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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

«134567…99

Comments

  • #2
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:


  • #3
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    It's good news - especially with the D part, it makes the Luas much more of a network, and not just two unconnected lines.

    Now, we have to wait and see if it's gonna get built?

    galwayrush wrote: »
    I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:

    I don't get what you mean by this? Are you under the impression the current lines aren't the same?


  • #4
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Is this to be an extension of the Sandyford line, with a new terminus up on Parnell Sq somewhere or will the oring terminus remain at the green and a feeder tram(s) run between?


  • #5
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    galwayrush wrote: »
    I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:

    Similar to the rest of the RPA/tram network which it's extending - yes. Seriously, no-one cares about the gauge.
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Is this to be an extension of the Sandyford line, with a new terminus up on Parnell Sq somewhere or will the oring terminus remain at the green and a feeder tram(s) run between?

    The map on the RPA website shows it as a full extension of the Green line, ie running from Broombridge to Sandyford (and eventually to Bray).

    I still hate the silly looping around the city centre - it can only add to the cost (both in time and money), requires more utilities to be diverted, significantly increase the area of disruption and require a new bridge. It's not like O'Connell st is a small, windy street. The only advantage I can think is that it's going through some dilapidated areas which might rejuvenate them in the future.


  • #6
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    It will be a new terminus at Broombridge.

    Map here.


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  • #7
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    I said it before but im against a line to Broombridge on the simple basis that it would be trashed by elements of the locals and because of a link up with the other lines, by proxy, it will make the other lines more unsafe for commuters. In a perfect world it is a good idea but I think the line would be unsafe for commuters. And if anyone has any doubt catch a train at Broombridge station one day to find out! I think this one line would be much worse then parts of the red line.


  • #8
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    darkman2 wrote: »
    I said it before but im against a line to Broombridge on the simple basis that it would be trashed by elements of the locals and because of a link up with the other lines, by proxy, it will make the other lines more unsafe for commuters. In a perfect world it is a good idea but I think the line would be unsafe for commuters. And if anyone has any doubt catch a train at Broombridge station one day to find out!

    It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

    It's generally lads from Finglas or Cabra coming down to cause trouble where no-one is watching. Irish rail aren't helping, as they preferred to leave the station unmanned and unwatched to get trashed, rather than keep an eye on it. If the station wasn't so secluded and deserted at night, the trouble would move elsewhere, to an easier target, where they can wreck stuff in peace.

    Even so, how could it make the Luas less safe, unless you actually go to Broombridge? They don't get on trains now, so why would they start getting on trams.


  • #9
    darkman2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

    It's generally lads from Finglas or Cabra coming down to cause trouble where no-one is watching. Irish rail aren't helping, as they preferred to leave the station unmanned and unwatched to get trashed, rather than keep an eye on it. If the station wasn't so secluded and deserted at night, the trouble would move elsewhere, to an easier target, where they can wreck stuff in peace.

    Even so, how could it make the Luas less safe, unless you actually go to Broombridge? They don't get on trains now, so why would they start getting on trams.

    lol - you obviously have not seen the fare dodging by the young thugs on the red line who think it's a free taxi to the Children's Court yet?

    Im telling you now - you can make up all the excuses - this line will be unsafe. Mark my words. It does not matter where the scumbags are coming from. I hope the RPA look forward to all the broken in windows on trams as they get to O'Connell St. Ever had your train bricked?

    Im of the opinion that the leftist nonsense does not work. Whatever you give an area like this a sh*t will be made of it quick time. It's unfair to the genuine locals who would like the service but it is reality. Just give them a few extra buses - they can trash them if they want, as they do. NOT 170m € of yours and my money.


  • #10
    rameire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭rameire


    i wonder will they be building this in two phases.
    first phase from stephens green to parnel square and back.
    and then second phase from parnell square to boombridge?

    although i wouldnt be suprised if they built from parnel to boombridge first and then from stephens green to parnell square.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



  • #11
    davem75
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭davem75


    I would prefer them to build the city tram tracks first. But I can see them doing broombridge to town first which is going to be a nightmare as the sc&m will trash the site every night of the week.


