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The Tipperary Venue: major plans for sport & culture complex off M8 Junction 5

245

Comments

  • #52
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Why chose an area like Tipperary? Why not put where it could have an additive effect like Limerick? Where there is also a substantial population. It reminds me of the proposed Athlone development for the Chinese.


  • #53
    ShaneIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭ShaneIRL


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Why chose an area like Tipperary? Why not put where it could have an additive effect like Limerick? Where there is also a substantial population. It reminds me of the proposed Athlone development for the Chinese.

    Well Tipperary now has Motorways through to Dublin (approx 80mins) and Cork (approx 75mins) and is also extremely close to both Limerick and Waterford. Plus Richard Quirke is Tipperary Born and together with its good location is being loyal to his native county.

    Looking forward to this one happening.


  • #54
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Planning decision due on 12 August last I heard from someone in the Tipperary forum. The location is good in my opinion. In terms of proximity to Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and Dublin, Tipp is a good choice. Cork is only about 60 minutes from junction 5; Dublin 70 minutes.


  • #55
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Furet wrote: »
    Planning decision due on 12 August last I heard from someone in the Tipperary forum. The location is good in my opinion. In terms of proximity to Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and Dublin, Tipp is a good choice. Cork is only about 60 minutes from junction 5; Dublin 70 minutes.

    Good choice but it's clearly not the best choice. Right?


  • #56
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    The location of the venue is not easily accessible from Galway at the moment. Might not be so bad going via Limerick when the M18 reaches Rathmorrissey and the M7 Limerick-Nenagh is done.


  • #57
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    KevR wrote: »
    The location of the venue is not easily accessible from Galway at the moment. Might not be so bad going via Limerick when the M18 reaches Rathmorrissey and the M7 Limerick-Nenagh is done.

    That would be best: M18, SRR, N24, N74, M8. Of all of that the N74 is the worst road by far, but it's relatively short.

    Or: M6 to the Tullamore exit, and then down to Portlaoise and M8 southbound.


  • #58
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Good choice but it's clearly not the best choice. Right?

    For the developer it is the best choice. It depends on what he is trying to achieve, and what that is, it seems to me, is to create an an amenity/business in his home area. I suppose it's a bit like Sean Quinn investing in Cavan-Monaghan. I do think, too, that Tipperary is a good place to have a top-class horse-racing and greyhound racing track, as well as golf course. Why? Because such developments are in keeping with the "culture" of the area. Now, there are things that I regard as outlandish (the replica White House), but the concert venue too seems to me to be okay. So really I think the idea is well sited, and I don't think there's any harm in having it there whatsoever. It's private money after all.


  • #59
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    Furet wrote: »
    That would be best: M18, SRR, N24, N74, M8. Of all of that the N74 is the worst road by far, but it's relatively short.

    On the few occasions I have driven to Thurles in the past I have gone Loughrea, Portumna, Nenagh and then the R498 to Thurles. If I'm not mistaken, the R498 isn't too bad; the road from Loughrea to Nenagh is a lot worse. So a decent option in the future might be: M18 to Limerick, Tunnel & SRR, M7 to Nenagh and the R498 from there.
    Furet wrote: »
    Or: M6 to the Tullamore exit, and then down to Portlaoise and M8 southbound.

    Was in a massive queue of traffic stuck behind a tractor driving at 5kmh all the way from Mountmellick to Tullamore on Friday. I was actually sorry that I didn't go via the Dublin Outer Ring Road for my Newbridge-Galway journey!


  • #60
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    KevR wrote: »
    On the few occasions I have driven to Thurles in the past I have gone Loughrea, Portumna, Nenagh and then the R498 to Thurles. If I'm not mistaken, the R498 isn't too bad; the road from Loughrea to Nenagh is a lot worse. So a decent option in the future might be: M18 to Limerick, Tunnel & SRR, M7 to Nenagh and the R498 from there.

