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Jesus Christ

1356

Comments

  • #62
    Korvanica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭Korvanica


    I found this pretty interesting...


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBGwBcXG448


    Part 2

    Part 3


  • #63
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Why are all of the accounts we have from both historians (who weren't believers) during the first century, and the New Testament accounts both in contradiction with this then? (And in harmony for the most part with each other)
    Huh?


  • #64
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Biggins wrote: »
    Had he been any one of these or a mixture, yet again there is no way he could have been the current image that is propagandised by current white only thinkers...
    Again, we don't know exactly what he was but we can be nearly sure given the above reasons and many more, what he wasn't - and thats the image you probably see all around you in western civilisation.

    You're misjudging something. Jesus was often portrayed like a local where His message was carried. Thus in western civilisation Jesus will be portrayed quite often as caucasian, if you go to the Far East, Jesus will often be portrayed as an Asian, in Africa as African, in the South Pacific as a Pacific Islander etc etc.


  • #65
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Biggins wrote: »
    Huh?

    Tactius, Josephus, Pliny the Younger amongst other sources wrote about Jesus' crucifixion being under Pontius Pilate. The Babylonian Talmud a Jewish text written in the 2nd century also backs up the view that Jesus was put to death for blasphemy during Passover.

    There is nothing to suggest that the disciples turned against Jesus, or that Jesus was infact killed by them. The theorising that people do which is apparently "more likely", really isn't when one reviews what we do know historically about Him.

    Most historians are also in agreement that Jesus was buried on the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

    Where there is disagreement is surrounding the Resurrection.

    I also see that another user has posted the Zeitgeist documentary which was refuted about 3 years ago!


  • #66
    eightyfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    prinz wrote: »
    Thus in western civilisation Jesus will be portrayed quite often as caucasian

    Aye, the ould Bee Gee Jesus.
    Tommy Tiernan mentioned him.
    prinz wrote: »
    if you go to the Far East, Jesus will often be portrayed as an Asian, in Africa as African, in the South Pacific as a Pacific Islander etc etc.

    Does anyone have any links to Asian/African portraits of Jesus?


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  • #67
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    You're misjudging something. Jesus was often portrayed like a local where His message was carried. Thus in western civilisation Jesus will be portrayed quite often as caucasian, if you go to the Far East, Jesus will often be portrayed as an Asian, in Africa as African, in the South Pacific as a Pacific Islander etc etc.
    All very true however IF Yahweh existed, I was referring to his actual historical and genetic background.
    Not propagandised version many have spun, for personal, cultural and/or agenda reasons.


  • #68
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Kasabian wrote: »
    Prove it :)

    I don't have to.
    The complete lack of evidence supporting his existence does that for me.
    He only exists as a form of faith.


  • #69
    Terry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Aye, the ould Bee Gee Jesus.
    Tommy Tiernan mentioned him.



    Does anyone have any links to Asian/African portraits of Jesus?
    http://www.google.ie/images?q=black+jesus&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=619&uss=1


  • #70
    Hector Mildew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Hector Mildew


    ElaElaElano wrote: »
    You could say it's 'hip and edgy' to be an atheist. I would say it's people enlightening themselves with common sense after generations of fearful oppression from the church.

    not to mention throwing the baby out with the filthy bathwater :)


  • #71
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Biggins wrote: »
    Ok, yet another book version of the bible then.
    That solves everything.

    Solves nothing at all if you don't read it.

    Do you want me to call around and read it aloud to you whilst you sit in your rocking chair?

    I get the feeling that books aren't your favourite thing.


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  • #72
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Dudess wrote: »
    Yeah I believe he existed - just a dude though, perhaps with some sort of neurological defect, if a decent guy.

    He wasn't as cool as Brian though!


  • #73
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    eightyfish wrote: »
    Does anyone have any links to Asian/African portraits of Jesus?


    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/ChineseJesus.jpg

    http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/african_christian_art/jesus_africa.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/african_christian_art/jesus_africa.html&usg=__avXgrcbmAuI9rvI7fhtCi5cdaJQ=&h=350&w=244&sz=33&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=a0wso5SSkGtCFM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=84&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dafrican%2Bjesus%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_sLNvacM7ZqE/SuCqLOcIEJI/AAAAAAAAAA0/BAWJMHx9K5E/s320/african+jesus.jpg

    Etc


  • #74
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    topper75 wrote: »
    Solves nothing at all if you don't read it.

    Do you want me to call around and read it aloud to you whilst you sit in your rocking chair?

    I get the feeling that books aren't your favourite thing.

    LOL I guess thats one Kindle and two Sony E-readers wasted then that I bought.

    Sorry, I do read books. A LOT.
    The only difference is I tend to assess whats fiction and whats not.
    So yet another version of another bible is not going to put forth anything new or substantiate further any proof that lies only in the mind of the latest writer.


  • #75
    prinz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Biggins wrote: »
    All very true however IF Yahweh existed, I was referring to his actual historical and genetic background.
    Not propagandised version many have spun, for personal, cultural and/or agenda reasons.

    The actual genetic background is beyond doubt. The notion that there is a conspiracy to white-wash Jesus is not exactly accurate, in so far as depictions changed depending on where in the world you are.