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  • #12
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

    There are plenty of residential areas around Broombridge. All rougher than a badger's ass too.


  • #13
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I must agree with some of the above posts: I really don't see the point in building a Luas line to Boombridge.


  • #14
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    SeanW wrote: »
    I must agree with some of the above posts: I really don't see the point in building a Luas line to Boombridge.

    Presumably it's not Broombridge per se but the fact that it can mostly be built on an existing alignment from Broadstone so it should be cheaper to build and won't suffer from the on-street limitations of the red line. Also, it results in a cross-city route, can be extended to Finglas later and integrates with the Maynooth line.


  • #15
    WezzyB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 429 ✭✭WezzyB


    Looks like the sc&m have trashed the RPA website, it's currently unavailable. A sign of things to come.

    Btw, I live 10 mins from broombridge and think the Luas extension will be great for the area, hopefully it will upgrade the site facilities and security.


  • #16
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    This is RPA acting the mickey. the b***x**d line is what it should be called. Metro west is the only one that should be built. [ Where the hell will all the bus routes go instead ? ]

    Essentially you're talking about locking off Dawson St for 2-3 years and not even guaranteeing buses or taxis can get back onto it. So where will the 46A and other routes go instead ? behind Trinity and down Pearse St ? Crowded at the best of times

    Cuffest/Aungier St - already chokka

    RPA acting the mickey - no money for this at all, crayoning of the worst order.


  • #17
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    trellheim wrote: »
    Essentially you're talking about locking off Dawson St for 2-3 years and not even guaranteeing buses or taxis can get back onto it.

    Dawson street is four lanes wide with on-street parking in the fifth lane. If there isn't space for two tram lines and at least one lane of traffic, I don't know how they managed to squeeze it into Harcourt St or Abbey St. The only problem I can see there is if any traffic will be allowed onto Nassau St between Dawson st and Suffolk st - if they're diverted around Trinity like you say, there are options to allow them to progress. They could use Westland Row & Lombard St to access the Samuel Beckett bridge and then the quays to get to O'Connell St. Or they could allow buses & taxies to turn left onto Nassau/Suffolk and re-direct outbound traffic along Pearse St, much like the bus gate does at the moment.


  • #18
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    can the Luas not share the road with buses in a dedicated lane or is that not allowed in Dublin? Would make sense, a lot less disruption and a lot less lane space lost.


  • #19
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    can the Luas not share the road with buses in a dedicated lane or is that not allowed in Dublin? Would make sense, a lot less disruption and a lot less lane space lost.

    Not until DB stop allowing cash payment on-board and sort out some extra doors!


  • #20
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    I really hope this goes ahead and finally connects the two lines and gives further integration by connecting with another rail line.

    As for those moaning about the Luas going to Broombridge, you can't just give up on an area because of a minority of people. Hopefully the construction of the line means all the wasteland around Broombridge stn gets built on and those causing trouble there move elsewhere and finally IE can do up the stn without it getting trashed again.


  • #21
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    rameire wrote: »
    i wonder will they be building this in two phases.
    first phase from stephens green to parnel square and back.
    and then second phase from parnell square to boombridge?

    Building it in two phases an above would make sense as the second phase probably wouldnt be feasible until the single DIT campus at Grangegorman is built which will generate a few thousand passengers every day during the week.


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  • #22
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    As for those moaning about the Luas going to Broombridge, you can't just give up on an area because of a minority of people.
    I agree. But to fix the problems at Broombridge (and other parts of the country where gangs of roving scumbags rule with an iron crowbar) you'd need to have the army out with orders to shoot vandals on sight.

    But the lefty-brigade would be too worried about the scobes "rights."

    Then - and only as a result - you have to give up on places like Boombridge.


  • #23
    Steviemak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭Steviemak


    SeanW wrote: »
    to fix the problems at Broombridge (and other parts of the country where gangs of roving scumbags rule with an iron crowbar) you'd need to have the army out with orders to shoot vandals on sight.

    Really?

    If they get the security right at broombridge and stop ticketless people boarding the trams it might have some impact but I wouldn't fancy using this tram past phibsboro and the bus can get you there in a few minutes anyway.


