Irish workers

thebaz

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

Superbus

The latter.

easyeason3

I'm guessing that whoever is employed there is good at what they do & are kept on.
Don't think the colour of your skin or your origin has anything to do with it.

PaddyBomb

But what if my mates see me working in McDonalds? I'd be like a failure!


So I'll stick to my succesful life of living off the dole.

Mike 1972

OP are you just trolling or are you seriously suggesting these companies suddenly turn around and sack experienced and competent people who may have been with them over 2 years solely to employ new, unknown staff (probably without the necessary skills/experience) solely for reasons of nationality.

Such a thing would be highly illegal and racist but most of all would be pure idiocy.

Being Irish doesnt mean someone is owed a living.

RobbieTheRobber

thebaz wrote: »

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

Irish people didnt want these jobs and can I have fries with that?

Gyalist

They certainly don't work for less as they have to be paid at least the statutory minimum wage.

TheZohanS

thebaz wrote: »

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

During the Celtic Tiger when we had full employment(4% unemployment is classed as full employment btw) in the country it was these non-Irish workers that took up the jobs that nobody else wanted. Any worker that proved themselves to be hard workers ware kept on, slackers were cut free, allowed to run through the medows.

Why the hell should they be let go now that the unemployment rate has increased? That would be racist. You're not a racist are you?

thebaz

Mike 1972 wrote: »

OP are you just trolling or are you seriously suggesting these companies suddenly turn around and sack experienced and competent people who may have been with them over 2 years solely to employ new, unknown staff (probably without the necessary skills/experience) solely for reasons of nationality.

Such a thing would be highly illegal and racist but most of all would be pure idiocy.

Being Irish doesnt mean someone is owed a living.

No , not all , but the likes of McDonalds and Dominoes would have a huge turnaround in staff - not sure what you mean by "being irish doesnt mean someone is owed a living"

I just find it strange in high unemployment that there is not at least a 50 50 breakdown

4zn76tysfajdxp

TheZohan wrote: »

Why the hell should they be let go now that the unemployment rate has increased? That would be racist. You're not a racist are you?

I am. Grrrr.

thebaz

TheZohan wrote: »

During the Celtic Tiger when we had full employment(4% unemployment is classed as full employment btw) in the country it was these non-Irish workers that took up the jobs that nobody else wanted. Any worker that proved themselves to be hard workers ware kept on, slackers were cut free, allowed to run through the medows.

Why the hell should they be let go now that the unemployment rate has increased? That would be racist. You're not a racist are you?

No I'm not a rascist , just find it strange - I believe in equality for all

phill106

While it was predominantly foreign works 2-3 years ago, I am seeing a slight swing towards more irish working in fast food/retail. While not racist at all, i did find it a tad annoying when staff were shouting back and forth in their native language in the course of the work, ie at the till.
Coming from places that had huge amount of foreign workers, nearly all places had a company policy that english would be spoken language of the company, and would be used for all work communication.
Breaks you can speak what you like (though i had friends who were against that even!).

eightyfish

thebaz wrote: »

I just find it strange in high unemployment that there is not at least a 50 50 breakdown

Why?

plein de force

well a couple of years ago irish people wouldn't want to work there, the foreign workers were the ones who mostly applied, people still want dominos, supermarkets etc. therefore they're still working there, not really that much behind it.

thebaz

eightyfish wrote: »

Why?

well if i went to Warsaw to McDonalds and found over 50% of workers were Irish , i'd find that strange

Greyfox

PaddyBomb wrote: »

But what if my mates see me working in McDonalds? I'd be like a failure!

So I'll stick to my succesful life of living off the dole.

Anybody who see's someone working in McDonalds as a failure is an ignorant idiot. ANY job is better then been on the dole!

Gyalist

I have a friend who owns a small chain of coffee shops who only employs Portuguese. His rationale is that they have a better understanding of the concept of service and they don't blow off work just because it is a warm day and they have other plans with their friends, neither do they mind working unsociable hours.

AnonoBoy

I've seen a lot more Irish people in service industry jobs lately.

But I suppose some Irish people might be still a bit snobby about working behind the counter in a chipper.

denballs

if your going to ask a question .......you could at least ask a good one:(

a couple reasons.........

Irish workers tend to go for careers as specialy trained staff....and then stick to that career .....ive heard of many unemployed builders.....but no trained builders working in mcdonalds......

The managers of these places are usually foreign so hire their or other staffs foreign friends and family...........

If we sent 50 euro a week to our family it wouldnt feed them for a week.........

