Homework time for learners

zenno · 01-09-2010 04:50PM

the reason i failed the test then was that i didn't brake hard skid stop as an emergency stop. the tester in sgs said stop so i slowed down indicated and pulled over thats were he failed me. at this time i was told that the emergency stop was not part of the test in the republic of ireland which is true. if it had been then i would have breaked hard obviously. but as i said it is not done in the republic of ireland so i assumed he wanted me to stop and pull over. this guy was english which could be the reason he done it as they do the emergency stop in northern ireland and britain but this is not britain so he f**ked up and i would have passed he said only for that.

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:52PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

Wooooooh hold it.

You expect a 17 year old to buy a modern car costing more than say a 92 Fiesta which means the insurance will equally increase.

So buy a €2000 2002 Fiesta and pay higher insurance or buy a 1992 Fiesta for €200 and pay less insurance than you would on the 2002 Fiesta ?? Ill take the cheaper one thanks!!

I think that young drivers should drive older cars like late 80's early 90's 1.0L Fiestas,Corsa's,Nova's,Escorts,Charades ect...

Where you can learn to drive properly with ABS,Airbags or a TCS.
Then if they have a bump they will get hurt but not going fast enough to be seriously injured. Then they won't be so stupid to make the same mistake again.

I would recommend at least an 00 car. Older cars are just not safe enough. And learner drivers and more likely to crash. Would you rather have the extra
€1800 or your life. Im only going to be learning to drive soon too and I will have to do the same.

And you dont have to learn to drive at 17. If you cant afford it then wait!

zenno · 01-09-2010 04:54PM

djimi wrote: »

I take on board what you are saying, but how do you legistate for that? You cant bring in a law for learners who have x number of years experience and feel they are safe to drive, it just doesnt work like that. If someone is genuinely a good safe and confident driver then they should have no problem passing their test, and its not going to kill them to wait the couple of months it takes to get a test.

If you feel you are a safe driver then why have you not done your test by now?

theres another point you have made. just because you pass the test does not in any shape or form mean you are a good safe driver. i was almost in a crash because a licenced driver pulled right out in front of me in malahide last year as if he didn't see me comming and it was a nice clear dry day. luckily i had a feeling what he was going to do so all was ok.

but i have seen more and more licenced drivers not indicate on turns and basically are all over the road it's them that are a danger imo cause i have too much to lose by driving erratically like some of them

zenno · 01-09-2010 04:56PM

djimi wrote: »

I take on board what you are saying, but how do you legistate for that? You cant bring in a law for learners who have x number of years experience and feel they are safe to drive, it just doesnt work like that. If someone is genuinely a good safe and confident driver then they should have no problem passing their test, and its not going to kill them to wait the couple of months it takes to get a test.

If you feel you are a safe driver then why have you not done your test by now?

i have just purchased a second hand car a couple of weeks ago so i have put in for my test again. i wasn't driving for the last year because of financial difficulties.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:56PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

Wooooooh hold it.

You expect a 17 year old to buy a modern car costing more than say a 92 Fiesta which means the insurance will equally increase.

So buy a €2000 2002 Fiesta and pay higher insurance or buy a 1992 Fiesta for €200 and pay less insurance than you would on the 2002 Fiesta ?? Ill take the cheaper one thanks!!

I think that young drivers should drive older cars like late 80's early 90's 1.0L Fiestas,Corsa's,Nova's,Escorts,Charades ect...

Where you can learn to drive properly with ABS,Airbags or a TCS.
Then if they have a bump they will get hurt but not going fast enough to be seriously injured. Then they won't be so stupid to make the same mistake again.

Youll pay higher insurance on a 92 Fiesta than you will a 02 Fiesta. A lot of insurance companies wont even quote you if the car is over 10 years old.

RossDonegan · 01-09-2010 04:57PM

Tea 1000 wrote: »

This here is the problem. Mammy and Daddy, I want a new car for my 17th birthday. "OK son, here you go, taxed, insured and ready. Off you go now with your mates and have a good night out to celebrate".
How about this method - work your balls off to earn the price of your car and you might not be so quick to mangle it and everyone near it.
Pressure on parents? I put zero pressure on my parents when I was 17 with regards to the cost of cars, because it was simple. If I didn't have the money for one, I wasn't getting one. No pressure at all!