  • #24
    Poster King
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Poster King


    markpb wrote: »

    I still hate the silly looping around the city centre - it can only add to the cost (both in time and money), requires more utilities to be diverted, significantly increase the area of disruption and require a new bridge. It's not like O'Connell st is a small, windy street. The only advantage I can think is that it's going through some dilapidated areas which might rejuvenate them in the future.

    In too am baffled by the decision to split the line and agree with all the points made above. Marlborough St is narrow, O'Connell Street is the widest in the country. I would love to hear the rational for this if anyone knows.

    The link up between the two lines needs to be done ASAP. The current situation is a joke.


  • #25
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    I am assuming this is a brand new line not just an extension of the Green Line.
    1/. I don't understand they started at St. Stephen Green since the Metro North already going from there to O'Connell Street.
    Metro North is a RPA project too.
    The Advertising for Metro North was meant to link the Green line to the Red line to allow commuters to gain access to both lines.
    Transport21 wrote:
    http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Metro_-_Luas/Metro_North.html

    The Metro is a significant step in the creation of an integrated public transport system for Dublin. This first phase will link together all of the existing rail corridors in Dublin, by interchanging with the DART, the northern, north-western and south-eastern suburban rail lines, and the Luas Red and Green lines and bus services along the route.

    http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/Cullen_announces_selected__Route_for_Metro_North.html
    Metro will offer a higher capacity than the Luas - as the trains will be longer and faster.

    2/. I don't understand why break the route into two if they are going to use O'Connell street as a route. It is wider than Abbey street and that has the red line both directions.

    3/. If they wanted to go to Broombridge why not use the existing railway lines to Connelly Station or better still, use Metro North to Drumcondra and take the Dart to Maynooth train which goes through Broombridge.
    http://transport21.ie/Maps/upload/Image/DrulinRailMapBG.jpg

    They would make better use of money and build a Railway stations to both side of Croke park on Jones road or at the canal end where they could create a two track railway at Croke park, where it would make more sense for match day fans and for the local areas!!

    For such a brilliant and huge stadium, I never understood why Croke Park did not get a train station build in when they were redeveloped it in the first place.


  • #26
    Lauder
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Lauder


    Any idea what will become of the glorious Broadstone Station building with the Luas going via there. By the maps it appears to run outside the station building, why not through it? Will this project be the final nail in the coffin for the reopening of the station for real trains?


  • #27
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Agreed on the line split, an absolute dog's dinner. O'Connell is the most perfect street in Ireland for twin tramlines, it would look great, work great, and probably cost less. But no, we have to shunt this thing down Marlboro and fork out for a superfluous bridge when the widest bridge in Ireland lies 10 metres away. Mind boggling stuff.

    No wonder the country is fooked with this kind of hairbrained thinking underlining all our endeavours.


  • #28
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    limklad wrote: »
    3/. If they wanted to go to Broombridge why not use the existing railway lines to Connelly Station

    Turf war? :) Like I said earlier, I don't think Broombridge is the aim - it just happens to be at the end of an already constructed railway alignment which means it's cheaper to build and has it's own right of way for part of the trip. Using the lines you're talking about would mean ripping up the tracks and signalling, re-laying them and finding an exit onto the road network at both ends while not actually joining the Green line.
    Lauder wrote: »
    Any idea what will become of the glorious Broadstone Station building with the Luas going via there. By the maps it appears to run outside the station building, why not through it?

    I'd love to see it restored too but it's useless to Irish Rail (3 IC stations is more than enough for Dublin) and useless to RPA (on-street trams don't need or want that kind of facility - it's part of the attraction of light rail.)


  • #29
    Empire o de Sun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Agreed on the line split, an absolute dog's dinner. O'Connell is the most perfect street in Ireland for twin tramlines, it would look great, work great, and probably cost less. But no, we have to shunt this thing down Marlboro and fork out for a superfluous bridge when the widest bridge in Ireland lies 10 metres away. Mind boggling stuff.

    No wonder the country is fooked with this kind of hairbrained thinking underlining all our endeavours.


    Dublin Bus Objected to two tram lines.