The majority of those working in such .......servitory.........positions do not have the legal right to either be in this country or to get the dole so as soon as they set foot on irish soil they need a job or there homeless.........


Also.....irish prefer foreign nationals to prepare/serve food......we mistrust other irish doing it as we assume they are somewat mentally inefficient.

easyeason3

denballs wrote: »

if your going to ask a question .......you could at least ask a good one:(

a couple reasons.........

Irish workers tend to go for careers as specialy trained staff....and then stick to that career .....ive heard of many unemployed builders.....but no trained builders working in mcdonalds......

The managers of these places are usually foreign so hire their or other staffs foreign friends and family...........

If we sent 50 euro a week to our family it wouldnt feed them for a week.........

The majority of those working in such .......servitory.........positions do not have the legal right to either be in this country or to get the dole so as soon as they set foot on irish soil they need a job or there homeless.........


Also.....irish prefer foreign nationals to prepare/serve food......we mistrust other irish doing it as we assume they are somewat mentally inefficient.

I...think...you...could...be...wrong...

Mike 1972

thebaz wrote: »

No , not all , but the likes of McDonalds and Dominoes would have a huge turnaround in staff

Perhaps the turnaround rate among foreign staff is lower ?

phill106 wrote: »

, i did find it a tad annoying when staff were shouting back and forth in their native language in the course of the work, ie at the till.

Why would it annoy you given that they werent speaking to you ?

PaddyBomb

Greyfox wrote: »

Anybody who see's someone working in McDonalds as a failure is an ignorant idiot. ANY job is better then been on the dole!

That was a joke. I taught this was posted in After Hours....

Oh wait... This IS After Hours.

munchkin_utd

thebaz wrote: »

well if i went to Warsaw to McDonalds and found over 50% of workers were Irish , i'd find that strange

youre not listening

this is a legacy issue from the boom times.
Irish people during the boom were only prepared to take cushy non customer service type jobs.
Irish people were also not prepared to put up with the arrogance and attitude (of the new irish rich) that you encountered from customers at the height of the boom in service industries.

now people are happy to have a job. But the non irish that were working in service industries are still there.

For example, my sister works in a coffee shop in the IFSC for the past 4 years. Shes the only irish one there.
Why? 'cos there were NEVER any irish applicants until a couple of years ago till all went belly up economy wise. And the foreigners are still there after years of working there.

The only way to "redress" the balance is to layoff the foreigners who have been working in these positions for years and years.

Is that what you want?

thebaz

denballs wrote: »

if your going to ask a question .......you could at least ask a good one:(

I think it is a valid question - and before the usual rascist jibe - let me qualify when i confronted 4 BNP skins on a tube last Easter about racist abuse - the politically correct were politically silent - i know that was london - but at least i stood up to real racism

AnonoBoy

denballs wrote: »

The majority of those working in such .......servitory.........positions do not have the legal right to either be in this country or to get the dole so as soon as they set foot on irish soil they need a job or there homeless.........

You're talking rubbish. If they're not legally entitled to be here then McDonald's aren't going to hire them.

eightyfish

thebaz wrote: »

well if i went to Warsaw to McDonalds and found over 50% of workers were Irish , i'd find that strange

We're not in Warsaw, though. We are in an EU country which had, until very recently, a thriving economy with plentiful jobs. Poland is part of a common labour market. With Cadbury's, Waterford Crystal, Dell and many other companies moving their manufacturing to Poland recently, don't be surprised if you start seeing Irish moving over there.

Mike 1972

eightyfish wrote: »

With Cadbury's, Waterford Crystal, Dell and many other companies moving their manufacturing to Poland recently, don't be surprised if you start seeing Irish moving over there.

Actually under a little known piece of EU legislation known as TUPE When a company relocates within or between EU member states any workers who are facing redundancy may be entitled to transfer instead.

But this is rarely made clear.

marco_polo

thebaz wrote: »

well if i went to Warsaw to McDonalds and found over 50% of workers were Irish , i'd find that strange

Poor comparison really, a better one would be: Would you have found it equally strange to walk into to a bulding site in London in the 1980s and find say 50% of the workers were Irish?

The Waltzing Consumer

thebaz wrote: »

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

I think you have forgotten one other reason. Many of these services are franchises, and many many of these, especially in city centre hire non-Irish because they can pay below minimum wage, get the staff to work under very tough conditions which Irish people will not work under. This means a high turnover of staff and they continue this trend as there are plenty of people to replace them. Irish people, if they have worked for a few years, can claim social welfare, so they will not put up with a manager who is breaking employment law because they are better off on the dole.

