Doctor removes the wrong kidney from kid

stovelid · 03-09-2010 01:29PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

What about my renally attentive one (punning with the fact that he wasn't anally retentive)

please thank me ...

A thanks would be inappropriate and, indeed, provide no incentive for future improvement.

Perhaps it's time for an intermediate thanks: like a not bad, but could do better signifier.

:pac:

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 01:30PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You've got to be kidneying me

Seriously now, if no-one liked mine you definately ain't getting thanked - that was truly dyalisisabolical

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 01:31PM

stovelid wrote: »

A thanks would be inappropriate and, indeed, provide no incentive for future improvement.

Perhaps it's time for an intermediate thanks: like a not bad, but could do better signifier.

:pac:

Kinda like a "****"??

gizmo · 03-09-2010 01:32PM

In before someone blames Harney or Cowen...

biko · 03-09-2010 01:36PM

This is why they often write onto the patients skin in marker pen.
Apparently not done here.

up for anything · 03-09-2010 01:39PM

landsleaving wrote: »

So should the surgeon though, I mean saying 'I couldn't say no' might be ok if you arent too sure how to work the till in a shop, but when someone asks you to take someones kidney out, and you aren't sure which one, have the balls to say you don't know what to do.

He did know what to do. The notes said left so he did a left. No blame attached to him.

Donkey Oaty · 03-09-2010 01:41PM

up for anything wrote: »

He did know what to do. The notes said left so he did a left. No blame attached to him.

Yes, but wouldn't he have immediately realised that the left one wasn't the one that had gone pear-shaped?

--Kaiser-- · 03-09-2010 01:46PM

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

Seriously now, if no-one liked mine you definately ain't getting thanked - that was truly dyalisisabolical

Ureter with me or against me on this one

_feedback_ · 03-09-2010 01:48PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Ureter with me or against me on this one

urea-ly are on top form with the puns today AH

drkpower · 03-09-2010 01:49PM

up for anything wrote: »

He did know what to do. The notes said left so he did a left. No blame attached to him.

:eek: Yes, best to rely on something written somewhere by someone else rather than making an independent clinical judgment on the basis of the evidence of his own very eyes.

seanin4711 · 03-09-2010 01:55PM

Hse review contracts only people who are attracted by them are the majority foreign that's grand but they cannot be properly vetted qualifications etc.
The major word here is accountability.
This guy should do time.
Majority of Irish surgeons seem to have moved abroad or are now "consultants"
Better cash that way guaranteed 150 bucks be it 5 mins or 15(usually the former)
Joke of a medical system.
Please people vote these ultimate Chancers out of office.
Think for yourselves not because your parents voted one way.
Break the mould.

irelandrover · 03-09-2010 01:57PM

drkpower wrote: »

:eek: Yes, best to rely on something written somewhere by someone else rather than making an independent clinical judgment on the basis of the evidence of his own very eyes.

He was told the left kindney and then double checked the paperwork which also said left kidney.
In my opinion 99% of the blame lies with the consultant. Maybe 1% with the surgeon.

Donkey Oaty · 03-09-2010 01:57PM

seanin4711 wrote: »

Hse review contracts only people who are attracted by them are the majority foreign that's grand but they cannot be properly vetted qualifications etc.

This guy graduated from Galway.

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 01:58PM

seanin4711 wrote: »

Hse review contracts only people who are attracted by them are the majority foreign that's grand but they cannot be properly vetted qualifications etc.
The major word here is accountability.
This guy should do time.
Majority of Irish surgeons seem to have moved abroad or are now "consultants"
Better cash that way guaranteed 150 bucks be it 5 mins or 15(usually the former)
Joke of a medical system.
Please people vote these ultimate Chancers out of office.
Think for yourselves not because your parents voted one way.
Break the mould.

What are you saying.
I do not follow.
It may be borderline racist.
I'm not quite sure though.
Is that why you type this way?
Please tell me.
I am confused.

_feedback_ · 03-09-2010 02:00PM

seanin4711 wrote: »

Hse review contracts only people who are attracted by them are the majority foreign that's grand but they cannot be properly vetted qualifications etc.
The major word here is accountability.
This guy should do time.
Majority of Irish surgeons seem to have moved abroad or are now "consultants"
Better cash that way guaranteed 150 bucks be it 5 mins or 15(usually the former)
Joke of a medical system.Please people vote these ultimate Chancers out of office.
Think for yourselves not because your parents voted one way.
Break the mould.

Joke of a post more like.

thesimpsons · 03-09-2010 02:01PM

irelandrover wrote: »

He was told the left kindney and then double checked the paperwork which also said left kidney.
In my opinion 99% of the blame lies with the consultant. Maybe 1% with the surgeon.

if you left a note for someone to photocopy a piece of paper and asked for a photocopy of Page 2, wouldn't you expect the copier person to query you if it turned out Page 2 was a blank !!!! A healthy kidney appears different from a diseased one - consultant was at fault but so too was the surgeon. They are both supposed to be highly educated people - he told me to do it just isn't good enough. its not human error - its gross incompetance. You've now got a kid on life long dialaysis waiting for a transplant which has its own potential problems.

03-09-2010 02:03PM

UpCork wrote: »

This is one thing I wondered. Surely when the surgeon was looking at the wrong kidney, he'd have known it looked healthy and should have queried it?