  • #30
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I must say that I have never understood the calls for the two Luas lines to be linked up and, if they must be, the Green line should be connected to the Red line via Pearse/Tara Street and Connolly Stations. In this way some additional traffic might be gained for the many millions of Euros that this project will eat up. As for Broombridge - forget it. The alignment from Broadstone to Liffey Junction would be much better used for heavy rail than for more useless Luas extensions.


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  • #31
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I must say that I have never understood the calls for the two Luas lines to be linked up

    Funny, if the linkup existed, I'd have used it twice a day, every working day for three years. My colleague who lives near James' Hospital and works in Sandyford would use it. Countless people would use it. People who live in Smithfield and work near Harcourt would use it. People who live in Tallaght and work in Charlemont would use it.
    As for Broombridge - forget it. The alignment from Broadstone to Liffey Junction would be much better used for heavy rail than for more useless Luas extensions.

    It hasn't been used for passenger traffic since 1937 - I'd say it's better used for a tram line than growing grass. The only time Irish Rail made any noise about using it was when RPA wanted it - suddenly they had all sorts of previously undisclosed plans.


  • #32
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    Is this Luas line really needed now, if the Metro North line is to be built beneath this almost same route (from O'Connell to Stephens Green)? I know this is only one phase of the BXD line as there is a plan to extend the line to Broombridge and maybe even beyond it.

    IMO I think it should be a twin track on O'Connell St. it would look better and be more user friendly for tourists looking for the return tram after seeing the city centre.

    Looking at some of the Metro North plan drawings you can see the proposed Luas BXD line. From this drawing it looks like the trams on the red line will be able to turn left up O'Connell St. and the trams on the BXD line will be able to turn left on to Abbey St.

    Link:
    RTE news report


  • #33
    Poster King
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Poster King


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I must say that I have never understood the calls for the two Luas lines to be linked up and, if they must be, the Green line should be connected to the Red line via Pearse/Tara Street and Connolly Stations. In this way some additional traffic might be gained for the many millions of Euros that this project will eat up.

    I'm going to firstly express incredulity at your view that the two lines don't need to be linked up - can you explain, because to me it is absolutely imperative that they are linked, an immediately. It is a joke that we have two tram lines that do not integrate.
    However, I do agree somewhat with you suggested alternative route. I think that the new line should pass closer to Busarus and Connolly Station.

    Someone above said that Dublin Bus objected to there being two tram lines on O'Connell Street. Sod them. They can send their southbound buses down Marlborough Street. But in my view O'Connell Street is wide enough for pedestrians, two bus lanes, two regular car lanes and two tram lanes and a central median - especially as they removed all the mature trees. The two luas lines should be on one side of the street, and maybe share it with buses.

    Regarding the line to Broombridge, doesn't this have a lot to do with DIT moving to a site near Broadstone?


  • #34
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,885 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    For an integrated network to exist, we need to ensure that lines, such as the LUAS, link with each other, it should have been done from the outset, and we could already be talking about additional LUAS lines, rather than still joining up the two that already exist.


  • #35
    Enbee
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Enbee


    limklad wrote: »
    I am assuming this is a brand new line not just an extension of the Green Line.
    1/. I don't understand they started at St. Stephen Green since the Metro North already going from there to O'Connell Street.
    Metro North is a RPA project too.
    The Advertising for Metro North was meant to link the Green line to the Red line to allow commuters to gain access to both lines.

    The overlap between the two lines is better than one taking over from the other at SSG. Luas passengers (travelling from a southside stop) going to the Parnell Square area can remain on the tram rather than switching to the Metro to complete their journeys.


  • #36
    Enbee
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Enbee


    Poster King wrote: »
    Someone above said that Dublin Bus objected to there being two tram lines on O'Connell Street. Sod them. They can send their southbound buses down Marlborough Street. But in my view O'Connell Street is wide enough for pedestrians, two bus lanes, two regular car lanes and two tram lanes and a central median - especially as they removed all the mature trees. The two luas lines should be on one side of the street, and maybe share it with buses.

    Heh! Sod them indeed.