    Looks like you're right. I hadn't considered R routes at all :o


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  • #61
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Tipp Venue Hold Up Rumours Scotched

    Published Date: 19 August 2010
    By Staff Reporter
    By: Anne O'Grady

    A report at the weekend that archaeologists working on the M8 motorway have discovered evidence of settlements which will scupper the 460 million euro Tipperary Venue at Two-Mile-Borris have been rejected this week by Independent T.D., Mr. Michael Lowry.

    The report in a Sunday newspaper maintained that archaeologists had discovered a 5,000 year old settlement beside the proposed site of the development, as well as 19 medieval skeletons.

    It was stated that officials at the Department of the Environment had written to North Tipperary County Council as a consequence stating the planning permission could not be approved until a proper archaeological excavation of the site was carried out.

    However, Mr. Lowry stated this week that a preliminary survey and dig had resulted in what could possibly be evidence to suggest a settlement but the actual location was outside the main planning area.

    He maintained that the find did not interfere with any of the proposed construction and said the Council and promoter, Mr. Richard Quirke, had already agreed that a professional archaeologist would be appointed to oversee all works on the site as and when they happened.

    Continued Page 6

    And, the project’s Architect, Mr. Brian O’Connell has stated that the nature of the settlement is that there is evidence of “pit fires” having been lit. That, he said, was the only evidence found on the site. “A number of small pit fires were found but not on any of the site that interferes with the development”.

    Mr. O’Connell stated that there was a general policy that an archaeological investigation was not carried out during crop time and when harvests were completed these were undertaken. The harvest, he said, had now been completed on the site on the other side of the M8 and the investigation was now being carried out and would be lodged. “That is by agreement with the planners”, he said.

    Contacted by the “Tipperary Star” this week, a spokesman for the Department of the Environment stated that further information had been requested by the planning authority on 21st of December last. The request for further information had required the preparation and submission of an archaeological assessment report in advance of a planning decision.

    “The required archaeological assessment has not been completed on site to date and no detailed report has been submitted for comments. The further information submission includes an “archaeological assessment progress report” prepared by Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd.

    which notes that a geophysical survey was carried out on site on 13th July 2010 and that “the report on the geophysical survey will issue in the next couple of weeks.” The progress report also notes that a licence application for archaeological testing was submitted to the Department of the Environment, Heritage & Local Government and National Museum of Ireland on 15th July 2010”.

    However, the Department said, the request for further information clearly stated that “having completed the work, the archaeologist should submit a written report to the Planning Authority and to the Department of the Environment, Heritage & Local Government, assessing any impact the development may have on archaeological material/features.” No such detailed archaeological assessment report has been submitted in response to the request for further information”.

    The Department said the applicant should be requested to submit the required archaeological assessment report in response to the request for further information.

    An archaeological assessment progress report was not considered to be a sufficient response to the request for further information.

    “It is our view that a final decision should not be made on this application until the Planning Authority and this office has had the opportunity to evaluate the Archaeological Assessment. We will forward a recommendation based on the Archaeological Assessment to the Planning Authority”, it added.

    However, Mr. Lowry stated that as part of their pre-planning preparation, the Council had requested that a preliminary survey and dig be conducted on the whole site and at one point they had come across what could possibly be evidence to suggest a settlement.

    The actual location, he said, was outside the main planning area and it did not interfere with any of the proposed construction. “They found it on a part that would be a green area or a carparking area. Nothing will happen within ten metres of that area”.

    Mr. Lowry said the Council and the promoter had agreed that a professional archaeologist would be appointed to oversee all works on the site as and when they happened.

    “The Council will be conditioning the application to deal with all archaeology matters and a professional archaeologist will be appointed to oversee the work on the site when it happens”.

    Asked if he was confident that the development would proceed, he stated that he was. “The scale, scope and sheer magnitude of the planning application means that an enormous amount of consultation has gone on with representatives of various elements, sections of the Council and outside bodies, including the NRA. There has been a huge level of contact and consultation”.

    Mr. Lowry said in all these matters issues would arise and a lot had already been resolved. Any issue which remained would be part of the planning conditions set down by the Council.

    His estimation was that it was progressing well and there had been a great level of co-operation between all the various agencies.