I have lots of foreign friends who have worked in tons of places around Dublin city centre for a few days to a few weeks and eventually leave because they get exploited so much and they can only do it for so long.
It is all about saving money on employment costs, so I don't blame Irish or non-Irish employees, I blame greedy managers looking to save as much money as possible. They will never get caught and they dont give a sh*t.

thebigbiffo

the OP asked what i think it a very valid question and opened an interesting discussion,

what really annoys me is the fact that at the first hint of someone talking about nationality the're accused of racism and the thread gets f'ucked over.

the PC holier-than-thou brigade out there can go f'uck themselves.

phill106

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Perhaps the turnaround rate among foreign staff is lower ?



Why would it annoy you given that they werent speaking to you ?

Because if they are in a position to be dealing with the public, they should be speaking the spoken language of the company in question.
Think of the reasons why a person would go against said policy, and speak their own language for a conversation.

1. They don't know specific words in english. No problem with that. Use those words in own language, and continue on in english.
2. They dont care about company policy and choose to ignore it. If they ignore one policy, they can ignore others, from cash handling to hand washing, too not sneezing on your gloved hands and asking me would i like a flake on my icecream or not.
3. They don't want customers to know what they are saying.

Again, these are only in english speaking establishments. I do not expect my local purveyor of oriental cuisine to speak english all the time.

AnonoBoy

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the OP asked what i think it a very valid question and opened an interesting discussion,

what really annoys me is the fact that at the first hint of someone talking about nationality the're accused of racism and the thread gets f'ucked over.

the PC holier-than-thou brigade out there can go f'uck themselves.

The answer really is most Irish people don't want those jobs. I don't think there's any big pro-foreigner conspiracy going on.

AnonoBoy

phill106 wrote: »

Again, these are only in english speaking establishments. I do not expect my local purveyor of oriental cuisine to speak english all the time.

If they're serving you French Fries though you do?

eightyfish

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

many many of these, especially in city centre hire non-Irish because they can pay below minimum wage,

No they can't.

marco_polo

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the OP asked what i think it a very valid question and opened an interesting discussion,

what really annoys me is the fact that at the first hint of someone talking about nationality the're accused of racism and the thread gets f'ucked over.

the PC holier-than-thou brigade out there can go f'uck themselves.

Not really, foreign people took service jobs some years ago and held on to them, as they are obviously doing a good job employers have absolutely no reason to let them go.

Elessar

I couldn't believe my eyes when I walked into McDonalds in Artane last week, every worker behind the counter was Irish. I nearly fainted.

thebigbiffo

marco_polo wrote: »

Would you have found it equally strange to walk into to a bulding site in London in the 1980s and find say 50% of the workers were Irish?

edit: i took this quote out of context

i think it's very fair to point out that irish people aren't in alot of these jobs - and we have to ask the question as to why. unfortunately - after a argument where the term 'racist' will be thrown about quite liberally - it'll probably be shown that irish people dont want these jobs, are happy on the dole, that employers wont hire irish people for these jobs or our employment laws (minimum wages etc) are being ignored

The Waltzing Consumer

eightyfish wrote: »

No they can't.

They can and they do. Why is it not possible for them not to pay under minimum wage?? Do you think none of these places break the law? A bit naive?

prinz

In respect of people speaking between themselves while serving a customer, then it p*sses me off unless it relates to the customer some query or other). It makes no difference if they are speaking English to each other or Polish, or Urdu.

I prefer dealing with foreign service staff. Personal experience would indicate to me they are in general better at their jobs. So no, having 50+% foreign staff doesn't faze me in the slightest.

reprazant

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

They can and they do

They can't but some do.

Illegally.

phill106

AnonoBoy wrote: »

If they're serving you French Fries though you do?

Depends on the context, and front of house, vs back of house people.
IE people cooking in the kitchen, not dealing with customers. As a customer, i would have no problems with them speaking whatever language they want.
The waiter/waitress telling them the order, after stepping away from the counter telling them the order in their own language, as a customer, would not bother me.
Two staff at the till talking back and forth between them in their own language, while dealing with customers, I would have a problem with. However, I would also have a problem with them talking any language back and forth in front of me, while they are supposed to be dealing with customers.
Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

Gyalist

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I think you have forgotten one other reason. Many of these services are franchises, and many many of these, especially in city centre hire non-Irish because they can pay below minimum wage, get the staff to work under very tough conditions which Irish people will not work under. This means a high turnover of staff and they continue this trend as there are plenty of people to replace them. Irish people, if they have worked for a few years, can claim social welfare, so they will not put up with a manager who is breaking employment law because they are better off on the dole.

