yes, based on this I believe there must be some risk and any athlete who is on the anti-doping scheme would be an idiot not to consider it the possibility of cross contamination -

That's probably because the guys advising you were told to do the same.

Regardless, what happens if you failed a test. you have your sample, and its found to be in there. You still not allowed to complete.

And of all the guys you know talking supps, how many have failed a test. Surely between them all there would be a big sample size across a wide range of brands.

Oh, and not all banned subtances are steroids. Some products could contain WADA lists items, on purpose.

seven-iron wrote: »

However, the MM 'cost' argument doesnt stack up either. For instance, Promax Vanilla at €25.95 is a lot cheaper than the €31.95 Gold standard whey qoued on ON website. Hold on... did I just say MM is cheaper, looks like it. Ultimately though that is not the issue in this debate.

That was always the issue.
Tubs often look the same size in photos. Did you check the numbers on the tub before you got excited.

since everyone here is in full disclosure mode.
I normally take ON Gold. I pay $75 for a 2.2kg tub.
I ran out this week, won't get to the same shop till saturday plus i'm heading away for the weekend, so I bought a tub near work, something by BSc, mid range. $44 for 2 lb :eek:

I am doing this purely as a fix, its easier to travel with that tub.
This is similar price range to MM, and BSN and all these other designer brands. I have no idea why people would use these as their regular source of whey.

Oh, and em, stack, gains, supierior stack. Stack-tastic FTW

soc$ · 29-09-2010 08:22AM

Mellor wrote: »

That's probably because the guys advising you were told to do the same.

Regardless, what happens if you failed a test. you have your sample, and its found to be in there. You still not allowed to complete.

And of all the guys you know talking supps, how many have failed a test. Surely between them all there would be a big sample size across a wide range of brands.

I agree with what you say 100% but after Alain Baxter got done in 2002 olympics I was always very paranoid about testing so it made me feel better -

Oh, and not all banned subtances are steroids. Some products could contain WADA lists items, on purpose.

Yea I know that for sure - not to mention over the counter mediacations - I was a regular visitor of the eirpharm site to check medications before taking them (off-topic I know, sorry)

TommyKnocker · 29-09-2010 08:50AM

SpookyBastard wrote: »

Maybe companies could start including a free toy in every tub! Now that'd be something

Excellent idea

:D

Instead of a "Happy Meal" you could call it a Happy Stack

:D:D

M

Why Down with Maximuscle?

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