Opinion on Abortion in Ireland??

luv-eirexx

Just posted this thread to find out other people's views on abortion. It's 2010 and it is still illegal in Ireland. I don't know about anyone else but I am very glad of this.

As an 18 year old girl I hope I never have an unplanned pregnancy while I am young but stuff happens and if I ever do become pregnant I don't think I could even contemplate going over to England for an abortion. Why should that helpless baby suffer for my mistakes??

Also abortion was made illegal in the first place as it went against the Catholic Churches teachings. I know Ireland is becoming secularised and multicultural but the catholic church played a huge role in our past and still quite a large role today. It is nice to have SOME laws still in this country that reflect the faith of the majority, and not what the EU says.

I just was curious to know peoples opinion on this, pro life or pro choice in Ireland. I'm sure plenty will strongly disagree with me

brummytom

Oh God...

Indubitable

These are new and interesting topics!

A poll would be smart.

G_R

can open.... worms everywhere!

Indubitable

luv-eirexx wrote: »

It is nice to have SOME laws still in this country that reflect the faith of the majority, and not what the EU says.

The same religious institution that abuses kids?

Zombienosh

ABORT THIS THREAD

luv-eirexx

Sorry I don't mean to be annoying, I was just wondering ...

Ya a poll is a good idea:D

recylingbin

Abortions for some, none for others.

Aldebaran

Anyone care for a miniature flag?

AAAAAAAHHH

luv-eirexx wrote: »

I know Ireland is becoming secularised and multicultural but the catholic church played a huge role in our past

So did paganism. Why have we disregarded their laws?

G_R

Aldebaran wrote: »

Anyone care for a miniature flag?

is it American?

ElaElaElano

A woman's body is her own, it doesn't belong to the moralisers in the church or any other institution. Abortion is not and shouldn't be a social issue, it should be an individual and private issue based on circumstance.

Bonavox

A fetus, who is growing inside his mother's womb is under the influence it's in a safe and secure place. For a woman to decide she doesn't want the child and to kill it without it ever living in this world is murder. Simple as.

At least give the child the option of life by giving it up for adoption/fostering when it's born.

Nuggles

luv-eirexx wrote: »

It is nice to have SOME laws still in this country that reflect the faith of the majority.

Why? If you're not Catholic why should you be forced to follow a "Catholic" law.

Not that it is. Abortion is much more an argument about where life begins, is it murder or merely the removal of bothersome cells from one's body.

Aborting this thread is something I approve highly of though.

ronano

jesus christ you're coir aint you

I'm sick of this bs,abortion is happening,we send women off to another country to get it done which even if you think it's right or wrong shows it's happening. I really don't see on purely practical point why it shouldn't be introduced ignoring any 'moral' bs of course.

If you had a hope of actaully stopping abortion at least i could understand but you don't,it happens in ireland with resources and therapy if needed for women or you send them on a plane adding extra stress and no provisions afterwards for their mental health.


grrr grrr grrrr

BluesBerry

Down with this sort of thing !!!!! :P

recylingbin

ElaElaElano wrote: »

A woman's body is her own, it doesn't belong to the moralisers in the church or any other institution. Abortion is not and shouldn't be a social issue, it should be an individual and private issue based on circumstance.

I own food. It's mine. If I eat it all and deny my kid the food and he dies of hunger, is that my fault?

Mint Sauce

regardless of what laws we have or pass, and regardless of the constitution on the church not having an inluence, at the end of the day they always will

in relation to the act of abortion its self. personally i'm against it, unless in servere circumstance, ie rape, or the possible harm to the unborn child or mother should the pregnancy continue. but a mother and not forgeting her partner/husband, should be allowed to make their own mind, seek information, and travel for an abortion if they decide that route, therefore, pro choice.

my 2 cent and last comment on this thread

Nuggles

Let's hope the OP takes it up the bum, so she is never faced with this terrible decision.

luv-eirexx

Ok I just wanted peoples opinions and thanks to people who are actually giving them and not just saying " o god" or " abort this thread" ... Great contributions right there.*sarcasm*

ElaElaElano

recylingbin wrote: »

I own food. It's mine. If I eat it all and deny my kid the food and he dies of hunger, is that my fault?