    Asked the anticipated starting date of the development, the Independent T.D. said planning permission was due in September and it would be “all systems go” after that. The design team were at an advanced stage of planning, which was the civil engineering works, he added.
    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/Tipp-Venue-Hold-Up-Rumours.6480796.jp?articlepage=1


  • #62
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I am stupefied that this is still even up for discussion. The country is on its uppers and we're building a pleasuredome? In Two-Mile-Flippin-Borris? If the government wasn't dependent on Lowry's vote I would have just ignored this thread but unfortunately one does not know what deals were done. A major infrastructure project like this should depend on the best economic location but instead Lowry will probably be able to see it from his house, Palin-style.
    Furet wrote:
    Assuming every cent is borrowed, of course. These guys aren't stupid.
    I can understand why Furet said this in 2009. I would hope in 2010 we'd be a bit more realistic. I would certainly hope no financial institution currently engaged in NAMA would have the idiocy to risk the PR nightmare that would be this thing going belly up.


  • #63
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I am still in favour of the developers taking this as far as they can.

    Firstly, I've said my bit about the location. I think it's a good one.

    Second, I do not think the development is "inappropriate", i.e., it's not a housing development and it's not a vast retail park.

    Third, it will consist of vast areas of open, green space.

    Fourth, no public money should be used to fund it.

    Fifth, I believe that a concert area, golf course, race course and hotel are very much in keeping with the "culture" of Tipperary, and that this makes the development appropriate, at least conceptually. Gambling is part and parcel of racing, and while I find the idea of a casino personally distasteful, I do have a very Las Vegas image of what a casino is.

    I say let the plans develop, and let's see what happens. We are still far from the construction phase. I may yet turn against this proposal, but not today.


  • #64
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Ireland isn't short of racecourses and it sure as hell is not short of hotels. This is a relocation of the Phoenix Park Racecourse proposal which was basically a trojan horse for a casino. Living in Ontario I can tell you the implications of going the casino route bear serious examination.


  • #65
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    This will never fly. I can't understand anybody having Michael Lowry involved with them with his track record - Ben Dunne, Horgan's Quay etc.etc but then of course he is one of the pillars propping up this awful government.......


  • #66
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I think we should go the whole hog on this and legalise Prostitution in Ireland's very own Las Vegas. (Where it is actually illegal!). Legal brothels in Two-Mile-Borris anyone? (I am actually being serious here btw!)


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  • #67
    D'Peoples Voice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭D'Peoples Voice


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I think we should go the whole hog on this and legalise Prostitution in Ireland's very own Las Vegas. (Where it is actually illegal!). Legal brothels in Two-Mile-Borris anyone? (I am actually being serious here btw!)

    its about the only riding facility they'll see down in Two-mile_borris


  • #68
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I think we should go the whole hog on this and legalise Prostitution in Ireland's very own Las Vegas. (Where it is actually illegal!). Legal brothels in Two-Mile-Borris anyone? (I am actually being serious here btw!)

    Well, that's more suited to the Humanities forum to be honest. My own opinion is yes, it should be legal and regulated. But this thread is about the proposed Tipperary Venue's planning and construction, not prostitution. Take it here perhaps...


  • #69
    bg07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    Are any of the things that they are proposing to construct such as a racetrack and a casino anymore infrastructure than a brothel would be.


  • #70
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    bg07 wrote: »
    Are any of the things that they are proposing to construct such as a racetrack and a casino anymore infrastructure than a brothel would be.

    Civic infrastructure along the lines of Croke Park and Lansdowne Road are part of the proposal, in addition to attendant changes to M8 junction 5 plus repercussions for the proposed N62 Thurles Bypass. These make the topic worthy of discussion here. Brothels not so much.


  • #71
    Aidan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Aidan1


    Civic infrastructure along the lines of Croke Park and Lansdowne Road are part of the proposal

    Sorry Furet, but this proposed 'infrastructure', has all the hallmarks of a planning sweetener, or trojan horse. Once the licence for a casino, or horse racing venue has been obtained, odds are all of the public good type elements will be delayed, then postponed, then quietly forgotten about (with the developer pleading force majeure if ever taken to court). This was a regular occurence throughout the last 10 years. There are numerous examples in practically every town in Ireland, I'm afraid. The uncertain legal ability of local authoritys to actually compel people to adhere to planning conditions is one issue, the fact that Councillors are often supportive of any development, at whatever cost, is another.