I have lots of foreign friends who have worked in tons of places around Dublin city centre for a few days to a few weeks and eventually leave because they get exploited so much and they can only do it for so long.
It is all about saving money on employment costs, so I don't blame Irish or non-Irish employees, I blame greedy managers looking to save as much money as possible. They will never get caught and they dont give a sh*t.

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

fakearms123

thebaz wrote: »

In these days of record unemployment I find it strange when i walk into any McDonalds, Coffee shop, Domino that way over 50% of the staff are non Irish - Chinese/Eastern European/Indian - is it that Irish people are not applying or Eastern Europeans/Chinese are perceived as better workers and will work for less - I am puzzled

well considering that there was already 50% non irish working in McDs and the likes well before the recession means that they kept these experienced non irish workers on for obvious reasons, they know how to do their job.

Are you trying to say that you walked into McDs before the recession and saw 100% irish workers inside there?? Pat Healy taking the orders, Mary Mulvahill serving up the bacon and chip combos and Brendan Ahern coughing into your twisty fries which had just avoided the 10 second rule as it was scooped off the floor... no, no , no, do you know why there is only less than 50% non irish working in these places... because everyone knows non nationals aren't real people, they're sub people, like mole people or crab people, us irish are the superior race, HAIL COWEN! *raises right arm straight up*

/thread

AnonoBoy

phill106 wrote: »

Depends on the context, and front of house, vs back of house people.
IE people cooking in the kitchen, not dealing with customers. As a customer, i would have no problems with them speaking whatever language they want.
The waiter/waitress telling them the order, after stepping away from the counter telling them the order in their own language, as a customer, would not bother me.
Two staff at the till talking back and forth between them in their own language, while dealing with customers, I would have a problem with. However, I would also have a problem with them talking any language back and forth in front of me, while they are supposed to be dealing with customers.
Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

So it's not the language you object to, it's the talking?

Your issue has nothing to do with foreign staff then, just rude staff?

Mike 1972

phill106 wrote: »

Because if they are in a position to be dealing with the public, they should be speaking the spoken language of the company in question.

For some reason are assuming that every company you deal with has such a policy. The majority dont. Simply because it isint an issue.

They don't want customers to know what they are saying.

If they are not speaking to customers why do the customers need to know what they are saying

phill106 wrote: »

Pass me a pen please, can you call xxxx i need a key, all fine, but chatting about non work stuff should be kept to a minimum during working hours, regardless of the language.

If theyre not speaking English how do you know whether their discussions are work related or not. Moreover why do you particularly care. Surely what employees are allowed discuss and what languages they can discuss it in are a matter for the employer.

eightyfish

reprazant wrote: »

They can't but some do.

Illegally.

I'd say it is a tiny proportion, if any. Your average McDonald's, Spar, Centra etc wouldn't pay people below minimum wage. If hey did, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to destroy the company's reputation. Look what happenned to Irish Ferries.

Individual cases of immigrants being paid below min wage, possibly. Large-scale abuse like this, so much so that it would be relevant in a discussion about why there are so many "foreigners" working in fast food places and newsagents... no way.

Anecdotal evidence won't cut it either.

AnonoBoy

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

Are you saying only Irish people go on the lash? :rolleyes:

I know plenty of service industry people both Irish and foreign who can go out on the lash and still make it in to open up. I've done it myself and never missed a shift.

RobbieTheRobber

Gyalist wrote: »

That's bollocks. I am an employer and I also know lots of other employers.

Who would you trust to open your business/turn up to work on a Sunday morning? The Irish staff who went out on the piss after work or the non-Irish staff who sensibly went home after work to get some rest?

Are you serious?

Are you suggesting only irish people drink after work?

edit: Whoops too late!

thebigbiffo

marco_polo wrote: »

Not really, foreign people took service jobs some years ago and held on to them, as they are obviously doing a good job employers have absolutely no reason to let them go.

i took the OP's question as valid because the dole queues have been massive for 2 years. surely it's accepted that most of the staff working the services industry - foreign or not - are still just passing through. (ie, through college, until something better comes up etc - and yes, although people make a career in say mcdonalds, there's still a high staff turnover). i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time. surely staff have left and more positions need to be filled - why not with irish people?

Pittens

The answer really is most Irish people don't want those jobs. I don't think there's any big pro-foreigner conspiracy going on.

Hmm, in a country with 14% unemployment I find that odd. and undesirable.

eightyfish

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i wonder why the ratio of foreign to native workers hasn't changed at all in this time.

How do you know it hasn't?