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The Tipperary Venue: major plans for sport & culture complex off M8 Junction 5

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 xisarouf


    'TRAINER Aidan O'Brien believes that a proposed €50m racecourse for North Tipperary could become a Breeders' Cup facility'

    Where would the Breeders Cup style prize money cone from, Tote Ireland, HRI?

    Driving through Thurles the other day I saw Dr.Quirkeys stickers all over abandonded factorys, is this the first shove to winf the hearts and minds of the locals?

    Casino, Casino, Casino.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    :confused: Huh, maybe I'm missing something here, but going to Thurles/Two-Mile Borris from Limerick via the M7/M8 would be insane, even if the junction was fixed

    Well the alternatives are a really crap regional road (R503) between Limerick and Thurles or Limerick-Nenagh-(soon to be M7)-Borrisoleigh-Thurles, using the R498.

    Limerick to Two-Mile Borris via the R503/N75 is about 75km, Limerick-Nenagh-Borrisoleigh-Thurles is about 90km (about 45km on M7).

    You can use either those routes or Limerick-Tipp Town-Dundrum-Thurles (ca. 80km), again using fairly crappy roads.

    Any of these routes would take about one hour, assuming no delays in Thurles or en route.

    The M7/M8/N75 route would be longer (ca. 130km) but would probably take about the same time since you'd be travelling at motorway speed for most of the journey.


  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭ bacon&cabbage


    Well the alternatives are a really crap regional road (R503) between Limerick and Thurles or Limerick-Nenagh-(soon to be M7)-Borrisoleigh-Thurles, using the R498.

    Limerick to Two-Mile Borris via the R503/N75 is about 75km, Limerick-Nenagh-Borrisoleigh-Thurles is about 90km (about 45km on M7).

    You can use either those routes or Limerick-Tipp Town-Dundrum-Thurles (ca. 80km), again using fairly crappy roads.

    Any of these routes would take about one hour, assuming no delays in Thurles or en route.

    The M7/M8/N75 route would be longer (ca. 130km) but would probably take about the same time since you'd be travelling at motorway speed for most of the journey.

    I think we'll agree to differ on this one ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭ Sigma Force


    While the road from Dub to Twomileborris is pretty good there is a fierce jam in Abbeyleix every day it's a nightmare, aparently they are working on that part of the motorway either way something would have to be done to by pass it. Then there's the Limerick route it's a real pain driving from Limerick to there all the roads getting to the venue would have to be spot on.
    A lot of being worked on but seem to be taking forever to complete.

    If it happens it happens it a matter of wait and see, there is a huge need for something new and different in the area. Not a fan of the racing industry though but the area is racing mad as it is so that won't change.

    Job wise 2,000 upon completion as a lot of local buisness have died and a lot aren't doing too well. Not to mention the local mine being for sale, it should benifit the locals.

    How much of an environmental impact will this place have, we are loosing are green fields and hedgerows by the acre it no longer feels like the countryside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭ marmurr1916


    I think we'll agree to differ on this one ;)

    Fair enough. ;)

    I prefer driving longer distances on faster, better-quality roads than shorter distances on slower, poorer-quality roads.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭✭ tipptop2008


    xisarouf wrote: »
    'TRAINER Aidan O'Brien believes that a proposed €50m racecourse for North Tipperary could become a Breeders' Cup facility'

    Where would the Breeders Cup style prize money cone from, Tote Ireland, HRI?

    Driving through Thurles the other day I saw Dr.Quirkeys stickers all over abandonded factorys, is this the first shove to winf the hearts and minds of the locals?

    Casino, Casino, Casino.

    Quirke owns that site too - thats the reason the signs are outside the factory. It used to be the Erin Foods factory.