    The fact that Hotels are still being proposed is very strange, for example, given the fact that we're probably 30/40% over capacity nationally. Like I said near the start of the thread, Tipp is the ideal place for an equestrian centre. Adding a Las Vegas style centre to that turns the whole thing into a plot from a bad 1980s Oirish film.


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  • #72
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I suppose what lends the project credibility for me is that the idea of using the venue as a new equestrian centre is well established. The current owners of track near Limerick Junction have been in talks with Quirke, and have acknowledged that their facilities are inadequate. They support the new racecourse, and numerous high profile trainers were at the launch in the Horse and Jockey hotel last autumn. Thus I'm quite sanguine. You do make excellent points (as usual) and at the very least this thread might serve as a case-study of how proposals such as this can 'veer', shall we say, away from what was originally promised.


  • #73
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Does this plan include rezoning Thurles Racecourse to housing from some form of amenity designation? Who owns the Racecourse at the moment?


  • #74
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Only hearing about this now and I'm in favour.

    This proposal feels much better to me than 2002's Vega City in north county Dublin. Sporting facilities generate huge amounts of repeat visits and the horse racing course is simply a replacement of an existing one in Thurles - and therefore already has a customer base. It can't fail.

    The concert venue sounds oversized but I agree that facilities for concerts are lacking outside the coastal cities.

    The casino and high-roller demographic is too reliant on gambling being legalised (how likely?) and on those high-rollers taking Ireland seriously as a gambling destination - we've no history of that and would need to build the industry from stratch. This element of the development mightn't make it to the end, but the rest will.

    We're over capacity on hotels but not in that area. Empty hotels in Cork or Dublin don't mean anything to someone trying to stay the night in Thurles.

    The only thing I'd say is that maybe Portlaoise would be a better location due to the M7 proximity - as other posters have point out, the M8 junction would need to be modified and at least the northeast quadrant of an N62 Thurles bypass would be needed.
    MrMicra wrote: »
    gambling addictions for Irish people.
    Banning everything on the grounds that people can't be trusted with it is a sign of an immature society.


  • #75
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Ireland is a small country so travel times are not onerous. Does it REALLY matter that facilities for concerts are "lacking outside of the coastal cities", given that Thurles is 90 mins from Cork and Limerick? How many concert venues are required before they cannibalise each other by offering lower and lower hosting fees, given the market can only absorb so many events during a recession which is unlikely to be short, and the main demographic for which being the one most likely to emigrate in the next few years?

    spacetweek - there ain't no votes in Portlaoise for Lowry. No chance.


  • #76
    dugganm07
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭dugganm07


    This reminds me of the Burswood facility in Perth Australia. Ive been there a number of times and its fantastic. The only problem i have with the proposed facility is its location. But if it is marketed properly worldwide it could attract a lot of visitors. I think it would be a great place for stag parties and so on. Here is a loom at the burswood facility. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burswood_Entertainment_Complex


  • #77
    jonnybravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭jonnybravo


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Does this plan include rezoning Thurles Racecourse to housing from some form of amenity designation? Who owns the Racecourse at the moment?

    Racecourse is owned by the Moloneys in Thurles. Quirke is supposed to have reached agreement with them to close the racecourse in Thurles Town and transfer the race meetings to the Venue. I haven't heard anything about housing being built there but judging by the current glut of housing in Thurles there won't be much demand for any for a long time.


  • #78
    jonnybravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭jonnybravo


    Anyone know what the rules are regarding Casinos at the moment in Ireland? I know that there are a few Casinos operating under members only situations in Dublin but could this system work in any Casino or is it limited?

    I personally cannot see this happening unless the Casino gets the go ahead because Horse-racing, golf courses, concerts etc etc won't be profitable enough to get a reasonable rate of return on the huge investment that it is going to take.