I think you took me up wrong what I mean is if say it cost on average €2.5k to get on the road they would have some hope but when you double that to €5k they will be asking parents for the money.

I agree about working one's balls off in order to afford a Car and therefore have more respect for it and not act the numpty.

But either way you will always have people who have bought there own car and diff it out at every opportunity.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:58PM

zenno wrote: »

theres another point you have made. just because you pass the test does not in any shape or form mean you are a good safe driver. i was almost in a crash because a licenced driver pulled right out in front of me in malahide last year as if he didn't see me comming and it was a nice clear dry day. luckily i had a feeling what he was going to do so all was ok.

but i have seen more and more licenced drivers not indicate on turns and basically are all over the road it's them that are a danger imo cause i have too much to lose by driving erratically like some of them

I agree, the driving test in this country is far too easy and in no way proves you are completely capable of driving a car, but at least someone who has passed their test has shown some degree of competency when it comes to driving. A learner has not shown the same, and as such it cannot be assumed that they are of the level required to be allowed to drive on the road.

The fact that there are fully licensed drivers who are morons is another discussion entirely...

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:59PM

zenno wrote: »

i have just purchased a second hand car a couple of weeks ago so i have put in for my test again. i wasn't driving for the last year because of financial difficulties.

Fair enough. If you are as capable a driver as you say you are then you should pass no bother, and best of luck to you, I hope you do

R.O.R · 01-09-2010 04:59PM

zenno wrote: »

no need to get angry with me. I failed the test but not everyone passes the first time now do they. i'm sure i'll pass it this time around.

Excellent.

You've been assesed as not being capable to drive, yet you still think you are a safe driver.

That is what's wrong with the state of driving in this country, and this attitude has been passed down generation to generation, because everyone has got away with it so far.

In my opinion, the insurance companies need to pull cover (except 3rd party) from drivers on learner permits driving unacompanied. The gardai need to back this up and stop people for driving without insurance, as well as unacompanied.

People would think twice about jumping in a car if they were facing a such a hefty penalty rather than the pathetic fines and 1 point.

zenno · 01-09-2010 05:02PM

djimi wrote: »

I agree, the driving test in this country is far too easy and in no way proves you are completely capable of driving a car, but at least someone who has passed their test has shown some degree of competency when it comes to driving. A learner has not shown the same, and as such it cannot be assumed that they are of the level required to be allowed to drive on the road.

The fact that there are fully licensed drivers who are morons is another discussion entirely...

I agree. well i am waiting to do the test again and am confident i will get it this time. I can't make them speed up my test date any faster so i will just have to wait. but again there are still alot of other things you can fail your test especially nerves. but i won't be having that problem but i know alot of people that have failed because of the nerves unfortunately.

if i fail it again then i will put in straight away again until i do pass it.

zenno · 01-09-2010 05:05PM

R.O.R wrote: »

Excellent.

You've been assesed as not being capable to drive, yet you still think you are a safe driver.

That is what's wrong with the state of driving in this country, and this attitude has been passed down generation to generation, because everyone has got away with it so far.

In my opinion, the insurance companies need to pull cover (except 3rd party) from drivers on learner permits driving unacompanied. The gardai need to back this up and stop people for driving without insurance, as well as unacompanied.

People would think twice about jumping in a car if they were facing a such a hefty penalty rather than the pathetic fines and 1 point.

you have obviously not read my above post regarding why i failed i was failed on something that is not part of the driving test in this country can you read ? post 63

djimi · 01-09-2010 05:10PM

zenno wrote: »

I agree. well i am waiting to do the test again and am confident i will get it this time. I can't make them speed up my test date any faster so i will just have to wait. but again there are still alot of other things you can fail your test especially nerves. but i won't be having that problem but i know alot of people that have failed because of the nerves unfortunately.

if i fail it again then i will put in straight away again until i do pass it.

