Report on attitudes to travellers published.

The_Minister

http://news.ie.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=154064074

One in five Irish people would deny citizenship to Travellers, a new survey has found.

This result was described as “frightening” by report author Fr Michael MacGreil SJ . It marks an increase of 10 per cent over the last 20 years and shows a “growing polarisation in public attitudes towards Travellers”, he said.

He was speaking this evening as he published Emancipation of the Travelling People which monitors changes in public attitude towards Travellers over the past 35 years.

Three quarters of people would be reluctant to buy a house next door to a Traveller, the survey of over 1000 people by the ESRI in 2007 /2008 found.
This finding has increased since a similar survey 20 years ago. It indicates a “negative mood” in Irish society towards having Travellers in the immediate area, Fr Mac Greil said.

A change in the main reason for this answer changed from “not socially acceptable” in the 1988 survey to “way of life” in the 2008 survey.

This was welcomed by the author.

At almost 40 per cent, those who would welcome Travellers as a member of their family was the highest ever measured. It was triple 1988 finding.

While the percentage was still too low, it took Travellers out of the “lower-caste” status in the minds of a significant portion of people, Fr MacGreil said.

The report’s most positive finding was that three quarters of people felt that Travellers were competent to sit on a jury. This marked an increase of 20 per cent compared to 1988.

"In the folklore of travellers very little confidence in the courts because feel they are not represented" he said.

There was also a slight improvement in the number of people who would be willing to employ a Traveller, which stands at 60 per cent.

Almost three quarters of people who supported Travellers being facilitated to their own way of life, to 72 per cent, a decline of 20 per cent.

Respondents with third level occupations were least in favour of this which was “disappointing” the report said.

Solidarity between less-well off people and Travellers was revealed in the results.

Respondents in unskilled and semi-skilled occupations and those with least education were the most tolerant towards Travellers pointing to solidarity, the report said. This pointed both to class prejudice and evidence of solidarity, the report said.

Among the main recommendations of the report were the removal of the culture of poverty and depravation, creation of a unique ethnic group status and a statutory commission to review Traveller policy.

Fr Mac Greil said there needed to be a new and pluralist approach by thestate as the policy of assimilation or “settling” Travellers had not succeeded in integrating travellers into Irish society.

The findings showed a need for strong robust anti-discrimination legislation and a well-resourced body to implement it, Martin Collins of Pavee Point said.

Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs Pat Carey said that conflict resolution in the Traveller community would be his priority.

The report was based on an ESRI survey in 2007/2008 and replicates previous surveys in 1972 and 1988.

Anyone smell a pogrom?

Dave!

Justified IMO

karlog

Three quarters of people would be reluctant to buy a house next door to a Traveller............


That other quarter of people are Travellers

The_Minister

Dave! wrote: »

Justified IMO

The pogrom? :eek:

Einhard

Well it looks like attitudes have improved over the past three decades. I think travellers bear a lot of responsibility for their negative perception, and that includes the likes of Pavee Point who refuse to address the very real issues that settled society have with the travelling community. Having said that though, the fact that 20% would refuse citizenship to travellers born in the country is slightly worrying.

starbelgrade

I've never had any problems with travellers. I'm sure there'll be loads of rabble-rabble in this thread though.

Hank_Jones

Can't post my true feelings regarding travellers for fear of banning.

Let's just say I don't like them.

Same goes for scumbags...

Offy

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Can't post my true feelings regarding travellers for fear of banning.

Let's just say I don't like them.

Same goes for scumbags...

Never buy tarmac off them, or donkeys!

Dave!

Offy wrote: »

Never buy tarmac off them, or donkeys!

A donkey selling tarmac?! Those are some mighty entrepreneurial donkeys you do be seein! :eek:

Overheal

The report’s most positive finding was that three quarters of people felt that Travellers were competent to sit on a jury. This marked an increase of 20 per cent compared to 1988.