  • #79
    marathont
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭marathont


    jonnybravo wrote: »
    Anyone know what the rules are regarding Casinos at the moment in Ireland? I know that there are a few Casinos operating under members only situations in Dublin but could this system work in any Casino or is it limited?

    I personally cannot see this happening unless the Casino gets the go ahead because Horse-racing, golf courses, concerts etc etc won't be profitable enough to get a reasonable rate of return on the huge investment that it is going to take.

    I dont know the rules, but casinos seem to be a lot more common in the last few years. Theres 2 in Wexford town, They are members only, but i think you get free chips to the value of the membership fee (€10 or something), so its membership is really just a formality.


  • #80
    jonnybravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭jonnybravo


    marathont wrote: »
    I dont know the rules, but casinos seem to be a lot more common in the last few years. Theres 2 in Wexford town, They are members only, but i think you get free chips to the value of the membership fee (€10 or something), so its membership is really just a formality.

    Yeah I was thinking that the membership was only a way to get around the rules but I'm wondering would they be able to do it on a large scale basis as invisaged in Tipp or would the law have to change to facilate the casino.

    If the law has to change then that'll probably be Lowry's key role. I doubt Lowry would have put his name behind it if the law has to be changed and the government won't do it.


  • #81
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    This is the proposed road network improvement to M8 junction 5 and the R639 to facilitate the development. It's severely underpowered for a large-scale event.
    tippvenueoveralllayout.jpg

    I've been looking through the various objection documents lodged against the Tipperary Venue. The one from the NRA is impressive:

    1/8
    nra1.jpg

    2/8
    nra2.jpg

    3/8
    nra3.jpg

    4/8
    nra4.jpg

    5/8
    nra5.jpg

    6/8
    nra6.jpg

    7/8
    nra7.jpg

    8/8
    nra8.jpg

    A decision is due mid-November.


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  • #82
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    thats a long document from the NRA and on my laptop very hard to read
    can you summarise in a few sentences what they dont like???


  • #83
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    thats a long document from the NRA and on my laptop very hard to head
    can you summarise in a few sentences what they dont like???

    1. The NRA does not believe that an improvement to J5 is the best option. They would favour using junctions 4 and 6 instead.

    2. There is an error in the developer's traffic number forecasts for J5 if that were to be used. The developer has underestimated the number of vehicles and has misjudged the nature of likely traffic movements.

    3. The developer has over-estimated the likely usage of public transport by Tipperary Venue patrons.

    4. The developer has not given enough consideration to the overall affect of the Tipperary Venue on national roads.

    5. The developer's methodology in forecasting traffic movements is flawed, and has not taken into account the difference in the behaviour displayed by incoming traffic (which tends to arrive over a prolonged period) and outgoing traffic (which tends to depart a venue simultaneously, causing serious queueing).

    6. The developer has not considered the deleterious affect that traffic queues would have if and when they spill over onto the M8 mainline.

    7. The NRA is concerned about the proposed helicopter landing site and its possible impact on the safety of M8 users.

    8. The NRA is prepared to discuss the matter with all concerned but, on the basis of the information submitted thusfar, must object to the traffic management plan.


  • #84
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    I would tend to agree with the NRA ......
    BUT
    This development is not as if its the south ring in cork or that, in that its not adding pressure to any one of the nations already most chronically congested roads.

    This is the one of the quietest areas of the irish motorway network and is only due to be under pressure a few hours every few months.

    I dont see the slip roads being adequate for those leaving an event, they may congested for a few hours, but who cares.
    Evil roundabouts will reap their revenge. Event goers will have a nightmare.
    Nevertheless, the ones at the event will suffer and not the normal motorist!!! You will still be able to zoom from Dubin to Cork in no time.
    Happy days!!!

    So I'd be one to say let it progress and let the event atendees suffer. The greater good still will not be damaged. (thanks to the ineptitude of the local traffic management)


  • #85
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    I would tend to agree with the NRA ......
    BUT
    This development is not as if its the south ring in cork or that, in that its not adding pressure to any one of the nations already most chronically congested roads.

    This is the one of the quietest areas of the irish motorway network and is only due to be under pressure a few hours every few months.

