What is the fate of the Mark 3's?

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

201s have already been used on Ballina-Belview. Acquire the other 50% of the Enterprise power, vans and stock, refit/repaint, put them to work (as four sets) on Westport/Galway/Waterford-Heuston limited stop/KRPfast services to make best use of 201 crew/route knowledge. Enterprise would get 4 22K sets in exchange.

it has been said before that locomotives will most likely never be used for passenger trains in Ireland again but no harm in dreaming.

Stonewolf

foggy_lad wrote: »

it has been said before that locomotives will most likely never be used for passenger trains in Ireland again but no harm in dreaming.

If we had sufficient good quality railcar or consist with power car stock then this wouldn't be the massive issue some people on here make it out to be. The major problem with loco haulage is IEs bizarre hatred of freight which is the driving force behind the mothballing of locomotives early in thier useful life which will, down the line, result in problems carrying out PW work and rescuing failed sets.

center15

corktina wrote: »

the Cork trains do run with one 201. the other end is a driving trailer .(it has a generator for train supply)

Thanks, and without a 201 would the train not be able to run?

corktina

center15 wrote: »

Thanks, and without a 201 would the train not be able to run?

precisely.

corktina

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not to mention the cost to the taxpayer on that amaising Antonov 201 stunt.

I don't know if thats the case. I think the manufacturer might have paid for that. If I remember rightly , the idea was to get a loco here quickly for acceptance trials in advance of the rest of the fleet. In that case, Id imagine the loco wasn't actaualy CIE proerrty at the time

corktina

Stonewolf wrote: »

If we had sufficient good quality railcar or consist with power car stock then this wouldn't be the massive issue some people on here make it out to be. The major problem with loco haulage is IEs bizarre hatred of freight which is the driving force behind the mothballing of locomotives early in thier useful life which will, down the line, result in problems carrying out PW work and rescuing failed sets.

its a locospotter issue. Locosexuals like locos and dont like units, it doesnt matter to them that Multiple units are much more efficent, they like to have a proper loco to write its number down. I speak with authority here :-)

Freight in Ireland is insufficent in enough bulk to sustain the use of rail. Its a sad fact but most railfreight invloves road transfer at one end or the other and once its on truck for the short journeys likely here, it may as well stay on a truck for the whole journey. Basically rail has had its day and must eke out a living on the crumbs the existing infrastructure allows it to carry.

corktina

another point is while you are loading the second wagon on a train, the first truck will be already on its way to destination (and so on ..)and a train of say 30 wagons can go to one destination whereas 30 trucks can go to 30.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

another point is while you are loading the second wagon on a train, the first truck will be already on its way to destination (and so on ..)and a train of say 30 wagons can go to one destination whereas 30 trucks can go to 30.

the train bogies can be split up but this requires even more staff qualified and paid a higher rate to be sitting around all shift to uncouple/couple one or two trains.

center15

corktina wrote: »

I bow to your knowledge of CIE, I'm only surmising

Yes a 071 would do if it's compatible with Mk4s (don't know)

Thanks for all the answers, I probably should have been a bit clearer I am more curious would the train be able to run without a 201 or 071 basically just the driving trailer or is the function of this purely as a generator. Thanks for all the helpful replies!

foggy_lad

the driving trailer is just to drive the train via the locomotives power and it also has an engine to power lights etc on the train so no it could not be used for motive power without serious modification

kc56

corktina wrote: »

Yes a 071 would do if it's compatible with Mk4s (don't know).

071's were never equipped for push-pull operations; only the 201's and 121's were. By equipped, I mean a) ability to be remotely controlled from a DVT and b) door closing controls. The answer is that 071's are not compatible with Mk4, Enterpise or the Mk3 push-pulls. Of course they could haul any train in traditional pull mode but then a guard would be required to operate the doors.

donvito99

Is there a standard Irish guage in Australia? So if we do get to the stage where we have perfectly good but unemployed Locos, could they get a J2 and head down under?

ardmacha

Is there a standard Irish guage in Australia?

there is, and in Brazil too.