Nerves is an unfortunate one alright; I know of a couple of good learners who fail because they bottle it on the day of the test.

zenno · 01-09-2010 05:13PM

R.O.R well at least i have done the test and have learned one or two things compared to some people on their 5/6/7 and so on provisionals that have never done a bloody test. just because i failed from the test drivers mistake doesn't make me into a mad driving maniac.

ADIDriving · 01-09-2010 05:57PM

Jamie-b wrote: »

Will anyone who has passed the test before today have to display R plates?? I only passed on Friday, have applied for the licence etc. There is no date given for this specific change. If it comes in in 2011 I could forseeably drive around as normal for a year and then have to display R plates?

Potentially, yes. The legislation has yet to be made and may be retrospective.

Atomic Pineapple · 01-09-2010 06:02PM

keithclancy wrote: »

Subsidise it with what ..

Another loan from the World Bank ?

Getting rid of the waste of space that is the RSA should free up some cash

munchkin_utd wrote: »

subsidise lessons me hole.

if someone wants to drive a car, and can afford the cost of it plus thousands to insure it, then they can afford lessons.

or better put, they can find the money for them and reprioritise their life to get lessons and be safer on the road.
Maybe forego that round the world trip?

I agree, I wouldn't be for tax payers money helping out.

When I was 17 it cost 4k púnt for insurance on a 98 1.4 Escort, to afford it I didn't go out, got a job and saved.

Jamie-b · 01-09-2010 06:22PM

Thanks, I just emailed the RSA. Reply said the legislation is not drafted but once I get the pink licence straight away it is not likely to affect me.

No certainties obviously, but I just realised the restrictions are printed on the learner permits/ licences (ie must wear glasses, be accompanied) so the RSA would have to take back all 10 year licences issued within the 2 years leading up to the implementation of this and issue new ones with the restrictions printed on them. I can't see this happening to be honest. You would have to reissue everyone with new licences and then reissue loads within a few months if they've been on the road for almost 2 years.

KamiKazi · 01-09-2010 06:37PM

Yet again motorcyclists get shafted by the RSA.

Why are the new rules not coming in until April for cars yet coming in December for bikes?

16 hours for bikes but only 12 hours for cars?

Power restriction for two years after passing the test on bikes but no power limitations at all on cars??

Load of Bullsh1t

CiaranC · 01-09-2010 06:46PM

This is a joke. Ive been trying to get a license for the last 6 years. Couldnt in France, you need 40+ hours of official lessons which cost a fortune, couldnt afford them. Couldnt in Canada, its a graduated system, you need to have proof of driving in the country for almost three years to get a licence equivalent to the Irish one, and even then you cant use a Canadian one to get a full license here. Couldnt in Australia, its the same retarded graduated system which means only permanent residents can get one.

And now I need a note off my mammy to apply here.

I had a provisional before I left, and hoped to skip all this bolloxology and just do a test and get a license, so I declared I had previously one to the Garda etc, filled in the forms and went along to the tax office. But no. I cant apply for a new learner permit without proof of an upcoming test. And I cant apply for a test without having a driver number, which is, you guessed it, printed on the learner permit.

And they wonder why people dont bother their bollix getting a license in the first place. Its less hassle getting caught, charged and convicted for not having one than going through this ****e.

oldyouth · 01-09-2010 06:50PM

zenno wrote: »

the reason i failed the test then was that i didn't brake hard skid stop as an emergency stop. the tester in sgs said stop so i slowed down indicated and pulled over thats were he failed me. at this time i was told that the emergency stop was not part of the test in the republic of ireland which is true. if it had been then i would have breaked hard obviously. but as i said it is not done in the republic of ireland so i assumed he wanted me to stop and pull over. this guy was english which could be the reason he done it as they do the emergency stop in northern ireland and britain but this is not britain so he f**ked up and i would have passed he said only for that.