It's irresponsible parenting...it's your fault for willingly bringing that child into the world if you've no intention of feeding it.

Dudess

I think it should be available as I can understand it in certain cases and very early on, I don't agree with it outside of those parameters though.

ElaElaElano wrote: »

A woman's body is her own, it doesn't belong to the moralisers in the church or any other institution. Abortion is not and shouldn't be a social issue, it should be an individual and private issue based on circumstance.

What about the father of the baby?

Bonavox wrote: »

A fetus, who is growing inside his mother's womb is under the influence it's in a safe and secure place. For a woman to decide she doesn't want the child and to kill it without it ever living in this world is murder. Simple as.

At least give the child the option of life by giving it up for adoption/fostering when it's born.

What about if it's the result of rape?

brummytom

luv-eirexx wrote: »

Ok I just wanted peoples opinions and thanks to people who are actually giving them and not just saying " o god" or " abort this thread" ... Great contributions right there.*sarcasm*

Sorry for ruining your thread so much.

I don't agree with abortion in any case, with the one exception of an ectopic pregnancy (where the principle of double effect comes into play) in all other circumstances, I see it as murder. I don't care that people hate me thinking that, to be perfectly honest.

recylingbin

ElaElaElano wrote: »

It's irresponsible parenting...it's your fault for willingly bringing that child into the world if you've no intention of feeding it.

Is it more or less responsible that I wait until the child has been born to kill it?

ElaElaElano

Dudess wrote: »

What about the father of the baby?

Well if it's your everyday happy couple who've just been careless in not using contraception for example, that's a different issue altogether. In that case it's needless and the father would have every right to his say, but my initial point was mainly from the perspective of a girl who'd been raped- I should have made that clearer, sorry.

storm2811

I'm pro choice anyway.
This kind of thing has been discussed before here and a lot of people already no my views so..

strobe

Dudess wrote: »

What about the father of the baby?

I'm just curious about that Dudess; Do you think the father should have a say, how much of a say? What about in the opposite situation where the woman wants to keep the baby but the man wants her to abort it? Same amount of a say?

magick

If a woman wants an abortion, she will get one.

Mr Benevolent

Crap poll, needs a 'neither' and 'Abortion Jaguar' option.

recylingbin wrote: »

Is it more or less responsible that I wait until the child has been born to kill it?

It's about the same.

Snowie

My personal Opinion is

Who are we to decide on some one else future for our own beliefs..
Its completely unfair that, decisions are made based on personal opinions....

When some of those people may never be in that position.
It should be up to the woman where and what happens with her and her life.
We may not be in that persons position... We don't know there position is financially etc .
I dont think there's anything wrong with abortion. I do think there something wrong with the fact that women who decide that they have no other choice but to fly to another country to have one...

While yes each time that girl walks past a mother and baby she may or may not remember her decision but its her decision and one that under the rigfht grounds can be justified. I think its every persons woman choice.

Obviously if the lady in question had a bf/husband they should have the right to be included...

Irish Guitarist

I voted pro life. Maybe you should have a third option though as I can see why a woman should have an abortion under certain circumstances, for instance if her life is at risk. I don't agree with women having an abortion because they just don't want a child. I think the likes of Sinead O'Connor is a disgrace. I've seen women (mainly Americans) in other forums say they were happily married but they had an abortion because they weren't ready to have a child. Usually everyone responds to them saying how great they are.

I definitely don't agree with aborting a child because they're going to suffer from a condition such as Downs syndrome or any other disability.

I think this thread is a lot better than ninety percent of the discussions in this forum and I don't get what's going on with the hostility.

Einhard

ElaElaElano wrote: »

A woman's body is her own, it doesn't belong to the moralisers in the church or any other institution. Abortion is not and shouldn't be a social issue, it should be an individual and private issue based on circumstance.

The problem with this, and one that proponents of abortion fail to understand, is that many opponents see the unborn child as a human individual, and therefore deserving of rights. To them, it cannot be "an individual and private issue" as there are two individuals involved.