    I dont see the slip roads being adequate for those leaving an event, they may congested for a few hours, but who cares.
    Evil roundabouts will reap their revenge. Event goers will have a nightmare.
    Nevertheless, the ones at the event will suffer and not the normal motorist!!! You will still be able to zoom from Dubin to Cork in no time.
    Happy days!!!

    So I'd be one to say let it progress and let the event atendees suffer. The greater good still will not be damaged. (thanks to the ineptitude of the local traffic management)

    I think if the NRA can come up with a better option or, rather, make the developer come up with a better option and pay for it as well, then that should be what happens. Several hundred cars queueing on the M8 and clogging up one lane isn't acceptable, particularly when it's all to effectively make a profit for Quirke and his investors. I say if he wants to use the M8, fine. But he'd better make sure he doesn't congest the road. If he can spend who knows how much on a replica White House, he can build a proper access to the M8 too.

    By the way, the proposed retail section of the development has been severley cut back so as not to undermine the viability of shops in Thurles and Cashel.


  • #86
    beagga
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭beagga


    I see in the further info they have summitted (thanks for the link Furet) that this is a proposed road layout
    111.jpg


  • #87
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    They have a free-flowing lane appended to the southbound off-ramp if you look closely, but no corresponding one on the northbound on-ramp, which seems to be one of the many things that's prompted the NRA to object. On a "major event" day (defined as 15,000 visitors), junction 5 could never cope, let alone the little N75 to Thurles. The NRA did call for a Traffic Impact Assessment to take account of the N62 (Thurles to Athlone) road as well. Thurles town itself cannot cope with the regular volumes of traffic that this would bring in my opinion. A standard 2 lane bypass is planned for the N62 around Thurles and is at the route selection phase (with a decision due in December or January).
    Also, the Tipp Venue is essentially appropriating the R639. Still, North Tipp Co Co seem all in favour, and as they (I think) have jurisdiction over the road, it shouldn't be a problem.


  • #88
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    The greatest load of bollox I have ever read.

    There is no need for it and it stinks of rural/local business interests trying to create a utopian event centre in a part of Ireland that doesn't need/want or even fully understand it. Obviously conceived during a time when any blade of grass in Ireland was fair game for any madcap scheme.

    The catholic church did this crap with Knock airport 30 years ago. It was built and now has more western birds heading off to the sun for a casual shag than it has holy pilgrimmes jetting in to chew the ass off the shrine in Knock.

    Las Vegas is successful for a reason. Maybe Dr. Quirkey should study the history of WHY.

    I'll carry on laughing.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


    Note to mods: Please feel free to edit as appropriate.


  • #89
    Squeaksoutloud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Squeaksoutloud


    I see the Tipperary Venue has been given the go-ahead:

    http://www.examiner.ie/breakingnews/business/460m-cultural-and-leisure-centre-gets-go-ahead-in-tipperary-480006.html


  • #90
    yermanoffthetv
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭yermanoffthetv


    Tipp Venue on the sixone news tonight http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1083853 Jump to 44 minutes for the report.


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  • #91
    michaelm
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭michaelm


    Did I take this up right from the news report this evening?

    (a) 80% of the visitors to the venue will be from overseas

    (b) The casino will not go ahead until there is legislitive change

    (c) Work will commence in the Spring

    I am assuming the overseas visitors will only travel for the casino, it is unlikely they will jet in for racing - either dog or horse. I don't get it!


  • #92
    Aidan1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Aidan1


    Simple really, North Tipp CC have just handed the developer a huge lever to use on the Govt to force a change in the law on the basis that 'why is the Minister holding up this valuable development that'll give loads o jobs'.

    As I may have mentioned before, the other investments are all contingent on the casino being built - they have to be, given the scale. The 'grassroots campaign' to grant a licence will start shortly.


  • #93
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I attended the public meeting in the Horse and Jockey this evening. A seriously impressive presentation was given by a very articulate man who spoke about the design and planning issues. Much of the focus was on the horse racing circuit AND the equestrian centre, which are two different things. A man from the horse sport industry (different to the racing industry) claimed the Tipp Venue (TV) would allow the country to plug into aspects of the global horse industry we've never even been close to. He mentioned a horse event that took place in Aachen in 2006 worth almost €250 million to the local economy there.