Run_to_da_hills

Anyone watching the angelus before six one news this evening?

Nice fly over shot of Heuston station depicting strings of abandoned M3's in the background.

Someone will have to record it as I don't have a VCR.

Oliver1985

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Anyone watching the angelus before six one news this evening?

Nice fly over shot of Heuston station depicting strings of abandoned M3's in the background.

Someone will have to record it as I don't have a VCR.

Nobody has a VCR anymore :D:D:eek:

corktina

we do, we stand our tv on it....:D

Run_to_da_hills

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

lord lucan

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

They must be doing it on purpose.

Cookie_Monster

lord lucan wrote: »

It's just handier to use stock library images i'd imagine. The only people getting annoyed by that would be Dick Fearn and Barry Kenny.

Its lazy though, why not have an mk4 photo, if they can have a (fairly) new bus in the latest livery...

Having said that there are at least 2 071's in that livery still about iirc

foggy_lad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Todays Sunday Business Post 29th August 10 foolishly desplays M3 Coaches powered by an 071 in old colours.

How come the press are always so ill informed about IR's current rolling stock.

maybe just highlighting how backward irish rail are?

KenGriffin

It's down to the very limited range of stock photos of Iarnrod Eireann trains available at newspapers. When I worked at the Tribune, there was one stage where we only had one dark shot of ancient carriages pulling out of Heuston station, which was used for every railway story.

I was always surprised that Iarnrod Eireann didn't do a stock photos CD themselves with modern views of the trains and the main Dublin stations and send it to the picture desks, along with some notes telling them which routes the different trains were used on (so you don't wind up with a shot of the Enterprise on a story about the WRC).

dowlingm

In North America, multiple units are classified as locomotives. This results in very onerous inspection regimes which mean all but a tiny fraction of interurban rail is loco+trailers without so much as a DVT. The exceptions are a few remaining Budd RDCs (first constructed 1950s) and the few Colorado Railcar DMUs built before they went bust and they are operated on thin rural routes like the Alaska Railroad. If similar requirements pertained in Europe the DMU expansion might never have happened.

dowlingm

When the Enterprise trains arrives (28 carriages) they were meant to be marshalled as 4 x 7 but ended up marshalled as 3 x 8 with a spare DVT, spare 1st and 2 x standards. Does demand still require that, and if it does could a Mark 3 refurb and transfer similar to the EGV project be done to bulk them out to 4 x 8?

dowlingm

dowlingm wrote: »

When the Enterprise trains arrives (28 carriages) they were meant to be marshalled as 4 x 7 but ended up marshalled as 3 x 8 with a spare DVT, spare 1st and 2 x standards. Does demand still require that, and if it does could a Mark 3 refurb and transfer similar to the EGV project be done to bulk them out to 4 x 8?

After the EGVs enter service they will revert to a 4 x 7 formation due to platform clearance at Connolly.

Cookie_Monster

Would there be any merit of keeping these carriages but converting them into permanent DMUs with the addition of either new or rebuilt PCs rather than buying whole new rakes of DMUs?

say buy 40 PCs and runs sets of PC-mk3-mk3-mk3-PC as the intercity DMU as the doors are not suitable for commuter use.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Would there be any merit of keeping these carriages but converting them into permanent DMUs with the addition of either new or rebuilt DVTs rather than buying whole new rakes of DMUs?

say buy 40 DVTs and runs sets of DVT-mk3-mk3-mk3-DVT as the intercity DMU as the doors are not suitable for commuter use.

would probably be too expensive considering they would all need serious refurbishment now and would not be value for money

corktina

you need a power car...dvt is driving van TRAILER

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

you need a power car...dvt is driving van TRAILER

meh, you know what I mean...

corktina

yeah...;) I did...:D