  • #76
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    prinz wrote: »
    The actual genetic background is beyond doubt. The notion that there is a conspiracy to white-wash Jesus is not exactly accurate, in so far as depictions changed depending on where in the world you are.
    Again true somewhat but they say history belongs to the victor!
    Rome won I guess - for a while!


  • #77
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    JESUS CHRIST!


    Its an alternative to saying sh*t or f*ck and if you say jaysuz bless us and saave uz you can feel like a real bogger.

    Great set of meaningless words IMO.


  • #78
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Thread needs more Jesus LOL


  • #79
    CrazyRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    1. His name wasn't 'Jesus'. That's just a bad translation of his name that stuck.

    2. His last name wasn't 'Christ' either. If I remember correctly, 'Christ' means 'Son of God'.

    3. It's amusing to hear people argue over his appearance/ethnicity. Remember, he was supposedly born through miraculous conception, and therefore wouldn't have any of Mary's or Joseph's genes. Therefore, 'God' could have made him look Japanese for all we know.

    4. Our only knowledge of the guy is from writings made by people who lived a long time after he supposedly existed. Have someone write a book about you dozens of years from now and let's see how accurately they describe you and the things you did.


  • #80
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    Have someone write a book about you dozens of years from now and let's see how accurately they describe you and the things you did.

    And therein lies the problem.


  • #81
    starlit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,349 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    "jesus in the house, jesus in the house" cool song!


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  • #82
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    snuggles285 wrote: »
    "jesus in the house, jesus in the house" cool song!
    No.


  • #83
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    snuggles285 wrote: »
    "jesus in the house, jesus in the house" cool song!
    Shush, Crystal Swing might hear and get ideas!


  • #84
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    CrazyRabbit wrote: »
    4. Our only knowledge of the guy is from writings made by people who lived a long time after he supposedly existed. Have someone write a book about you dozens of years from now and let's see how accurately they describe you and the things you did.

    The Gospels are based on eye witness testimony during Jesus' lifetime. An account of both the Crucifixion and the Resurrection of Jesus were written in 54AD (in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians), roughly 21 years after Jesus died. The first Gospel, Mark came 6 years later, and Luke short after. John came towards the end of that century.

    If Paul himself was a convert to Christianity, and was teaching the same things that were in the Gospel already, it follows that those things would have had to have been believed by the Apostles in the Christian community who shared it with him before going on his missionary tours. So that means the same Gospel was being preached far before 21 years had passed. I.E - Not that much time had passed.

    As I've mentioned already, the details are by and large consistent with other historians of around the same time period who were commenting on the origins of the Christian community.

    What is also quite interesting, is that the teachings of the Apostles despite being so far scattered across Asia Minor, Africa, and the Levant are by and large consistent both with each other, and with what we know from these historians.


  • #85
    Somnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Somnus


    I can imagine Jesus being an actual person who preached peace etc in the name of God.

    However I take the Bible to be a fictional piece of work, not truly representative of his life.So while he may have existed and been a good man I don't believe any of the miracles etc. I am an atheist though. If he did exist I don't think he was any son of God.

    There are so many religions that there can't be just one that is "right". It's just God of the Gaps. People thousands of years ago could not understand everything about the world and when something couldn't be explained it would be put down to God's work.

    That said, I respect peoples choice to believe and I think faith can bring people comfort when they are going through a tough time.
    On the other side however there are countless atrocities throughout history that were carried out in the name of various Religions.


  • #86
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jakkass wrote: »
    The Gospels are based on eye witness testimony during Jesus' lifetime. An account of both the Crucifixion and the Resurrection of Jesus were written in 54AD (in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians), roughly 21 years after Jesus died. The first Gospel, Mark came 6 years later, and Luke short after. John came towards the end of that century.

    If Paul himself was a convert to Christianity, and was teaching the same things that were in the Gospel already, it follows that those things would have had to have been believed by the Apostles in the Christian community who shared it with him before going on his missionary tours. So that means the same Gospel was being preached far before 21 years had passed. I.E - Not that much time had passed.

    As I've mentioned already, the details are by and large consistent with other historians of around the same time period who were commenting on the origins of the Christian community.

    What is also quite interesting, is that the teachings of the Apostles despite being so far scattered across Asia Minor, Africa, and the Levant are by and large consistent both with each other, and with what we know from these historians.

    Aren't you leaving out a few bits there.....?


  • #87
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    Aren't you leaving out a few bits there.....?

    Tell me what I am leaving out?


  • #88
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Tell me what I am leaving out?

    That some Gospels are largely copied from others, for starters.


  • #89
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    That some Gospels are largely copied from others, for starters.

    There is a hypothesis that all are based on a Q source. Q from the German is Quelle, or source. However, this source doesn't exist, and it is about as likely that this Q is a common factor. Or their common experience with Jesus, even if they are all based on the Q source, the authorship of the Gospels of Luke and John in particular can be traced back to them in particular. John from the writings of Iraneus, and Luke from the writings of Paul and Acts.

    And even still if they are copied from a hypothetical Q source, even then the writings of Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude and so on are consistent with each other despite how spread apart they were.


  • #90
    WIZE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,597 ✭✭✭WIZE


    If Jesus was a Jew . Why are Catholics not Jews


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  • #91
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ....And we are back on the roundabout again....


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