What is the fate of the Mark 3's?

foggy_lad · 28-08-2010 02:10AM

dowlingm wrote: »

201s have already been used on Ballina-Belview. Acquire the other 50% of the Enterprise power, vans and stock, refit/repaint, put them to work (as four sets) on Westport/Galway/Waterford-Heuston limited stop/KRPfast services to make best use of 201 crew/route knowledge. Enterprise would get 4 22K sets in exchange.

it has been said before that locomotives will most likely never be used for passenger trains in Ireland again but no harm in dreaming.

Stonewolf · 28-08-2010 09:30AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

it has been said before that locomotives will most likely never be used for passenger trains in Ireland again but no harm in dreaming.

If we had sufficient good quality railcar or consist with power car stock then this wouldn't be the massive issue some people on here make it out to be. The major problem with loco haulage is IEs bizarre hatred of freight which is the driving force behind the mothballing of locomotives early in thier useful life which will, down the line, result in problems carrying out PW work and rescuing failed sets.

center15 · 28-08-2010 10:26AM

corktina wrote: »

the Cork trains do run with one 201. the other end is a driving trailer .(it has a generator for train supply)

Thanks, and without a 201 would the train not be able to run?

corktina · 28-08-2010 10:33AM

center15 wrote: »

Thanks, and without a 201 would the train not be able to run?

precisely.

corktina · 28-08-2010 10:35AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not to mention the cost to the taxpayer on that amaising Antonov 201 stunt.

I don't know if thats the case. I think the manufacturer might have paid for that. If I remember rightly , the idea was to get a loco here quickly for acceptance trials in advance of the rest of the fleet. In that case, Id imagine the loco wasn't actaualy CIE proerrty at the time

corktina · 28-08-2010 10:41AM

Stonewolf wrote: »

If we had sufficient good quality railcar or consist with power car stock then this wouldn't be the massive issue some people on here make it out to be. The major problem with loco haulage is IEs bizarre hatred of freight which is the driving force behind the mothballing of locomotives early in thier useful life which will, down the line, result in problems carrying out PW work and rescuing failed sets.

its a locospotter issue. Locosexuals like locos and dont like units, it doesnt matter to them that Multiple units are much more efficent, they like to have a proper loco to write its number down. I speak with authority here :-)

Freight in Ireland is insufficent in enough bulk to sustain the use of rail. Its a sad fact but most railfreight invloves road transfer at one end or the other and once its on truck for the short journeys likely here, it may as well stay on a truck for the whole journey. Basically rail has had its day and must eke out a living on the crumbs the existing infrastructure allows it to carry.

corktina · 28-08-2010 11:34AM

another point is while you are loading the second wagon on a train, the first truck will be already on its way to destination (and so on ..)and a train of say 30 wagons can go to one destination whereas 30 trucks can go to 30.

foggy_lad · 28-08-2010 11:36AM

corktina wrote: »

another point is while you are loading the second wagon on a train, the first truck will be already on its way to destination (and so on ..)and a train of say 30 wagons can go to one destination whereas 30 trucks can go to 30.

the train bogies can be split up but this requires even more staff qualified and paid a higher rate to be sitting around all shift to uncouple/couple one or two trains.

center15 · 28-08-2010 11:42AM

corktina wrote: »

I bow to your knowledge of CIE, I'm only surmising

Yes a 071 would do if it's compatible with Mk4s (don't know)

Thanks for all the answers, I probably should have been a bit clearer I am more curious would the train be able to run without a 201 or 071 basically just the driving trailer or is the function of this purely as a generator. Thanks for all the helpful replies!

foggy_lad · 28-08-2010 11:59AM

the driving trailer is just to drive the train via the locomotives power and it also has an engine to power lights etc on the train so no it could not be used for motive power without serious modification

kc56 · 28-08-2010 01:03PM

corktina wrote: »

Yes a 071 would do if it's compatible with Mk4s (don't know).

071's were never equipped for push-pull operations; only the 201's and 121's were. By equipped, I mean a) ability to be remotely controlled from a DVT and b) door closing controls. The answer is that 071's are not compatible with Mk4, Enterpise or the Mk3 push-pulls. Of course they could haul any train in traditional pull mode but then a guard would be required to operate the doors.

donvito99 · 28-08-2010 01:12PM

Is there a standard Irish guage in Australia? So if we do get to the stage where we have perfectly good but unemployed Locos, could they get a J2 and head down under?

ardmacha · 28-08-2010 01:45PM

Is there a standard Irish guage in Australia?

there is, and in Brazil too.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-08-2010 12:05AM

Anyone watching the angelus before six one news this evening?