Einhard

ronano wrote: »

jesus christ you're coir aint you

Great contribution. Anyone who has qualms about legalising abortion is a right wing, fundamentalist nut. And anyone who wishes to see the procedure legislated for is a ickle baby murderer...

I'm sick of this bs,abortion is happening,we send women off to another country to get it done which even if you think it's right or wrong shows it's happening. I really don't see on purely practical point why it shouldn't be introduced ignoring any 'moral' bs of course.


If you had a hope of actaully stopping abortion at least i could understand but you don't,it happens in ireland with resources and therapy if needed for women or you send them on a plane adding extra stress and no provisions afterwards for their mental health.

So basically, we should give up our own parliament and simply adopt the laws that are introduced elsewhere? I can see how this might save some money alright, but I'd prefer not to legislate purely on the basis that said laws exist elsewhere. Do you also propose we introduce euthanasia to save people going to Switzerland, legalise hash simply to save people going to Holland etc?

grrr grrr grrrr indeed...

luv-eirexx

It's nice to hear other's opinions on this and although I'm against abortions i'm starting to see it's a very difficult decision to make.

I also now think it should be allowed in cases of rape or where the child has no hope of surviving or puts the mothers life at risk.

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

My personal Opinion is

Who are we to decide on some one else future for our own beliefs..
Its completely unfair that, decisions are made based on personal opinions.... QUOTE

Umm I know you are arguing the case of the mother and pro choice when you wrote that but that is sort of my opinion on why abortions are wrong. Who are we to decide on someone elses future by taking it away from them through
abortion. I realise going through with a pregnancy will have a huge effect on a womans life but there is always adoption ... I dunno but going through 9 months of pregnancy seems not too bad if it means a child can live a long and happy life with their adoptive family. (sorry if you thought I was rude nit picking your post!! :0)

...[/]

ElaElaElano

Einhard wrote: »

The problem with this, and one that proponents of abortion fail to understand, is that many opponents see the unborn child as a human individual, and therefore deserving of rights. To them, it cannot be "an individual and private issue" as there are two individuals involved.

It's a vicious circle- forcing pregnancy upon a girl who's been raped could/is likely to cause her severe psychological damage, effectively ruining her life, with a high possibility of suicide; let's imagine she carries through with the birth, but the relentless feelings of shame and disgust don't subside- one year into the child's existence she kills herself. You then have a child without a mother who, at some point will learn of her/his mother's trauma, and will feel that same psychological burden that her/his mother felt- feelings of guilt perhaps, and go on living through those feelings, and all because

(a) some disgusting parasite took advantage of the mother and

(b) the institution of law, under the influence of the pro-life brigade, disabled her right to terminate that pregnancy.

That termination could have effectively saved one life, and perhaps given that life the opportunity to have children at the right time, with the right person, as opposed to potentially destroying two lives.

rainbow kirby

luv-eirexx wrote: »

Ok I just wanted peoples opinions and thanks to people who are actually giving them and not just saying " o god" or " abort this thread" ... Great contributions right there.*sarcasm*

This is AH. What did you expect?

On-topic: I'm pro-choice. Abortion should be safe, legal and rare.

tolosenc

Abortion is bad.

Sticking one's nose in someone else's business is worse.

Teferi

Abortions should be legal.

If you don't like it, don't get an abortion.

Nevyn

luv-eirexx

If you want a more serious discussion on this try the humanities forum.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=21

tolosenc

Einhard wrote: »

The problem with this, and one that proponents of abortion fail to understand, is that many opponents see the unborn child as a human individual, and therefore deserving of rights. To them, it cannot be "an individual and private issue" as there are two individuals involved.

Would there be any female opponents of abortion prepared to become a surrogate rather than have the baby aborted?