    For the person who was talking about Abbeyleix this bypass should be opened around the middle of next year so that problem will be solved long before it opens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Apparantly the site is at Turnpike on the old N8 (now the R639) on the right-hand-side of that road as one heads for Dublin. He's already bought over 100 acres there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,749 ✭✭✭✭ JupiterKid


    This all sounds like a typical Irish pipedream to me. The White House "replica" seems especially cringeworthy and tacky. Why don't they go the whole hog and built a South Fork replica while they're at it too?:rolleyes:

    I suspect the developers are planning for one or two elements to eventually get the green light by the planners (such as the race course) and the rest will be quietly dropped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭✭✭ wjc


    People are losing sight of the fact that project depends on legislation change on casinos. Without casino,the project will not go ahead. Developers have made this clear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭ asdasd


    We could declare Tipperary a reservation.

    I too think that the whole proposal is a pipedream, but it may work if the gambling is allowed. However we have to get away from the middle of nowhere attitude we used to have in the days before the motorways. Anywhere on the M8 as far as Tipp is a day trip from Dublin/Leinster, as it is from Cork/ Munster Its not 1928, or 1992 ( where the roads were not that different).

    Once the Abbelyleix motorway is finished this is close to Dublin. Tipp is central not the bad lands. Such is the nature of mWays. Towns grew up along the M4 corridor in the UK.

    I dont see that happening in Ireland, but towns on the route or just off it are commutable to Dublin and Cork. In fact you could live in Tipp and commute to either, giving you choice when changing jobs.

    (Having said that I may now look at Tipperary property!).


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 Chris_533976


    But in each case its nice and quick to get TO Dublin and Cork, but thats different from getting INTO Dublin and Cork.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭ asdasd


    True but a lot of jobs are on, or just off, the M50, and the Cork equivalent. Whatever that is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    I have the PDF brochure on my computer but at 2.8MB, boards won't allow me to upload it.

    EDIT: PM me with your email address if you'd like me to send it to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭ serfboard


    wjc wrote: »
    People are losing sight of the fact that project depends on legislation change on casinos. Without casino,the project will not go ahead. Developers have made this clear.

    Yes, and it's not the first time that developers have promised all sorts of great facilities, so long as they can stick in "a bit of an oul' casino" as well.

    Except, in this case it's a 6,000 sq. m. casino :eek:

    I'm interested to see that Michael Lowry is involved in it as well. It's bound to be an undertaking of the highest integrity with him on board.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    Brochure can be downloaded here...

    One notable quote:
    Immediate access to the N8 primary road, and the M8, two-lane motorway


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 archtech


    A good few submissions on the planning file no matter what decision is made, I expect its going to be appealed to An Bord Pleanala.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    From that:
    Provision of new 4-arm roundabout on R639 to serve proposed develop. Provision of emergency only access rd. with priority junction onto R639. vi) Link Rd. to connect R639 (via new 3-arm roundabout) to recently constructed Two Mile Borris Grade Separated Junction on M8 & construct 2No. slip lanes to complete the diamond interchange. Widening of approaches to roundabouts at Two Mile Borris Interchange to allow two way flow. Segregated left turn lane (on existing southbound diverge) to allow traffic to join proposed Lind Rd in a free flow manner. Termination of existing accommod. rd (on sth. side of new Link Rd) & new access onto northern side of link rd. for exist. accomm. rd.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 BluntGuy


    One has to wonder why the junction wasn't finished in the first place. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Assuming all of the developments go ahead and are built and draw the expected crowds, do people think a diamond interchange will be sufficient, or should it be free-flow?


  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭ ShaneIRL


    archtech wrote: »
    A good few submissions on the planning file no matter what decision is made, I expect its going to be appealed to An Bord Pleanala.


    Anyone have any update on this?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ CerebralCortex


    Why chose an area like Tipperary? Why not put where it could have an additive effect like Limerick? Where there is also a substantial population. It reminds me of the proposed Athlone development for the Chinese.


  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭ ShaneIRL


    Why chose an area like Tipperary? Why not put where it could have an additive effect like Limerick? Where there is also a substantial population. It reminds me of the proposed Athlone development for the Chinese.