    The Hoban Memorial was discussed too in a manner which actually managed to make it sound the polar opposite of tacky.

    Quirke has recently bought even more land and, apparently, more applications for unspecified other buildings will be made in due course.

    Michael Lowery was feted. He gave a typical, vague talk about casino licensing, and emphasised that aspects of the TV can be built - and will be totally viable - even without the legislation.

    Works will start on delivering the necessary infrastructure before the buildings, but no timescale was mentioned.

    And, most importantly, delicious sandwiches were served after business had concluded. :D


  • #94
    annfield1978
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 569 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    the guy giving the presentation is the same as the voiceover on the youtube link mentioned above


  • #95
    beagga
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭beagga


    Of course work will start as soon as an bord pleanala are finished because dont we all know that someone will have a problem with a development this size and hold it up for at least another year or so.


  • #96
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    A typical and historically proven, recession based proposal the size of dinosaur ****e.

    Phoenix Park casinos and stadiums. Clondalkin stadiums with Wimbledon FC playing there. Eircom Park. Blah blah blah etc etc. They were in a city. This kip is in the middle of nowhere.

    Mr. Duggan built his Millstreet empire under the radar. Mr. Reynolds gave him a Eurovision because he was a "party person". A few years were milked from it until the rest of the world realised it was a no mans land. End of Millstreet.

    This will come to absolutely nothing.


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  • #97
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,193 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    beagga wrote: »
    Of course work will start as soon as an bord pleanala are finished because dont we all know that someone will have a problem with a development this size and hold it up for at least another year or so.

    I agree. I reckon the NRA for one will go to ABP as per the objection Furet posted in post #81.


  • #98
    jonnybravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 573 ✭✭✭jonnybravo


    I can't see the Planning Issues stopping this. It might delay them but I don't think there is any issue that could stop it completely or hold it up for years. I think the two major obstacles to this going ahead are;

    1) Lack of change to gambling laws;
    2) Lack of funding to build this. I read that Quirke has put in e30m of his own money into this so far and is willing to put in another e40m to start the works but there's still a big wad of money to be found.


    I do hope this goes ahead as Tipperary and Thurles in particular is a dead zone for jobs and this will only get worse when the mines close in a few years.


  • #99
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    jonnybravo wrote: »
    I can't see the Planning Issues stopping this. It might delay them but I don't think there is any issue that could stop it completely or hold it up for years. I think the two major obstacles to this going ahead are;

    1) Lack of change to gambling laws;<snip>
    not a problem

    Mr Lowry the local independent TD is almost part of the consortium, and now that McDaid has resigned from the Dail, he along with Healy Rae is keeping the government in office.

    The government might be extra nice to him and change all manner of laws regarding casinos/ gambling to ensure that the budget goes through next month :rolleyes:


  • #100
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I don't get how this is going to work, How are they going to get the tourists in to begin with? Cork and Shannon Airports are both an hour and a half drive (give or take). For the likes of this place to take off you need access to an Airport (like Las Vegas) and have it well served by a mix of low cost carriers (Ryanair) and some long Haul carriers to bring in the longhaul tourist.

    This has to be the biggest load of hogwash I have ever heard of really, non-one is interested in Horse racing in Ireland bar an elite of say 100,000 people, gambling, nite clubs, relaxed licencing laws, adult entertainment these things are appealing to the mass market and they could make a go of it if they situated it close an airport and play it up with the Oirsh reputation for drinking partying hard. Horse racing on the other hand - how boring can you get!


  • #101
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,551 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Somehow getting a 6am licence for nightclubs would be a guaranteed revenue bringer, as people would bus to it from very long distances, as well as rental revenue from pretty much every dance music promoter on the island.

    Anyone who's familiar with the bussing of vast volumes of people to the few long-opening (2:30 being very late!) clubs in Northern Ireland could see a comparable situation.


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