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Report on attitudes to travellers published.

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Comments

  • #212
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It is amazing that travellers are allowed to call settled people "buffers" but if a traveller is called a tinker( not relevant these day as they have found a new trade) or a knacker(as before)?

    Why is this?


  • #213
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    billy the squid wrote: »
    I would be interested in surveying the same publicans to see how many have staff being paid !under the table! to avoid PAYE and whatnot.

    You do realise there is a difference between a bar worker and a publican?


  • #214
    billy the squid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It is amazing that travellers are allowed to call settled people "buffers" but if a traveller is called a tinker( not relevant these day as they have found a new trade) or a knacker(as before)?

    Why is this?

    the difference is that one is an insult and the other is a translation.


  • #215
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    billy the squid wrote: »
    If they are impossible to tell from other Irish people then how do you discriminate against the?

    Also the language of Cant is shared by Travellers.

    Travellers also see themselves as separate ethnically from "buffers."

    Cant should probably be considered more a dialect rather than a full fledged language.

    Also it does'nt matter if Travellers see themselves as ethnically different because that isn't enough to make it so.


  • #216
    billy the squid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Cant should probably be considered more a dialect rather than a full fledged language.

    Also it does'nt matter if Travellers see themselves as ethnically different because that isn't enough to make it so.

    Seeing ones self as ethnicly different is in addition to the points which were referred to no more than two posts up. I did not see any need to restate something that had been said already.


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  • #217
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Cant should probably be considered more a dialect rather than a full fledged language..

    One could say the same about Ulster-Scots, Slovak and even Irish
    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    They share the same religion, language, territory, nationality and physical appearance (?) as other Irish people.

    Really ???

    And which religion would this be ?


  • #218
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    billy the squid wrote: »
    snyper wrote: »
    Nice arguement on TV.

    Sadly in reality travellers have the highest % of their commnity in prison than any other.

    The same could be said for the black community in the United States. what is your point?



    One anecdote does not constitute a verdict on an entire ethnic group.



    Again, you are assuming that travellers have a monopoly on thievery, hate to burst your bubble here, but they don't.



    See my comment above.

    Give it a week or two and there will be a thread in here about the Roma.

    The same cannot be said for the african population, yes they have a higher % of their community in prison, but not the highest, anyhow, comparsions dont make my point any less valid

    Finest pc mantra ever that one anecdote load of bollox, you trying to tellme that im trying to say i base my assumption on travellers on just one case.. please give me more credit than that.. im not making assumptions.

    Travellers dont have a monoply on thievery.. well, the esb dont have a monoply on electricity either


  • #219
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    billy the squid wrote: »
    Seeing ones self as ethnicly different is in addition to the points which were referred to no more than two posts up. I did not see any need to restate something that had been said already.

    If i decide that i'm ethnically different to other Irish people from Dublin that does'nt make it so. Just because the Travellers think they're ethnically different from other Irish does'nt automatically make it so either.

    And as i've pointed out earlier in the thread they don't really qualify as an ethnic minority either.


  • #220
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    One could say the same about Ulster-Scots, Slovak and even Irish

    I'd class Ulster-Scots as a dialect as well as it is just a dialect of English just like Cant is a Hiberno-Irish dialect like pretty much any dialect in Ireland.

    If you think Irish is just a dialect you really should read up more on the language.

    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Really ???

    And which religion would this be ?

    The main religion of Ireland is Catholicism, the religion which the vast majority of Travellers belong to.

    Of course you already know this already.


  • #221
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    What is cant? Is it basically a name for how travellers pronounce english words or is it an actual seperate language?

    Genuinely, can someone explain?


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  • #222
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    What is cant? Is it basically a name for how travellers pronounce english words or is it an actual seperate language?

    Genuinely, can someone explain?

    no.

    I cant


    :pac:


  • #223
    lynski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    fonecrusher1 wrote: »
    What is cant? Is it basically a name for how travellers pronounce english words or is it an actual seperate language?

    Genuinely, can someone explain?
    Though it is usually used to hid things from non-travellers, it would appear that Cant is considered a language, by wikipedia anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta
    I seriously doubt that there is anyone around today who could conduct their entire spoken output in it tho.
    It is much the same as the rest of us use irish when abroad - to talk about others behind their backs while in front of them


  • #224
    Ostrom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭Ostrom


    Words are formed from reverse and alternate spellings of irish works with some phonetic spelling. Girl becomes lackeen as an inversion of the first syllable of 'cailin'. There is a thread on it in anthropology.


  • #225
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    If you think Irish is just a dialect you really should read up more on the language.
    Ever heard of Scots Gaelic ?
    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    The main religion of Ireland is Catholicism, the religion which the vast majority of Travellers belong to.

    That wasnt what you said originally


  • #226
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Ever heard of Scots Gaelic ?

    Of course. The people who brought it to Scotland were Irish and Scots Gaelic effectively is Irish. I fail to see how this proves Irish itself is just a dialect.:confused:


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    That wasnt what you said originally

    I said they share the same religion as most Irish people. I assumed most people reading that post would realize that because it's obvious.


  • #227
    fonecrusher1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭fonecrusher1


    Pigeon english is not a language.


  • #228
    Lone Stone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Lone Stone


    ive never met a traveler who didnt block my door with there ****ing foot


  • #229
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    I said they share the same religion as most Irish people.

    No you didnt actually but since you subsequently clarified its probably best not to labour the point further...........?


  • #230
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    No you didnt actually but since you subsequently clarified its probably best not to labour the point further...........?

    Just for clarity here's my earlier post where i said it,
    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    Travellers can't really claim to be ethnically different to other Irish under those conditions. They share the same religion, language, territory, nationality and physical appearance as other Irish people.