Expecting the unexpected is what makes a good driver

zenno · 01-09-2010 07:08PM

oldyouth wrote: »

Expecting the unexpected is what makes a good driver

of course. well i'll keep that in mind next time just incase. but like i said the emergency stop is not part of the test in republic of ireland so i don't know why he done it. but you're right, expect the unexpected.

ferguson · 01-09-2010 07:51PM

kbannon wrote: »

"Sorry sir but the dog ate my homework"

"Sorry sir but the dog ate my car"

ferguson · 01-09-2010 07:55PM

I was driving behind a lady today who didn't seem like L by age and no L plate. She came to a red light and drove through it to the box where you park to turn right. Obviously does not know one should not cross line while light is red. Every day i see people who appear to not even know the basic driving rules like indicators/mirros etc. I think all the people who bought their licences during the amnesty should be made pass test

oldyouth · 01-09-2010 10:12PM

ferguson wrote: »

I was driving behind a lady today who didn't seem like L by age and no L plate. She came to a red light and drove through it to the box where you park to turn right. Obviously does not know one should not cross line while light is red. Every day i see people who appear to not even know the basic driving rules like indicators/mirros etc. I think all the people who bought their licences during the amnesty should be made pass test

Sounds shocking alright but why have you made the assumption that the driver 'bought' their licence. They could be just a sh1te driver who got lucky on their test date like a lot of people. But at least they might have passed it on the occasion they were required to do so

Drake66 · 01-09-2010 10:25PM

djimi wrote: »

Nerves is an unfortunate one alright; I know of a couple of good learners who fail because they bottle it on the day of the test.

Being nervous is not a valid excuse for failing a driving test; failing because of "nerves" still means that you are not a competent enough driver to be given a full license.

ADIDriving · 01-09-2010 10:38PM

Drake66 wrote: »

Being nervous is not a valid excuse for failing a driving test; failing because of "nerves" still means that you are not a competent enough driver to be given a full license.

It is a legitimate excuse.....sometimes. But let people have an excuse anyway. Good prep. with a good instructor will help reduce nerves though.

Seth Brundle · 01-09-2010 11:00PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Jeezey Chreezy, stop bringing in new laws until you're up to speed (no pun here) enforcing the laws already on the books!

It is the responsibility of the RSA to advise the Minister for Transport on road safety policy, oversee licencing etc (as per http://www.rsa.ie/Utility/About-Us/What-we-do/).
It is the responsibility of the gardai to enforce existing legislation by policing the roads, not the RSA.

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I would recommend at least an 00 car. Older cars are just not safe enough.

What utter nonsense!

Esel · 02-09-2010 01:21AM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

You would be okay if you do the full test before the changes come into place.
However you will have to take 12 lessons too as you cant take the test for 6 months and the 12 lessons rule will be coming into effect this december

No, anyone who has a learner permit before those dates will come under the old system. That's my understanding of the release anyway.

zenno wrote: »

the reason i failed the test then was that i didn't brake hard skid stop as an emergency stop. the tester in sgs said stop so i slowed down indicated and pulled over thats were he failed me. at this time i was told that the emergency stop was not part of the test in the republic of ireland which is true. if it had been then i would have breaked hard obviously. but as i said it is not done in the republic of ireland so i assumed he wanted me to stop and pull over. this guy was english which could be the reason he done it as they do the emergency stop in northern ireland and britain but this is not britain so he f**ked up and i would have passed he said only for that.

You should really appeal this. I could see you being given a licence if you do.

zenno · 02-09-2010 02:33AM

esel wrote: »

No, anyone who has a learner permit before those dates will come under the old system. That's my understanding of the release anyway.

You should really appeal this. I could see you being given a licence if you do.

It was over a year ago that this happened but i didn't know any better then and never bothered to appeal it as i was told i would just get a free test and nothing more. but a month or so after that time i had to sell the car because of financial problems and other garbage so i just left it.

I don't really like some of the comments from people either that say if you failed your test the first time you shouldn't be on the road because these people don't seem to understand there are other factors that come into it. anything can happen on the day, you can get an asshole tester as well. all you can really do is do your best on the day thats it and hope for the best. i'd say most of these whingers giving out to people just because they failed the first time never actually done a test in their life or they were just lucky.