    Well Tipperary now has Motorways through to Dublin (approx 80mins) and Cork (approx 75mins) and is also extremely close to both Limerick and Waterford. Plus Richard Quirke is Tipperary Born and together with its good location is being loyal to his native county.

    Looking forward to this one happening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Planning decision due on 12 August last I heard from someone in the Tipperary forum. The location is good in my opinion. In terms of proximity to Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and Dublin, Tipp is a good choice. Cork is only about 60 minutes from junction 5; Dublin 70 minutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ CerebralCortex


    Furet wrote: »
    Planning decision due on 12 August last I heard from someone in the Tipperary forum. The location is good in my opinion. In terms of proximity to Dublin, Limerick, Waterford and Dublin, Tipp is a good choice. Cork is only about 60 minutes from junction 5; Dublin 70 minutes.

    Good choice but it's clearly not the best choice. Right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    The location of the venue is not easily accessible from Galway at the moment. Might not be so bad going via Limerick when the M18 reaches Rathmorrissey and the M7 Limerick-Nenagh is done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    KevR wrote: »
    The location of the venue is not easily accessible from Galway at the moment. Might not be so bad going via Limerick when the M18 reaches Rathmorrissey and the M7 Limerick-Nenagh is done.

    That would be best: M18, SRR, N24, N74, M8. Of all of that the N74 is the worst road by far, but it's relatively short.

    Or: M6 to the Tullamore exit, and then down to Portlaoise and M8 southbound.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Good choice but it's clearly not the best choice. Right?

    For the developer it is the best choice. It depends on what he is trying to achieve, and what that is, it seems to me, is to create an an amenity/business in his home area. I suppose it's a bit like Sean Quinn investing in Cavan-Monaghan. I do think, too, that Tipperary is a good place to have a top-class horse-racing and greyhound racing track, as well as golf course. Why? Because such developments are in keeping with the "culture" of the area. Now, there are things that I regard as outlandish (the replica White House), but the concert venue too seems to me to be okay. So really I think the idea is well sited, and I don't think there's any harm in having it there whatsoever. It's private money after all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 KevR


    Furet wrote: »
    That would be best: M18, SRR, N24, N74, M8. Of all of that the N74 is the worst road by far, but it's relatively short.

    On the few occasions I have driven to Thurles in the past I have gone Loughrea, Portumna, Nenagh and then the R498 to Thurles. If I'm not mistaken, the R498 isn't too bad; the road from Loughrea to Nenagh is a lot worse. So a decent option in the future might be: M18 to Limerick, Tunnel & SRR, M7 to Nenagh and the R498 from there.
    Furet wrote: »
    Or: M6 to the Tullamore exit, and then down to Portlaoise and M8 southbound.

    Was in a massive queue of traffic stuck behind a tractor driving at 5kmh all the way from Mountmellick to Tullamore on Friday. I was actually sorry that I didn't go via the Dublin Outer Ring Road for my Newbridge-Galway journey!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    KevR wrote: »
    On the few occasions I have driven to Thurles in the past I have gone Loughrea, Portumna, Nenagh and then the R498 to Thurles. If I'm not mistaken, the R498 isn't too bad; the road from Loughrea to Nenagh is a lot worse. So a decent option in the future might be: M18 to Limerick, Tunnel & SRR, M7 to Nenagh and the R498 from there.

    Looks like you're right. I hadn't considered R routes at all :o


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭ Amtmann


    Tipp Venue Hold Up Rumours Scotched

    Published Date: 19 August 2010
    By Staff Reporter
    By: Anne O'Grady

    A report at the weekend that archaeologists working on the M8 motorway have discovered evidence of settlements which will scupper the 460 million euro Tipperary Venue at Two-Mile-Borris have been rejected this week by Independent T.D., Mr. Michael Lowry.

    The report in a Sunday newspaper maintained that archaeologists had discovered a 5,000 year old settlement beside the proposed site of the development, as well as 19 medieval skeletons.