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Yes, but wouldn't he have immediately realised that the left one wasn't the one that had gone pear-shaped?

I'm guessing none of the people suggesting the operating surgeon was at fault are surgeons themselves? It's entirely possible for a failing kidney to look perfectly healthy. That's why there are diagnostic machines. They don't just take a look at a kidney and say "oh yeah, that's gone bad, have to take it out". Also, it's not like the surgeon could have just taken a look at the other one to compare it, that would require a much larger operation. There is no way the surgeon was at fault here

irelandrover · 03-09-2010 02:04PM

thesimpsons wrote: »

if you left a note for someone to photocopy a piece of paper and asked for a photocopy of Page 2, wouldn't you expect the copier person to query you if it turned out Page 2 was a blank !!!! A healthy kidney appears different from a diseased one - consultant was at fault but so too was the surgeon. They are both supposed to be highly educated people - he told me to do it just isn't good enough. its not human error - its gross incompetance. You've now got a kid on life long dialaysis waiting for a transplant which has its own potential problems.

Would a kidney that needed to be removed always look diseased?

Donkey Oaty · 03-09-2010 02:06PM

28064212 wrote: »

I'm guessing none of the people suggesting the operating surgeon was at fault are surgeons themselves? It's entirely possible for a failing kidney to look perfectly healthy. That's why there are diagnostic machines. They don't just take a look at a kidney and say "oh yeah, that's gone bad, have to take it out". Also, it's not like the surgeon could have just taken a look at the other one to compare it, that would require a much larger operation.

Thanks for clarifying this. If it's true - and I have no reason to doubt that it is - then surely the surgeon must be in the clear.

However, what are the allegations referred to here? (From RTE news)

Prof Corbally is facing 15 allegations of profession misconduct while his colleague Mr Paran is facing 12 allegations of profession misconduct.

landsleaving · 03-09-2010 02:06PM

28064212 wrote: »

I'm guessing none of the people suggesting the operating surgeon was at fault are surgeons themselves? It's entirely possible for a failing kidney to look perfectly healthy. That's why there are diagnostic machines. They don't just take a look at a kidney and say "oh yeah, that's gone bad, have to take it out". Also, it's not like the surgeon could have just taken a look at the other one to compare it, that would require a much larger operation. There is no way the surgeon was at fault here

Thanks for the info, that clears things up a bit for me. Looks like the blame is entirely on the consultant. And the education system that failed to teach him left from right.

thesimpsons · 03-09-2010 02:07PM

the surgeon himself said that the kidney he removed looked healthy and he was baffled. think he should have checked more than just the notes - he was uncomfortable performing the surgery in the first place, then he sees what appears like a healthy kidney for removal - definitely think he should have halted the surgery until he was 100% sure of what he was doing. FFS, its a kids life we are dealing with.

ejmaztec · 03-09-2010 02:08PM

The first rule of surgery club should be "Don't remove the wrong fuckin' bits, whatever you do".

drkpower · 03-09-2010 02:09PM

irelandrover wrote: »

He was told the left kindney and then double checked the paperwork which also said left kidney.
In my opinion 99% of the blame lies with the consultant. Maybe 1% with the surgeon.

Lol - your opinion is wrong!
He double checked against the handwritten note of the same consultant, rather than trusting his eyes & clinical judgment, or looking at the x-rays, or asking the parents, or asking the nursing staff, or checking a report of the x-rays.....

Every doctor makes their own independent decison; and live and die by it - the consultant is not blameless but in any percentage blame game, the operating surgeon, whose responsibility the operation is, wins.

Groinshot · 03-09-2010 02:09PM

Surely he's allowed one mistake? I feel sorry for him, he screwed up as do all of us, it just so happened that his gets publicised all over the media. it's horrible for the family to have to go through, but wasn't ANYONE else in the operating room aware that it was the wrong kidney?

landsleaving · 03-09-2010 02:10PM

ejmaztec wrote: »

The first rule of surgery club should be "Don't remove the wrong fuckin' bits, whatever you do".

The problem here is the first rule was not talking about surgery club.

Richard Noggin · 03-09-2010 02:11PM

God almighty. Are you kidn' me ?

drkpower · 03-09-2010 02:13PM

28064212 wrote: »

Also, it's not like the surgeon could have just taken a look at the other one to compare it, that would require a much larger operation. There is no way the surgeon was at fault here

Nonsense!
His suspicions were raised by seeing a healthy kidney; there are many other ways he could have sought to confirm or deny his suspicions (look at x-rays, look at x-ray reports, ask nursing staff, parents, check other parts of the chart); he simply read one doctor's handwritten note. Not good enough, by a long shot.

BostonB · 03-09-2010 02:13PM

I do something not even 1% as important as these guys, and I assume what I'm told is wrong, until I prove its correct. Blind faith in what someone else tells with no cross checks from a 2nd person, seems like a very poor process for doing something as important as surgery.

Banned Account · 03-09-2010 02:14PM

Poor kid will wake up every night, looking at the machine sitting at the end of the bed and scream

"Why, why are you taking the píss out of me !!!!"

stovelid · 03-09-2010 02:14PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5psNItY-f4

Doctor removes the wrong kidney from kid

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