Vertakill · 02-09-2010 02:49AM

zenno wrote: »

R.O.R well at least i have done the test and have learned one or two things compared to some people on their 5/6/7 and so on provisionals that have never done a bloody test. just because i failed from the test drivers mistake doesn't make me into a mad driving maniac.

There's no maniac test so we don't know if you're a maniac. What we do know, based on your test and based on the fact you receive a 'competency certificate' after you pass, is that you're deemed incompetent on the road. :P

zenno wrote: »

the reason i failed the test then was that i didn't brake hard skid stop as an emergency stop. the tester in sgs said stop so i slowed down indicated and pulled over thats were he failed me. at this time i was told that the emergency stop was not part of the test in the republic of ireland which is true. if it had been then i would have breaked hard obviously. but as i said it is not done in the republic of ireland so i assumed he wanted me to stop and pull over. this guy was english which could be the reason he done it as they do the emergency stop in northern ireland and britain but this is not britain so he f**ked up and i would have passed he said only for that.

My driving instructor in my pre-test explained exactly what he wanted me to do well in advance, just in case this kind of thing popped up in my test.
"In a moment I'll ask you to perform an emergency stop" was what he told me beforehand.

I seriously doubt this guy, whether or not he was getting mixed up with whatever country he may or may not have been in, just randomly asked you to 'Stop' out of nowhere.
He would've given you forewarning and it sounds like you're just trying to excuse the fact you failed your test... but that's just my opinion.

Out of curiousity, where exactly in your driving test report did you get your grade 3 (instant fail) on?
Assuming what you're saying is true, you would have an X in the red, Grade 3 column somewhere.
I'm looking at my report here and I don't have any entry that could be passed as an "Emergency stop", other than maybe the "Stopping" row but... I think that'd be too general considering that encompasses every method of stopping.

Considering if you make a grade 3 mistake within the first 10 seconds, the instructor is not supposed to tell you and you're meant to continue your test on until you sit back in the testing building where he prints out your report.. only then will you know if you failed and what you failed for.

This would give the instructor plenty of time to rectify his mistake and, provided you didn't c0ck up anywhere else, he could simply pass you and you'd be none the wiser of his mistake.

zenno wrote: »

but i have seen more and more licenced drivers not indicate on turns and basically are all over the road it's them that are a danger imo cause i have too much to lose by driving erratically like some of them

I'd agree to a certain extent with that.

Some learners may be unaware of the rules whereas, most fully licensed drivers are aware of them but choose to ignore them.

Such is the Irish driver...

avalon68 · 02-09-2010 02:49AM

CiaranC wrote: »

This is a joke. Ive been trying to get a license for the last 6 years. Couldnt in France, you need 40+ hours of official lessons which cost a fortune, couldnt afford them. Couldnt in Canada, its a graduated system, you need to have proof of driving in the country for almost three years to get a licence equivalent to the Irish one, and even then you cant use a Canadian one to get a full license here. Couldnt in Australia, its the same retarded graduated system which means only permanent residents can get one.

And now I need a note off my mammy to apply here.

I had a provisional before I left, and hoped to skip all this bolloxology and just do a test and get a license, so I declared I had previously one to the Garda etc, filled in the forms and went along to the tax office. But no. I cant apply for a new learner permit without proof of an upcoming test. And I cant apply for a test without having a driver number, which is, you guessed it, printed on the learner permit.

And they wonder why people dont bother their bollix getting a license in the first place. Its less hassle getting caught, charged and convicted for not having one than going through this ****e.

Im afraid Im not sure what you are complaining about here really - noone is preventing you from applying for your licence - you just have to follow the same procedure as everyone else. How long have you been away? I thought a provisional had a fairly limited validity - would yours not have been out of date anyway? Clearly something needs to be done to improve driver education - I think this is a start, and depending on how well its implemented it could be a really good stepping stone. As you have already pointed out, getting a licence in France and Canada is a much more rigorous procedure.....why shoudnt Ireland aspire to producing a better trained driving population too?

Homework time for learners

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