    Common ancestry and history would be shared with Irish people as well.

    That leaves culture and traditions which alone would'nt merit ethnic minority status.

    but your right there's no point saying anymore than that on the matter.


  • #231
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    What was it this report stated?

    They are not an intentionally illerate and thuggish group, They are not predominately related to pensioner robbery and murder related robbery on the west of the Ireland? They are not feared on the west of the island by the settled community who actually oppress travellers. They are not involved as a 'cultural group' in wholesale crime (nationally and internationally) preying on the lesser intelligent, lesser able and older members of society.

    Did it say they are perhaps an ill understood minority group that are utterly wholesome and lovely and instead active participants in the ressurection of shakepeare in Ireland....


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  • #232
    Nuvari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Nuvari


    What a colourful display of hatred and antagonism.


    As a member of the travelling community, do people believe that I as an individual should be judged by the actions of people who have little to nothing to do with me as an individual?


    Have I by birth, lineage and culture had my worth weighted by others?


    Surely the illogical idealism that I as a individual, should be a stereotype harvested by ignorance on both sides of the social divide is something we in our modern understandings should reject?


    Nuvari


  • #233
    robbie_998
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭robbie_998


    Nuvari wrote: »
    What a colourful display of hatred and antagonism.


    As a member of the travelling community, do people believe that I as an individual should be judged by the actions of people who have little to nothing to do with me as an individual?


    Have I by birth, lineage and culture had my worth weighted by others?


    Surely the illogical idealism that I as a individual, should be a stereotype harvested by ignorance on both sides of the social divide is something we in our modern understandings should reject?


    Nuvari

    well for starters you dug up a thread that was actually dying :pac:



    no but seriously now we are not saying that all members misbehave. just a minority that are giving quite a lot a bad name.

    a bit like young male drivers etc.

    don't take offensive :)


  • #234
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,433 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Is there a new breed of philosopher travellers now?


  • #235
    Ozil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Ozil


    Only times I ever encounter them in daily life are troublesome, without fail.

    Whether it's hanging around my mothers house waiting to break in, forcing the back window with a shovel, seeing the horrific cruelty of their poor horses while driving to work, I honestly think the country would be a nicer place to live without them. Do they actually contribute ANYTHING to society? Apart from crime, tax dodging, animal cruelty and destroying areas with litter?


  • #236
    Nuvari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Nuvari


    If only such well meant, kind but rudimentary terminology was without the greater shadow of a sharp scythe of vendetta and cultural hatred.


    Dead or dying the words remain as does the reasoning and understanding that gave them form.


    I do take such things personally, which I am sure most will understand seeing that socially regardless of my personal efforts I am primarily seen as just a Traveller and when that label is one with a dissenting pattern that disregards my personal efforts it is hard not to take such things to heart.


    Politics and drama may have it's place but it is very easy to forget that there are people who not only strive to be positive and socially beneficial but crave to be a productive aspect of the whole, regardless of their origins.


  • #237
    Jordan Berbatov
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Jordan Berbatov


    Nuvari wrote: »
    What a colourful display of hatred and antagonism.


    As a member of the travelling community, do people believe that I as an individual should be judged by the actions of people who have little to nothing to do with me as an individual?


    Have I by birth, lineage and culture had my worth weighted by others?


    Surely the illogical idealism that I as a individual, should be a stereotype harvested by ignorance on both sides of the social divide is something we in our modern understandings should reject?


    Nuvari

    If your a traveller then how do you know these words?


  • #238
    Nuvari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Nuvari


    Jordan Berbatov wrote: »
    If your a traveller then how do you know these words?


    Why shouldn't I? Perhaps your expectation is somewhat narrow, as once a labels is seen as only a label, people are far more capable of raising themselves beyond such primary expectations.


  • #239
    MmmmmCheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 357 ✭✭MmmmmCheese


    When I was 9 a bag of piss was thrown in the window of our car as we drove past a halting site and hit me on the side of the head. I smelt like a flippin sewer til we got home. We called the guards. Drove past there a few days later and the little sh1ts were still there throwing bags of piss.

    Went camping in Kerry last Summer, travellers broke into my car, broke three windows, tore out the dashboard, stole the radio, stole the seatbelts sockets (the SOCKETS! why the sockets?!) and stole any valuables in the car. We phoned the guards, they said they couldnt do anything without proof, even though we saw the travellers making across the beach with the stolen things.

    Worked in a centra a few years back. The travellers that came into the shop were the rudest people I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Never a please or a thank you. Just 'give me a bag.'

    So yes, in my experience, travellers have earned any prejudice I have towards them. And I'm sure many people feel the same way.


  • #240
    karlog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭karlog


    MmmmmCheese wrote: »
    When I was 9 a bag of piss was thrown in the window of our car as we drove past a halting site and hit me on the side of the head. I smelt like a flippin sewer til we got home. We called the guards. Drove past there a few days later and the little sh1ts were still there throwing bags of piss.

    Went camping in Kerry last Summer, travellers broke into my car, broke three windows, tore out the dashboard, stole the radio, stole the seatbelts sockets (the SOCKETS! why the sockets?!) and stole any valuables in the car. We phoned the guards, they said they couldnt do anything without proof, even though we saw the travellers making across the beach with the stolen things.

    Worked in a centra a few years back. The travellers that came into the shop were the rudest people I've ever had the misfortune of dealing with. Never a please or a thank you. Just 'give me a bag.'

    So yes, in my experience, travellers have earned any prejudice I have towards them. And I'm sure many people feel the same way.

    I'm not going to tar everyone with the same brush but every experience i've had with a traveler has been a negative one. I avoid these people like the plague.


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  • #241
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    I dont believe Nuvari is a traveller.


This discussion has been closed.
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