    It was stated that officials at the Department of the Environment had written to North Tipperary County Council as a consequence stating the planning permission could not be approved until a proper archaeological excavation of the site was carried out.

    However, Mr. Lowry stated this week that a preliminary survey and dig had resulted in what could possibly be evidence to suggest a settlement but the actual location was outside the main planning area.

    He maintained that the find did not interfere with any of the proposed construction and said the Council and promoter, Mr. Richard Quirke, had already agreed that a professional archaeologist would be appointed to oversee all works on the site as and when they happened.

    Continued Page 6

    And, the project’s Architect, Mr. Brian O’Connell has stated that the nature of the settlement is that there is evidence of “pit fires” having been lit. That, he said, was the only evidence found on the site. “A number of small pit fires were found but not on any of the site that interferes with the development”.

    Mr. O’Connell stated that there was a general policy that an archaeological investigation was not carried out during crop time and when harvests were completed these were undertaken. The harvest, he said, had now been completed on the site on the other side of the M8 and the investigation was now being carried out and would be lodged. “That is by agreement with the planners”, he said.

    Contacted by the “Tipperary Star” this week, a spokesman for the Department of the Environment stated that further information had been requested by the planning authority on 21st of December last. The request for further information had required the preparation and submission of an archaeological assessment report in advance of a planning decision.

    “The required archaeological assessment has not been completed on site to date and no detailed report has been submitted for comments. The further information submission includes an “archaeological assessment progress report” prepared by Margaret Gowen & Co. Ltd.

    which notes that a geophysical survey was carried out on site on 13th July 2010 and that “the report on the geophysical survey will issue in the next couple of weeks.” The progress report also notes that a licence application for archaeological testing was submitted to the Department of the Environment, Heritage & Local Government and National Museum of Ireland on 15th July 2010”.

    However, the Department said, the request for further information clearly stated that “having completed the work, the archaeologist should submit a written report to the Planning Authority and to the Department of the Environment, Heritage & Local Government, assessing any impact the development may have on archaeological material/features.” No such detailed archaeological assessment report has been submitted in response to the request for further information”.

    The Department said the applicant should be requested to submit the required archaeological assessment report in response to the request for further information.

    An archaeological assessment progress report was not considered to be a sufficient response to the request for further information.

    “It is our view that a final decision should not be made on this application until the Planning Authority and this office has had the opportunity to evaluate the Archaeological Assessment. We will forward a recommendation based on the Archaeological Assessment to the Planning Authority”, it added.

    However, Mr. Lowry stated that as part of their pre-planning preparation, the Council had requested that a preliminary survey and dig be conducted on the whole site and at one point they had come across what could possibly be evidence to suggest a settlement.

    The actual location, he said, was outside the main planning area and it did not interfere with any of the proposed construction. “They found it on a part that would be a green area or a carparking area. Nothing will happen within ten metres of that area”.

    Mr. Lowry said the Council and the promoter had agreed that a professional archaeologist would be appointed to oversee all works on the site as and when they happened.

    “The Council will be conditioning the application to deal with all archaeology matters and a professional archaeologist will be appointed to oversee the work on the site when it happens”.

    Asked if he was confident that the development would proceed, he stated that he was. “The scale, scope and sheer magnitude of the planning application means that an enormous amount of consultation has gone on with representatives of various elements, sections of the Council and outside bodies, including the NRA. There has been a huge level of contact and consultation”.

    Mr. Lowry said in all these matters issues would arise and a lot had already been resolved. Any issue which remained would be part of the planning conditions set down by the Council.

    His estimation was that it was progressing well and there had been a great level of co-operation between all the various agencies.

    Asked the anticipated starting date of the development, the Independent T.D. said planning permission was due in September and it would be “all systems go” after that. The design team were at an advanced stage of planning, which was the civil engineering works, he added.
    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/Tipp-Venue-Hold-Up-Rumours.6480796.jp?articlepage=1


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