Irish workers

AnonoBoy · 30-06-2010 11:53AM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the OP asked what i think it a very valid question and opened an interesting discussion,

what really annoys me is the fact that at the first hint of someone talking about nationality the're accused of racism and the thread gets f'ucked over.

the PC holier-than-thou brigade out there can go f'uck themselves.

The answer really is most Irish people don't want those jobs. I don't think there's any big pro-foreigner conspiracy going on.

AnonoBoy · 30-06-2010 11:54AM

phill106 wrote: »

Again, these are only in english speaking establishments. I do not expect my local purveyor of oriental cuisine to speak english all the time.

If they're serving you French Fries though you do?

eightyfish · 30-06-2010 11:57AM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

many many of these, especially in city centre hire non-Irish because they can pay below minimum wage,

No they can't.

marco_polo · 30-06-2010 11:58AM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the OP asked what i think it a very valid question and opened an interesting discussion,

what really annoys me is the fact that at the first hint of someone talking about nationality the're accused of racism and the thread gets f'ucked over.

the PC holier-than-thou brigade out there can go f'uck themselves.

Not really, foreign people took service jobs some years ago and held on to them, as they are obviously doing a good job employers have absolutely no reason to let them go.

Elessar · 30-06-2010 11:58AM

I couldn't believe my eyes when I walked into McDonalds in Artane last week, every worker behind the counter was Irish. I nearly fainted.

thebigbiffo · 30-06-2010 11:58AM

marco_polo wrote: »

Would you have found it equally strange to walk into to a bulding site in London in the 1980s and find say 50% of the workers were Irish?

edit: i took this quote out of context

i think it's very fair to point out that irish people aren't in alot of these jobs - and we have to ask the question as to why. unfortunately - after a argument where the term 'racist' will be thrown about quite liberally - it'll probably be shown that irish people dont want these jobs, are happy on the dole, that employers wont hire irish people for these jobs or our employment laws (minimum wages etc) are being ignored

The Waltzing Consumer · 30-06-2010 11:59AM

eightyfish wrote: »

No they can't.

They can and they do. Why is it not possible for them not to pay under minimum wage?? Do you think none of these places break the law? A bit naive?

prinz · 30-06-2010 11:59AM

In respect of people speaking between themselves while serving a customer, then it p*sses me off unless it relates to the customer some query or other). It makes no difference if they are speaking English to each other or Polish, or Urdu.

I prefer dealing with foreign service staff. Personal experience would indicate to me they are in general better at their jobs. So no, having 50+% foreign staff doesn't faze me in the slightest.

reprazant · 30-06-2010 12:00PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

They can and they do

They can't but some do.

Illegally.

phill106 · 30-06-2010 12:01PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

If they're serving you French Fries though you do?

Depends on the context, and front of house, vs back of house people.
IE people cooking in the kitchen, not dealing with customers. As a customer, i would have no problems with them speaking whatever language they want.
The waiter/waitress telling them the order, after stepping away from the counter telling them the order in their own language, as a customer, would not bother me.
Two staff at the till talking back and forth between them in their own language, while dealing with customers, I would have a problem with. However, I would also have a problem with them talking any language back and forth in front of me, while they are supposed to be dealing with customers.
Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

Gyalist · 30-06-2010 12:03PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I think you have forgotten one other reason. Many of these services are franchises, and many many of these, especially in city centre hire non-Irish because they can pay below minimum wage, get the staff to work under very tough conditions which Irish people will not work under. This means a high turnover of staff and they continue this trend as there are plenty of people to replace them. Irish people, if they have worked for a few years, can claim social welfare, so they will not put up with a manager who is breaking employment law because they are better off on the dole.

I have lots of foreign friends who have worked in tons of places around Dublin city centre for a few days to a few weeks and eventually leave because they get exploited so much and they can only do it for so long.
It is all about saving money on employment costs, so I don't blame Irish or non-Irish employees, I blame greedy managers looking to save as much money as possible. They will never get caught and they dont give a sh*t.

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

fakearms123 · 30-06-2010 12:03PM

thebaz wrote: »

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

well considering that there was already 50% non irish working in McDs and the likes well before the recession means that they kept these experienced non irish workers on for obvious reasons, they know how to do their job.

Are you trying to say that you walked into McDs before the recession and saw 100% irish workers inside there?? Pat Healy taking the orders, Mary Mulvahill serving up the bacon and chip combos and Brendan Ahern coughing into your twisty fries which had just avoided the 10 second rule as it was scooped off the floor... no, no , no, do you know why there is only less than 50% non irish working in these places... because everyone knows non nationals aren't real people, they're sub people, like mole people or crab people, us irish are the superior race, HAIL COWEN! *raises right arm straight up*

/thread

AnonoBoy · 30-06-2010 12:04PM

phill106 wrote: »

Depends on the context, and front of house, vs back of house people.
IE people cooking in the kitchen, not dealing with customers. As a customer, i would have no problems with them speaking whatever language they want.
The waiter/waitress telling them the order, after stepping away from the counter telling them the order in their own language, as a customer, would not bother me.
Two staff at the till talking back and forth between them in their own language, while dealing with customers, I would have a problem with. However, I would also have a problem with them talking any language back and forth in front of me, while they are supposed to be dealing with customers.
Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

So it's not the language you object to, it's the talking?

Your issue has nothing to do with foreign staff then, just rude staff?

Mike 1972 · 30-06-2010 12:05PM

phill106 wrote: »

Because if they are in a position to be dealing with the public, they should be speaking the spoken language of the company in question.

For some reason are assuming that every company you deal with has such a policy. The majority dont. Simply because it isint an issue.

They don't want customers to know what they are saying.

