Homework time for learners

Cookie_Monster · 01-09-2010 03:51PM

A standard Hazard Perception Test will be developed and carried out during the novice driver phase. The hazard perception test will specifically address risk taking and perception of risk among novice drivers.

this sounds interesting.

And R plates. HAHAHAHAHA

No one puts up L plates, why on earth would they bother with R plates

Cookie_Monster · 01-09-2010 03:53PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

I think this is a load of Bull.
With insurance costing about €2.5k and €800 worth of lessons add to that the purchase price of the car and road tax.

12 hour lessons x 35 = 420

RossDonegan wrote: »

Where is a 17 year old going to get there hands on over €5k ?
.

A part time job, or wait until you are old enough to afford it maybe?

R.O.R · 01-09-2010 03:55PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

A part time job, or wait until you are old enough to afford it maybe?

But I want it now, and it's the bloody government's fault I can't just jump in a car and drive off :rolleyes:

zenno · 01-09-2010 03:58PM

I see, well thats cleared that up for me.

Nuttzz · 01-09-2010 04:01PM

I'm going to make a fortune signing off these books as a supervising adult

peasant · 01-09-2010 04:08PM

see, that's another thing that pisses me off about the Road Safety Authority ...it has none (authority, that is)

The above announcement is nothing but a glorified "mission statement". Bits of it will be implemented sooner, other bits later, others again need legal changes and so on.
By the time the hole programme will finally be up and running, bits of it will already be missing (because they didn't make it through the legislature), other bits will have been watered down and even more of them will be (traditionally) circumvented or not enforced properly. All we'll end up with is a slightly less transparent mess than before.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:18PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I dont see how this is going to stop accidents. All they have to do is enforce current laws. Learner drivers, for the most part, do know how drive properly and safely, they just choose not to. Making them take extra lessons or spend more time on the road will not change this.

Learner drivers are, by definition, someone who has potentially no driving experience or knowledge, hence the reason they are learning. When referring to learner drivers one must assume that they know absolutely nothing about driving a car, and legislate accordingly.

The reason why its proposed that learners take x number of hours of lessons and spend more time supervised on the roads is that there are too many people passing the test at the moment (which is far too easy) who are not suitably skilled to drive a car safely. In theory, if you have basic knowledge of car control and know the rules of the road you can pass the test in this country without ever taking a supervised lesson or really having any proper tuition or experience. This is what they are trying to prevent.

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:20PM

Will they also implement a speed limit like in the north for people with "R" plates.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:21PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Will they also implement a speed limit like in the north for people with "R" plates.

God I hope so. This country badly needs such a system, to restrict what class of car newly qualified drivers can drive and moderate how they drive for the first 18 month/2 years.

RossDonegan · 01-09-2010 04:22PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

A part time job ?

Ahh but I live in the middle of the countryside NO public transport and my parents work 9-5 Monday to Friday.
My nearest town is 12miles, so really awkward getting to and from work, a car would be alot easier.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:25PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

Ahh but I live in the middle of the countryside NO public transport and my parents work 9-5 Monday to Friday.
My nearest town is 12miles, so really awkward getting to and from work, a car would be alot easier.

So based on your unfortunate circumstances you feel you should be allowed to pass the theory test and then just start driving around on your own?

ANXIOUS · 01-09-2010 04:25PM

So these measures will only affect people that don't have a provisional licence at the moment?

Robxxx7 · 01-09-2010 04:28PM

You have to earn the right to drive not expect it ... doesn't matter where you live. I live in the back of beyond and we made sure he took proper driving instruction and pased his test then helped with his first car and insurance .. after that its up to him.

Car doesn't have to be top of the range, something safe and reliable and not big engined ...

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:28PM

djimi wrote: »

God I hope so. This country badly needs such a system, to restrict what class of car newly qualified drivers can drive and moderate how they drive for the first 18 month/2 years.

I think that there should also be an age restriction on the car that they drive. They are going to be a lot more clumsy if they are driving an old cheap car.

The only thing is that it will become harder for garda to enforce different laws for different drivers. And limits coming with an R plate would be a reason for people not to display them

Robxxx7 · 01-09-2010 04:29PM

ANXIOUS wrote: »

So these measures will only affect people that don't have a provisional licence at the moment?

no the new rules are expected to be introduced in April 2011, if it was upto me they would come in tomorrow.

Robxxx7 · 01-09-2010 04:30PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I think that there should also be an age restriction on the car that they drive. They are going to be a lot more clumsy if they are driving an old cheap car.

The only thing is that it will become harder for garda to enforce different laws for different drivers. And limits coming with an R plate would be a reason for people not to display them

tbh this is the area that needs the biggest attention as they do sod all now

zenno · 01-09-2010 04:32PM

djimi wrote: »

Learner drivers are, by definition, someone who has potentially no driving experience or knowledge, hence the reason they are learning. When referring to learner drivers one must assume that they know absolutely nothing about driving a car, and legislate accordingly.

The reason why its proposed that learners take x number of hours of lessons and spend more time supervised on the roads is that there are too many people passing the test at the moment (which is far too easy) who are not suitably skilled to drive a car safely. In theory, if you have basic knowledge of car control and know the rules of the road you can pass the test in this country without ever taking a supervised lesson or really having any proper tuition or experience. This is what they are trying to prevent.

I don't believe that to be true at all. sure I have been driving for 2 full years everyday and never once got a penalty point and never had a claim. now i would class myself as a safe driver as i always expect the unexpected and never speed, i always stay to the speed limit. I am still classed as a learner driver but i am not just starting to learn. you said..someone who has potentially no driving experience. i should think i have driving experience after two years driving through all kinds of weather and areas.