Nice fly over shot of Heuston station depicting strings of abandoned M3's in the background.

Someone will have to record it as I don't have a VCR.

Oliver1985 · 29-08-2010 09:14AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anyone watching the angelus before six one news this evening?

Nice fly over shot of Heuston station depicting strings of abandoned M3's in the background.

Someone will have to record it as I don't have a VCR.

Nobody has a VCR anymore

:D:D:eek:

corktina · 29-08-2010 09:48AM

we do, we stand our tv on it....:D

Run_to_da_hills · 29-08-2010 01:47PM

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

lord lucan · 29-08-2010 02:42PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-08-2010 02:46PM

lord lucan wrote: »

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

They must be doing it on purpose.

Cookie_Monster · 29-08-2010 02:58PM

lord lucan wrote: »

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

Its lazy though, why not have an mk4 photo, if they can have a (fairly) new bus in the latest livery...

Having said that there are at least 2 071's in that livery still about iirc

foggy_lad · 29-08-2010 03:03PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

maybe just highlighting how backward irish rail are?

KenGriffin · 29-08-2010 04:41PM

It's down to the very limited range of stock photos of Iarnrod Eireann trains available at newspapers. When I worked at the Tribune, there was one stage where we only had one dark shot of ancient carriages pulling out of Heuston station, which was used for every railway story.

I was always surprised that Iarnrod Eireann didn't do a stock photos CD themselves with modern views of the trains and the main Dublin stations and send it to the picture desks, along with some notes telling them which routes the different trains were used on (so you don't wind up with a shot of the Enterprise on a story about the WRC).

dowlingm · 30-08-2010 03:03AM

In North America, multiple units are classified as locomotives. This results in very onerous inspection regimes which mean all but a tiny fraction of interurban rail is loco+trailers without so much as a DVT. The exceptions are a few remaining Budd RDCs (first constructed 1950s) and the few Colorado Railcar DMUs built before they went bust and they are operated on thin rural routes like the Alaska Railroad. If similar requirements pertained in Europe the DMU expansion might never have happened.

dowlingm · 30-08-2010 01:53PM

When the Enterprise trains arrives (28 carriages) they were meant to be marshalled as 4 x 7 but ended up marshalled as 3 x 8 with a spare DVT, spare 1st and 2 x standards. Does demand still require that, and if it does could a Mark 3 refurb and transfer similar to the EGV project be done to bulk them out to 4 x 8?

30-08-2010 05:53PM

dowlingm wrote: »

When the Enterprise trains arrives (28 carriages) they were meant to be marshalled as 4 x 7 but ended up marshalled as 3 x 8 with a spare DVT, spare 1st and 2 x standards. Does demand still require that, and if it does could a Mark 3 refurb and transfer similar to the EGV project be done to bulk them out to 4 x 8?

After the EGVs enter service they will revert to a 4 x 7 formation due to platform clearance at Connolly.

Cookie_Monster · 31-08-2010 01:51PM

Would there be any merit of keeping these carriages but converting them into permanent DMUs with the addition of either new or rebuilt PCs rather than buying whole new rakes of DMUs?

say buy 40 PCs and runs sets of PC-mk3-mk3-mk3-PC as the intercity DMU as the doors are not suitable for commuter use.

foggy_lad · 31-08-2010 01:53PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Would there be any merit of keeping these carriages but converting them into permanent DMUs with the addition of either new or rebuilt DVTs rather than buying whole new rakes of DMUs?

say buy 40 DVTs and runs sets of DVT-mk3-mk3-mk3-DVT as the intercity DMU as the doors are not suitable for commuter use.

would probably be too expensive considering they would all need serious refurbishment now and would not be value for money

corktina · 31-08-2010 02:00PM

you need a power car...dvt is driving van TRAILER

Cookie_Monster · 31-08-2010 02:08PM

corktina wrote: »

you need a power car...dvt is driving van TRAILER

meh, you know what I mean...

corktina · 31-08-2010 04:16PM

yeah...;) I did...:D

What is the fate of the Mark 3's?

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