The way your justice system is heading I'd make one a Judge and call it an improvement.

on serious: how aren't they competent to sit on a jury???

amacachi

Three quarters of people would be reluctant to buy a house next door to a Traveller, the survey of over 1000 people by the ESRI in 2007 /2008 found.

So 25% of the population would have a look around a house and think "Oh great, what a lovely view of some TARDIS-like caravans this place has. I'll take it!"?

Hank_Jones

I'm trying not to be bad, but I was called for jury duty once and the majority of cases that came before the court involved travellers as the prosecuted.

Pdfile

Hank_Jones wrote: »

I'm trying not to be bad, but I was called for jury duty once and the majority of cases that came before the court involved travellers as the prosecuted.

theirs 4 different familys and 1 english group within walking distance of each other...


i know how bad they can are are when they need/want to be.

to be fair, when their settled ( given actual houses ) their grand, until the Traveller in them kicks back in...

NoHornJan

Of course there is a pogram to be smelt here, but the travellers, I think, bring it on themselves. They want to be recognised as an ethnic group, even though most of them were born in this State, are the same skin colour and can speak the same language.. They want to keep a lifestyle that the rest of us chose to leave centuries ago, and expect benefits and subsidies for the privilage of doing what if the ordinsry man on the street did, he would be arrested and fined. So there are a few reasons for a pogram to be smelt.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

The way your justice system is heading I'd make one a Judge and call it an improvement.

on serious: how aren't they competent to sit on a jury???

90% of them are involved in crime. How else would you have a Range Rover while living on the dole?

dlofnep

Travellers rented a house next door to me for a few months, never had a hint of bother with there. In contrast, the students that lived in it before and after them were satan's little spawns - always banging music, loud, obnoxious - had no respect for people who had been living on the street for nearly 30 years. Same with my aunt - travellers lived across the road from her for 15 years, never a bother with them. My cousin in New Ross had travellers living next to him for 30 years, once again never a hint of bother with them. Did I just cherrypick three convenient neighbours, or could it just be that travellers - once away from the bad elements of their community are actually decent people who just want to get along?

Give me a traveller over a bastard student anyday (says dlofnep the student).

easyeason3

Fcuking knackers. I hate them :mad:

I had them sniffing around the house a few weeks ago & have been wondering if I'll come home to an empty house ever since.


It's pathetic what they get away with. No doubt we'll have Pavee Point or some other bunch of do gooders bleating on about the 'poor' traveller people.

Nijmegen

I've had travellers encamp next to me more than once and at more than one location across a span of several decades.

Every time the crime in the area has shot up.

Every time the filth of rubbish in the place has shot up.

Every time local businesses, homes, cars, etc, have been vandalised and targeted.

One woman even had her dog stolen, and she had to convince the Gardai to go in and get it back for her...

Now, do I just have the "small minority" of travellers following me around the country or what?

Millie

I have to say my tolerance for travellers is very very low.
I continually see them giving the rest of us the two fingers but then they are the one's portrayed as "victims".
Spend the money used for these reports etc on real "victims".

If the travellers are willing to live by the social and legal confines that the rest of us live by then fair enough but until then......

robbie_998

They have a rented house next door to me and its the worst fecking thing ever... nothing but trouble...

very loud

kids left home alone,

eldest lad about 15 left to mind the 4 or 5 kids younger than him while pissed

out of his head and all locked out of the house with the few month old baby

screaming crying in the bed room.

kids tried breaking into my shed.

always out my back garden even though its surrounded by walls.

originally only meant to be 4 people in total living in the house according to
the land lord but its actually 8 or 9 of them in there !

kids sitting in bedroom window out front shouting at and slagging people as they walk by the house... swearing and what not.

i recall one of the small kids hitting a guy with a 2x4 as he walked by... didn't go down well and there was a lot of shouting.

constantly driving home at night to find a flat bed transit blocking up both their garden and mine and they refuse to move for 15 mins until their finished talking so i can't get into my drive !

i've made the decision that every time these things happen the gardai are getting called.