If they are not speaking to customers why do the customers need to know what they are saying

phill106 wrote: »

Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

If theyre not speaking English how do you know whether their discussions are work related or not. Moreover why do you particularly care. Surely what employees are allowed discuss and what languages they can discuss it in are a matter for the employer.

eightyfish · 30-06-2010 12:05PM

reprazant wrote: »

They can't but some do.

Illegally.

I'd say it is a tiny proportion, if any. Your average McDonald's, Spar, Centra etc wouldn't pay people below minimum wage. If hey did, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to destroy the company's reputation. Look what happenned to Irish Ferries.

Individual cases of immigrants being paid below min wage, possibly. Large-scale abuse like this, so much so that it would be relevant in a discussion about why there are so many "foreigners" working in fast food places and newsagents... no way.

Anecdotal evidence won't cut it either.

AnonoBoy · 30-06-2010 12:05PM

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

Are you saying only Irish people go on the lash? :rolleyes:

I know plenty of service industry people both Irish and foreign who can go out on the lash and still make it in to open up. I've done it myself and never missed a shift.

30-06-2010 12:06PM

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

Are you serious?

Are you suggesting only irish people drink after work?

edit: Whoops too late!

thebigbiffo · 30-06-2010 12:06PM

marco_polo wrote: »

Not really, foreign people took service jobs some years ago and held on to them, as they are obviously doing a good job employers have absolutely no reason to let them go.

i took the OP's question as valid because the dole queues have been massive for 2 years. surely it's accepted that most of the staff working the services industry - foreign or not - are still just passing through. (ie, through college, until something better comes up etc - and yes, although people make a career in say mcdonalds, there's still a high staff turnover). i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time. surely staff have left and more positions need to be filled - why not with irish people?

Pittens · 30-06-2010 12:07PM

The answer really is most Irish people don't want those jobs. I don't think there's any big pro-foreigner conspiracy going on.

Hmm, in a country with 14% unemployment I find that odd. and undesirable.

eightyfish · 30-06-2010 12:08PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time.

How do you know it hasn't?

thebigbiffo · 30-06-2010 12:10PM

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

great. a real f'uckin patriot right here. way to keep the country going man eh? i suppose for your next trick you'll tell us how you pay those staff more wages too cos they're soooo much better at their jobs?

nah, my guess is they're cheaper anyway

reprazant · 30-06-2010 12:10PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i took the OP's question as valid because the dole queues have been massive for 2 years. surely it's accepted that most of the staff working the services industry - foreign or not - are still just passing through. (ie, through college, until something better comes up etc - and yes, although people make a career in say mcdonalds, there's still a high staff turnover). i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time. surely staff have left and more positions need to be filled - why not with irish people?

Possibly because people don't leave as there aren't any jobs to leave to?

Generally people will only work these jobs until a better job appears. If these jobs are not here, why would you leave?

The Waltzing Consumer · 30-06-2010 12:11PM

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

I never said all employers do this but there is lots in Dublin city that do. Do you know them all?

thebigbiffo · 30-06-2010 12:12PM

eightyfish wrote: »

How do you know it hasn't?

i've got eyes, i buy cigarettes in newsagents and i eat fast food...

that good enough or do you want me to do a survey?

marco_polo · 30-06-2010 12:12PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

edit: i took this quote out of context

i think it's very fair to point out that irish people aren't in alot of these jobs - and we have to ask the question as to why. unfortunately - after a argument where the term 'racist' will be thrown about quite liberally - it'll probably be shown that irish people dont want these jobs, are happy on the dole, that employers wont hire irish people for these jobs or our employment laws (minimum wages etc) are being ignored

I think that Irish people would certainly take them now if they were available, but they are not. To hold the view that it would be grossly unfair (and illegal) to displace foreign workers now is not playing the racist card.

prinz · 30-06-2010 12:13PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

great. a real f'uckin patriot right here. way to keep the country going man eh?

Patriotism has nothing to do with it. You hire whoever is best suited for the job, and based upon previous experience.

Gyalist · 30-06-2010 12:15PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Are you saying only Irish people go on the lash? :rolleyes:

I know plenty of service industry people both Irish and foreign who can go out on the lash and still make it in to open up. I've done it myself and never missed a shift.

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Are you serious?

Are you suggesting only irish people drink after work?

edit: Whoops too late!

I'm not saying that it's only Irish people who go out on the lash. However, in my experience and that of many other employers that I speak to, the Irish staff are more likely to subsequently miss work/turn up looking like death warmed up/turn up hours late/get their mothers to call in sick for them.

eightyfish · 30-06-2010 12:17PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i've got eyes, i buy cigarettes in newsagents and i eat fast food...

that good enough or do you want me to do a survey?

So you see a few workers during the day. That's not proof that the demographic hasn't shifted somewhat since the recession.

thebaz · 30-06-2010 12:18PM

Gyalist wrote: »

I have a friend who owns a small chain of coffee shops who only employs Portuguese. His rationale is that they have a better understanding of the concept of service and they don't blow off work just because it is a warm day and they have other plans with their friends, neither do they mind working unsociable hours.

in my mind that is not right - I worked in America in the 80s where i had no rights (Work hard and get paid - but no rights) - i also worked in the UK where I was made feal 2nd class citizen - during the anti irish days

marco_polo · 30-06-2010 12:19PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i took the OP's question as valid because the dole queues have been massive for 2 years. surely it's accepted that most of the staff working the services industry - foreign or not - are still just passing through. (ie, through college, until something better comes up etc - and yes, although people make a career in say mcdonalds, there's still a high staff turnover). i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time. surely staff have left and more positions need to be filled - why not with irish people?

I am not an economist or anything like thst but I would imagine that staff turnover is greatly reduced in a recession.

Personally my own impression over the last year or so would have been that the proportion of Irish staff is increasing in these jobs. Don't know if I am right or not

Irish workers

Comments