Einhard

ElaElaElano wrote: »

It's a vicious circle- forcing pregnancy upon a girl who's been raped could/is likely to cause her severe psychological damage, effectively ruining her life, with a high possibility of suicide; let's imagine she carries through with the birth, but the relentless feelings of shame and disgust don't subside- one year into the child's existence she kills herself. You then have a child without a mother who, at some point will learn of her/his mother's trauma, and will feel that same psychological burden that her/his mother felt- feelings of guilt perhaps, and go on living through those feelings, and all because

(a) some disgusting parasite took advantage of the mother and

(b) the institution of law, under the influence of the pro-life brigade, disabled her right to terminate that pregnancy.

That termination could have effectively saved one life, and perhaps given that life the opportunity to have children at the right time, with the right person, as opposed to potentially destroying two lives.

Easily solved: Allow abortion in circumstances such as rape, incest, and where the health of the mother is genuinely at risk.

Hank_Jones

I was previously quite against abortion, but as I have got older and begun to view the world in a different light (church is the devil etc),
I now think that a woman should be able to choose her own path regarding abortion.
They are the ones who are going to have to live with their decision for the rest of their lives.

If they want to abort a child, that is up to them.
I do feel that there should be proper counselling in place and proper structure to make them think about what they are doing,
before going through with the abortion.

Einhard

Teferi wrote: »

Abortions should be legal.

If you don't like it, don't get an abortion.

:rolleyes:

I know it's AH and all, but seriously...

bronte

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Sinead O'Connor is a disgrace.

Sinead O' Connor spent time in a Magdalene asylum when she was a teenager.
I can't say I remotely blame her for how she feels.

On topic Rainbow Kirby said it best...safe ,legal and as rare as possible.

The M.a.p. should be over the counter too.

It's 2010 and it quite frankly makes me sick that this is not the case in my home country.

jordan..

going by the filth in this country i remain pro life, if you dont like it well fcuk you

lila44

Pro Choice.

And there is no wiggle room on my decision there.

It's not as easy as to simply say "Sure, ya can put the kid up for adoption can't ya?!". There are life-long implications, and pain associated with that. Real pain. For the child AND the mother. I am not adopted but I speak from somewhat experience here.

If you think that you cannot give a child the life, and love that it DESERVES, then abort. Sorry to be so blunt.

Einhard

lila44 wrote: »

Pro Choice.


If you think that you cannot give a child the life, and love that it DESERVES, then abort. Sorry to be so blunt.

What if you have the child and then realise you cannot give it the life and love it deserves?

lila44

Einhard wrote: »

What if you have the child and then realise you cannot give it the life and love it deserves?

My opinion is basically that if you want to have a child, you make sure that you are financially and emotionally stable enough to have one.

xxchloexx

Your own choice why should a woman have to be influenced by somebody else , its her own body nobody elses. Of course there are some extreme cases that abortion is the only option to the woman eg. rape. Some people seem to think it will be fine to just have the baby its not the childs fault , of course its not but its not going to be easy bringing up a rapists baby and whenever you look at the baby you are going to be reminded of the rapist , the child could grow up to look like him and you can only imagine how hard that would be to live with. Then there are other times when i think abortion is the best option , poor people who have no money to support a baby , easy to say give the child up for adoption but its not easy for a woman to carry her baby for 9 months grow attached and then just as its born give it up for adoption , she may want her child she can just not afford one but still does not want to hand it over to someone else. Also what about drug addicts , i dont think anyone who is a drug user and can hardly look after them selfs never mind a child shouldn't even be allowed have a child. I understand the people who fall pregnant should have used something to prevent a pregnancy but condoms can break and the pill is not 100% effective. So before people jump on their high horse (especially men who have no idea what it feels like to carry a child for 9 months) then think about this would you rather a child grow up to be neglected or abort something that has not even begun to form. Its not like shooting a baby in the heart , its killing cells yes but its not killing a baby" a baby is a human who has just been born.

Teferi

Einhard wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I know it's AH and all, but seriously...

...what?

Hank_Jones

jordan.. wrote: »

going by the filth in this country i remain pro life, if you dont like it well fcuk you

Say a child is buggered by a paedophile priest?

Or just a regular paedophile for that matter?

The child of say...12 becomes pregnant, should they be forced to have that child?