Jazzy

it may be all that drink ive drunk, or it may be that nothing that any government in this country ever voted for matters, but i smell bull**** right now. anyone care to disprove me wrong with numbers and anal uselessness ?

sh1tting fuk. one of you idiots has a forum called RoN? fantastic. at least it can be a summary of future idiots. rock on wayne and rock on garth

hahaha, its RaN. RaN is the name of it. i bet its mad serial. I BET IT DOESNT TOTALLY WANT IDIOTS LIKE ME THOUGH COS ITS SO SUPER GREAT ANYWAY. thats the one fantastic thing about this site, you can literally grab idiots by the fist

Cookie_Monster

One in five Irish people would deny citizenship to Travellers, a new survey has found.

does anyone else think this is quite a low figure?

At almost 40 per cent, those who would welcome Travellers as a member of their family was the highest ever measured. It was triple 1988 finding.

of course those 40% wouldn't mind, they know travellers only ever marry their close relations anyway so they can say the support it safe in the knowledge it'll never come up. :pac:

Nijmegen

i've made the decision that every time these things happen the gardai are getting called.

Good luck with that. In my experience they take an age to get to you and can't do much when they do except take a statement.

Buy some good quality webcams and set up recording on these yobs, but on your property and the public areas only, not looking into theirs.

If they regularly come into your garden, or you can record the sound of them shouting abuse at people in the street, you have something.

Gardai can only act on what they see.

um7y1h83ge06nx

one of Ireland's most valuable minorities. represent a most distinguished minority

The above has been quoted from the Irish Independent article.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-has-fostered-traveller-apartheid-2250357.html

What makes them valuable to society? It's an honest question because I'm confused. What do they give back to society and the state that makes them not only "valuable" but also "a most distinguished minority".

Chairman Meow

Nova Vast Hillbilly wrote: »

The above has been quoted from the Irish Independent article.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-has-fostered-traveller-apartheid-2250357.html

What makes them valuable to society? It's an honest question because I'm confused. What do they give back to society and the state that makes them not only "valuable" but also "a most distinguished minority".

Articles like this make me sick.

SOCIETY'S failure to emancipate Travellers must rank as "one of the most serious social embarrassments" in the State's 86 years of independence, a hard-hitting report has claimed.

WRONG. Its travellers insistence on leading a lifestyle completely at odds with a modern day society, their refusal to abide by any kid of societal etiquette, flagrant dirsregard for anyone living near them, and the ever pervasive threat of violence against anyone who dares challenge them, is whats wrong here. They arent persecuted because of their skin colour, or the fact that they live in bloody caravans, noone would care if they lived in caravans IF the areas they move to didnt turn into something resembling a rubbish tip and crime rates didnt soar wherever they go.

They demand equality and rights yet they do absolutely nothing to show that they deserve said equality. Whent hey actually start acting like human beings circa 2010 and not like some ****ing fithy degenerates theyll get my respect. Its the equivalent of demanding to be treated with respect by ****ting in your hands and smearing it all over your face.

CreepingDeath

Nova Vast Hillbilly wrote: »

What makes them valuable to society?

The report was written by Fr Michael MacGreil SJ.
Travellers are very religious, so they're valuable to his weekly collection plates.

My name is URL

starbelgrade wrote: »

I've never had any problems with travellers. I'm sure there'll be loads of rabble-rabble in this thread though.

+1

I've no doubt that many bad seeds exist within the demographic but I've never had any bad experiences with them. There does be quite a few caravans in a field close to the beach where I walk my dog during the summer months and I've parked my car there many times without a problem. Passed some of them and they've been more than courteous and willing to engage in conversation

Dyr

In all fairness, the traveller's (and their fellow travellers lol) polarised themselves by chasing a separate ethnic status to plain vanilla irish citizens.

I always looked on them as just Irish citizens and thought they should be treated as such.

"Travelers dislike the courts because they feel they're not represented..."

Eh no. Travelers dislike the courts because they're criminals.