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:32PM

Robxxx7 wrote: »

no the new rules are expected to be introduced in April 2011, if it was upto me they would come in tomorrow.

Some of the laws will be implemented by the 6th of December 2010.

Jamie-b · 01-09-2010 04:33PM

Will anyone who has passed the test before today have to display R plates?? I only passed on Friday, have applied for the licence etc. There is no date given for this specific change. If it comes in in 2011 I could forseeably drive around as normal for a year and then have to display R plates?

Irishrossoblu · 01-09-2010 04:34PM

Can the insurance companies not be involved in these new systems, ie not insuring learner drivers or invalidating learner drivers when they are not accompanied?

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:35PM

Jamie-b wrote: »

Will anyone who has passed the test before today have to display R plates?? I only passed on Friday, have applied for the licence etc. There is no date given for this specific change. If it comes in in 2011 I could forseeably drive around as normal for a year and then have to display R plates?

You would be okay if you do the full test before the changes come into place.
However you will have to take 12 lessons too as you cant take the test for 6 months and the 12 lessons rule will be coming into effect this december

Drake66 · 01-09-2010 04:35PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

Ahh but I live in the middle of the countryside NO public transport and my parents work 9-5 Monday to Friday.
My nearest town is 12miles, so really awkward getting to and from work, a car would be alot easier.

Bicycles have not vanished off the face of the planet have they?

Robxxx7 · 01-09-2010 04:36PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

Some of the laws will be implemented by the 6th of December 2010.

All new first time learner permit holders with effect from 6th December 2010 for motorcycles and 4th April 2011 for cars

R.O.R · 01-09-2010 04:37PM

zenno wrote: »

I don't believe that to be true at all. sure I have been driving for 2 full years everyday and never once got a penalty point and never had a claim. now i would class myself as a safe driver as i always expect the unexpected and never speed, i always stay to the speed limit. I am still classed as a learner driver but i am not just starting to learn. you said..someone who has potentially no driving experience. i should think i have driving experience after two years driving through all kinds of weather and areas.

Are you on a lerner's permit for the past 2 years?

If so, and you are such a great safe driver, why the f**k haven't you passed a test yet?

Tea 1000 · 01-09-2010 04:37PM

RossDonegan wrote: »

Where is a 17 year old going to get there hands on over €5k ?
Its going to put pressure on parents who are already stressed out trying to meet there own payments.

This here is the problem. Mammy and Daddy, I want a new car for my 17th birthday. "OK son, here you go, taxed, insured and ready. Off you go now with your mates and have a good night out to celebrate".
How about this method - work your balls off to earn the price of your car and you might not be so quick to mangle it and everyone near it.
Pressure on parents? I put zero pressure on my parents when I was 17 with regards to the cost of cars, because it was simple. If I didn't have the money for one, I wasn't getting one. No pressure at all!

dillo2k10 · 01-09-2010 04:38PM

Irishrossoblu wrote: »

Can the insurance companies not be involved in these new systems, ie not insuring learner drivers or invalidating learner drivers when they are not accompanied?

They could but that would be their own decision. They most likely wont as people will just choose an insurance company that doesnt have these terms, but some insurance policies do already have these terms.

That could cause some trouble though when someone has to claim their own insurance because the learner wasnt insured properly.

Jamie-b · 01-09-2010 04:40PM

You would be okay if you do the full test before the changes come into place.
However you will have to take 12 lessons too as you cant take the test for 6 months and the 12 lessons rule will be coming into effect this december

Thanks dillo2k10, I meant I passed the full test last Friday so I have already applied the pink licence. I am curious if they implement this rule, for example, in Decemeber, will it only be people who apply for a permit after that who will display R plates when they eventually get a full licence, or will everyone who has gained a full licence this year and last have to display them?

zenno · 01-09-2010 04:40PM

R.O.R wrote: »

Are you on a lerner's permit for the past 2 years?

If so, and you are such a great safe driver, why the f**k haven't you passed a test yet?

no need to get angry with me. I failed the test but not everyone passes the first time now do they. i'm sure i'll pass it this time around.

djimi · 01-09-2010 04:45PM

zenno wrote: »

I don't believe that to be true at all. sure I have been driving for 2 full years everyday and never once got a penalty point and never had a claim. now i would class myself as a safe driver as i always expect the unexpected and never speed, i always stay to the speed limit. I am still classed as a learner driver but i am not just starting to learn. you said..someone who has potentially no driving experience. i should think i have driving experience after two years driving through all kinds of weather and areas.

I take on board what you are saying, but how do you legistate for that? You cant bring in a law for learners who have x number of years experience and feel they are safe to drive, it just doesnt work like that. If someone is genuinely a good safe and confident driver then they should have no problem passing their test, and its not going to kill them to wait the couple of months it takes to get a test.

If you feel you are a safe driver then why have you not done your test by now?

RossDonegan · 01-09-2010 04:47PM

dillo2k10 wrote: »

I think that there should also be an age restriction on the car that they drive. They are going to be a lot more clumsy if they are driving an old cheap car.

Wooooooh hold it.

You expect a 17 year old to buy a modern car costing more than say a 92 Fiesta which means the insurance will equally increase.

So buy a €2000 2002 Fiesta and pay higher insurance or buy a 1992 Fiesta for €200 and pay less insurance than you would on the 2002 Fiesta ?? Ill take the cheaper one thanks!!

I think that young drivers should drive older cars like late 80's early 90's 1.0L Fiestas,Corsa's,Nova's,Escorts,Charades ect...

Where you can learn to drive properly with ABS,Airbags or a TCS.
Then if they have a bump they will get hurt but not going fast enough to be seriously injured. Then they won't be so stupid to make the same mistake again.

Homework time for learners

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