Opinion on Abortion in Ireland??

ronano wrote: »

jesus christ you're coir aint you

Great contribution. Anyone who has qualms about legalising abortion is a right wing, fundamentalist nut. And anyone who wishes to see the procedure legislated for is a ickle baby murderer...

I'm sick of this bs,abortion is happening,we send women off to another country to get it done which even if you think it's right or wrong shows it's happening. I really don't see on purely practical point why it shouldn't be introduced ignoring any 'moral' bs of course.


If you had a hope of actaully stopping abortion at least i could understand but you don't,it happens in ireland with resources and therapy if needed for women or you send them on a plane adding extra stress and no provisions afterwards for their mental health.

So basically, we should give up our own parliament and simply adopt the laws that are introduced elsewhere? I can see how this might save some money alright, but I'd prefer not to legislate purely on the basis that said laws exist elsewhere. Do you also propose we introduce euthanasia to save people going to Switzerland, legalise hash simply to save people going to Holland etc?

grrr grrr grrrr indeed...

Einhard wrote: »

The problem with this, and one that proponents of abortion fail to understand, is that many opponents see the unborn child as a human individual, and therefore deserving of rights. To them, it cannot be "an individual and private issue" as there are two individuals involved.

It's a vicious circle- forcing pregnancy upon a girl who's been raped could/is likely to cause her severe psychological damage, effectively ruining her life, with a high possibility of suicide; let's imagine she carries through with the birth, but the relentless feelings of shame and disgust don't subside- one year into the child's existence she kills herself. You then have a child without a mother who, at some point will learn of her/his mother's trauma, and will feel that same psychological burden that her/his mother felt- feelings of guilt perhaps, and go on living through those feelings, and all because

(a) some disgusting parasite took advantage of the mother and

(b) the institution of law, under the influence of the pro-life brigade, disabled her right to terminate that pregnancy.

That termination could have effectively saved one life, and perhaps given that life the opportunity to have children at the right time, with the right person, as opposed to potentially destroying two lives.

Abortion is bad.

Sticking one's nose in someone else's business is worse.

ElaElaElano wrote: »

It's a vicious circle- forcing pregnancy upon a girl who's been raped could/is likely to cause her severe psychological damage, effectively ruining her life, with a high possibility of suicide; let's imagine she carries through with the birth, but the relentless feelings of shame and disgust don't subside- one year into the child's existence she kills herself. You then have a child without a mother who, at some point will learn of her/his mother's trauma, and will feel that same psychological burden that her/his mother felt- feelings of guilt perhaps, and go on living through those feelings, and all because

(a) some disgusting parasite took advantage of the mother and

(b) the institution of law, under the influence of the pro-life brigade, disabled her right to terminate that pregnancy.

That termination could have effectively saved one life, and perhaps given that life the opportunity to have children at the right time, with the right person, as opposed to potentially destroying two lives.

Easily solved: Allow abortion in circumstances such as rape, incest, and where the health of the mother is genuinely at risk.

Teferi wrote: »

Abortions should be legal.

If you don't like it, don't get an abortion.

:rolleyes:

I know it's AH and all, but seriously...

lila44 wrote: »

Pro Choice.


If you think that you cannot give a child the life, and love that it DESERVES, then abort. Sorry to be so blunt.

What if you have the child and then realise you cannot give it the life and love it deserves?

I am pro life. However, I think it is acceptable to have an abortion if there is a genuine risk of death to the mother. People bring too many hypothetical situations in to whether something will happen in the future and this should be no way used to argue for or against abortion. I am curious though as to when people who are pro abortion consider it too late to abort a child? After 12 weeks? Personally, I think nothing should be done to abort the child post implantation.

argonaut wrote: »

I know you think the answer's a little crass but FWIW it's probably the best solution. It's not an issue that's going to be "solved", because it's fundamentally a matter of opinion, based on an essentialy arbitrary definition of when "life" begins.

A foetus may be entirely dependent on its host, but I would still argue that it is a living entity. I wouldn't go so far as to equate it with a child existing outside the womb, but I certainly believe it to be a form of human life, and therefore deserving of consideration in its own right when abortion is discussed.

So, yeah, the sensible thing to do is allow those who want abortions to have them and those morally opposed to choose not to have them. You could even argue that most of the debate is a waste of time. But, since we're here...

IMO, abortion's "murder" in the same way that mowing the lawn is "murder".

Well, to tell the truth, I can understand and respect different opinions when it comes to abortion, but I find the above statement somewhat callous. Do you really mean to say you equate a four month old foetus, with heartbeat, reflexes, and signs of emotion, with some blades of grass? For the record incidentally, I don't view abortion as murder either.

On a side note to the above, I always find it intriguing that when a pregnant woman dies tragically, the fact that she was carrying a child is always mentioned. For example, after the Omagh bombing, there were reports that 31 people died including two unborn children,and even now, it's common to hear that 29 died, including a pregnant woman. My point is, if the foetus is of no more value than blades of grass or, as some argue, any organ of the body, why is the death of a pregnant woman regularly treated with so much more pathos than would otherwise be the case? I think it's clear that most people view the foetus as more than a mere extension of the female form, which is interesting when one considers how those pro-choicers of syuch a persuasion reconcile it with their support for abortion.

I'm pro choice, unconditionally, and I find it a little embarassing that Ireland's so backward compared to the rest of Europe in this regard. The malign influence of the Church, I suppose.

I'd argue strongly against attempting to pigeonhole all those who hold a different opinion into a narrow, easily maligned group. I'm an atheist and I'm opposed to abortion on demand. I view it fundamentally as a moral issue, one entirely divorced from religious considerations. Also, you describe yourself as "pro-life unconditionally"- does that unconditional support include late term abortions?

lila44 wrote: »

In my opinion, after the feoatus (sp?) has developed a heart beat. Before that it is simply a bunch of cells, not able to make decisions, decide if it wants to live or die

That's not too far away from my position either. The heartbeat begins in week 3 probably quite often before the mother would show any physical signs of pregnancy.

the brain, backbone, and the cardio-vascular system – complete with a beating heart are beginning to form!

http://www.amazingpregnancy.com/pregnancy-articles/159.html