The amount of money spent on these lads, the millions on homes being built for them that they don't even want. It's an absolute joke. How exactly do we treat them better?

They should be sent a message. Your "culture" is NOT valued, so either get with OURS or bugger off.

hidinginthebush

They smell like cabbage....









...and I hate cabbage :cool:

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

+1

I've no doubt that many bad seeds exist within the demographic but I've never had any bad experiences with them. There does be quite a few caravans in a field close to the beach where I walk my dog during the summer months and I've parked my car there many times without a problem. Passed some of them and they've been more than courteous and willing to engage in conversation

Would you be saying that if you owned the field?

My name is URL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Would you be saying that if you owned the field?

That's neither here nor there. They haven't been moved on and have been there every summer for the last 3 years at least so maybe whoever does own the field doesn't have an issue with it. I'm just sharing my own experience rather than painting them all with the same brush and calling them despicable criminals

timelessone

Anyone see the photo on page 4 of the Irish Times today and the accompanying story?

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0708/1224274266509.html)

I'd say the bar owners would have something to say about Fr. MacGreil's study.

mikemac

Mr Roe’s niece, Rachael McDonagh, heard David say, “F*** Willie and f*** his bar, I am the barman now”, and a female member of the group started clapping.

Why isn't that women being charged too? She pushed them on, incitement maybe? I don't know which she could be charged with.
She isn't blameless

Nijmegen

From the article:

He heard furniture being smashed and people calling out “Travellers’ rights”.

I've seen this before. Travellers going on about being proud to be travellers whilst doing something they know to be criminal. They're proud of it.

Defence counsel for the seven men submitted that they had expressed remorse for the incident and each had brought to court sums of money as compensation which together totalled approximately €9,000.

Add a zero before the comma and you have the damage. But travellers never pay for their mess.

TomTom

99% give the rest a bad name. I went to school with some travelers that were grand but since then I have been assulted, windows broken, car pissed all over. Had a wedding party on my front lawn using it as a boxing ring. Seen a full scale riot break out in our town. Garda being assaulted and the guy that did it being cheered. I reckon you enrole in eduacation and try be a member of sociey or you get back in your 2010 Transit and **** off with yourself over the cliffs.

It can't be just where I live as I've seen it all over the country.

rovert

robbie_998 wrote: »

They have a rented house next door to me and its the worst fecking thing ever... nothing but trouble...

very loud

kids left home alone,

eldest lad about 15 left to mind the 4 or 5 kids younger than him while pissed

out of his head and all locked out of the house with the few month old baby

screaming crying in the bed room.

kids tried breaking into my shed.

always out my back garden even though its surrounded by walls.

originally only meant to be 4 people in total living in the house according to
the land lord but its actually 8 or 9 of them in there !

kids sitting in bedroom window out front shouting at and slagging people as they walk by the house... swearing and what not.

i recall one of the small kids hitting a guy with a 2x4 as he walked by... didn't go down well and there was a lot of shouting.

constantly driving home at night to find a flat bed transit blocking up both their garden and mine and they refuse to move for 15 mins until their finished talking so i can't get into my drive !

i've made the decision that every time these things happen the gardai are getting called.

^ all a part of their culture STFU

DonJose

Had to laugh when I saw a related story in the Indo,

State 'has fostered Traveller apartheid'
SOCIETY'S failure to emancipate Travellers must rank as "one of the most serious social embarrassments" in the State's 86 years of independence, a hard-hitting report has claimed....
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-has-fostered-traveller-apartheid-2250357.html

Then further down there is another story.

€90,000 bill for repairs as brothers wreck local pub
Seven brothers were among a group of people who violently took over a pub and caused €90,000 of damage in a scene like a battle zone, a court heard yesterday...

Mr Roe said he would come down to the pub and on his way met a garda and told him of the situation. Mr Roe waited outside while the garda went inside. He heard furniture being smashed and people calling out: "Travellers' rights."
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/euro90000-bill-for-repairs-as-brothers-wreck-local-pub-2250264.html

orourkeda

timelessone wrote: »

Anyone see the photo on page 4 of the Irish Times today and the accompanying story?

(http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0708/1224274266509.html)

I'd say the bar owners would have something to say about Fr. MacGreil's study.

That couldn't be right. The poor innocent traveller community are all angels and would never dream of doing such a thing.

Then travellers complain when pub owners are somewhat hesitant about letting them drink in their pubs. You cant have it every way in life.

Cookie_Monster

€90,000 bill for repairs as brothers wreck local pub

guess the sentence anyone?

10 days - suspended.
They sure as hell won't have to pay any compensation over :mad:

genericguy

DonJose wrote: »

Had to laugh when I saw a related story in the Indo,

State 'has fostered Traveller apartheid'
SOCIETY'S failure to emancipate Travellers must rank as "one of the most serious social embarrassments" in the State's 86 years of independence, a hard-hitting report has claimed....
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-has-fostered-traveller-apartheid-2250357.html

Then further down there is another story.

€90,000 bill for repairs as brothers wreck local pub
Seven brothers were among a group of people who violently took over a pub and caused €90,000 of damage in a scene like a battle zone, a court heard yesterday...

Mr Roe said he would come down to the pub and on his way met a garda and told him of the situation. Mr Roe waited outside while the garda went inside. He heard furniture being smashed and people calling out: "Travellers' rights."
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/euro90000-bill-for-repairs-as-brothers-wreck-local-pub-2250264.html

travellers' rights? my fooking hole - how about we start by giving them the right to the same treatment as the rest of us, without pussyfooting around them and their 'customs'. remember the government coming up with a conflict resolution committee last year to stop them slashing each other with hooks and machetes? how about we treat them as equals and lock them up?

furthermore i'd send a fooking message by asking them to provide detailed accounts indicating the origin of the moneys they brought to court, where they got it, what tax was paid etc.

rovert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

guess the sentence anyone?

10 days - suspended.
They sure as hell won't have to pay any compensation over :mad:

Quite the obession with suspended sentence there.

starbelgrade

rovert wrote: »

Quite the obession with suspended sentence there.

He should be a judge. He's already a jury & excecutioner, so it'd make sense.

Nodin

Deleted User wrote: »

90% of them are involved in crime.

We really have to replace the CSO with somebodys ass - you can pull any oul figure out of it to suit ye, and it would be a fraction of the cost to run.

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

90% of them are involved in crime.

easyeason3 wrote: »

Fcuking knackers. I hate them :mad:

This a warning. From here on comments like these will result in bans.

1. If you have an allegation to make, make sure you have numbers to back you up.
2. General mudslinging will be met with extreme prejudice.

rovert

starbelgrade wrote: »

He should be a judge. He's already a jury & excecutioner, so it'd make sense.

I hope he never sits on a jury thats all Ill say.

starbelgrade

rovert wrote: »

I hope he never sits on a jury thats all Ill say.

It'd be like "12 Angry Men", only with 1 very, very angry man.

rovert

So anyway back to piling on a easy target.

ejmaztec

My family moved into a different area a few years ago, and we tried to get our young kids into a local school in the middle of the school term. The school told us that we'd have to wait until the next term started, unless of course we were travellers, in which case there would be no problem with our kids starting straight away.

If all people were treated equally, there would be an awful lot less trouble and ill-feeling.

rovert

ejmaztec wrote: »

My family moved into a different area a few years ago, and we tried to get our young kids into a local school in the middle of the school term. The school told us that we'd have to wait until the next term started, unless of course we were travellers, in which case there would be no problem with our kids starting straight away.

If all people were treated equally, there would be an awful lot less trouble and ill-feeling.

I think the reason above is a reason for trouble and ill-feeling traveller enrolement into education should be a priority.

ejmaztec

rovert wrote: »

I think the reason above is a reason for trouble and ill-feeling traveller enrolement into education should be a priority.