    Dublin Bus should ask for cars to be shifted from O'Connell Street instead.


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  • #37
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Poster King wrote: »
    Someone above said that Dublin Bus objected to there being two tram lines on O'Connell Street. Sod them. They can send their southbound buses down Marlborough Street.

    +1.

    If anything we should be thinking about how to remove DB from the OC/Westmoreland/Dolier axis and get the core of the city cleaned up and more pedestrian friendly. This area has such potential, being wasted as a glorified bus depot.

    Luas BX seems to just add to this vague mess rather than solving it, which it could so easily do. Talk about missing an open goal.


  • #38
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Indeed staying on a BXD line tram if it existed from Sandyford to Parnell Sq would get you there. But it would be peanuts compared to the amount of buses using the same corridor ( how many buses turn left at Dawson St/Nassau St currently ? )

    Also the traffic on Middle Abbey St and Harcourt St has never recovered since the LUAS lines were built, essentially apart from dropping off points they are really LUAS rights-of-way now.

    SSG West is only used really to get to car parks. ( waste of valuable city centre roads )

    Metro North ( edit: sorry had written west ) is already applied for , has been stated to be the priority, duplicates a lot of the city centre BXD and is better for the Northside.



    I repeat: crayoning of the worst order by the RPA, deserve a swat of the ruler for this crapola.

    Where's the useful stuff like Interconnector, MN ?


  • #39
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    trellheim wrote: »
    Where's the useful stuff like Interconnector, MN ?

    Haven't they already applied for a railway order for MN and are in the middle of APB hearings? And there's not much RPA can do about the interconnector ;)

    Maybe I'm being a pessimist but I can imagine BXD is more likely to happen in the short term than MN.


  • #40
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    trellheim wrote: »
    Metro West is already applied for , has been stated to be the priority, duplicates a lot of the city centre BXD and is better for the Northside.

    Do you mean Metro North? Metro West copies the M50, it's pretty much the most useless thing in T21. :confused:


  • #41
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    If anything we should be thinking about how to remove DB from the OC/Westmoreland/Dolier axis and get the core of the city cleaned up and more pedestrian friendly. This area has such potential, being wasted as a glorified bus depot.

    Dublin city centre definitely has to be cleaned up of all the traffic which is smothering it. With all the rail/light rail projects planned for the city centre (Luas, Metro North, Interconnector) there will be less demand for buses and the remaining buses could be accommodated on streets surronding the OC/Westmoreland/Dolier axis but not on it. Improved public transport means less private motorists in the city centre, they should be discouraged anyway, especially those who drive through the city centre to avoid paying the M50 toll. Less private motorists means more space for buses and we could build grade separated BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) corridors like has been suggested for Cork (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055942627).

    This would allow the creation of a pedestrian corridor stretching from Parnel Street end of O'Connell Street via Westmoreland Street and down Grafton Street to Stephens Green with a plaza in the middle at College Green. This would be fantastic for the city and make it more attractive. This corridor would be served by Luas above ground and Metro North and Dart via Interconnector underground. Of course if O'Connell Street was pedestrianise, except for Luas, it would allow trams to run down both sides of the street.


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  • #42
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Whoever made the call to have the Luas lines unconnected from Day 1 should be jailed. It was a ludicrous decision. At least they should have linked them, and cancelled the bit to the airport if they had to.

    But to have them disconnected was absolute madness.


  • #43
    Stonewolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭Stonewolf


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    With all the rail/light rail projects planned for the city centre (Luas, Metro North, Interconnector) there will be less demand for buses and the remaining buses could be accommodated on streets surronding the OC/Westmoreland/Dolier axis but not on it.

    I don't think you understand, this is Ireland, we don't do integrated. Dublin Bus doesn't see rail and light rail as synergistic partners, it sees them as competitors.


  • #44
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Stonewolf wrote: »
    I don't think you understand, this is Ireland, we don't do integrated. Dublin Bus doesn't see rail and light rail as synergistic partners, it sees them as competitors.

    Sadly this true on all fronts.

    Get on a DART or a Luas and the maps you see on them pretty much ignore the other company's transport system.

    Turf war wins over the people. :mad:


  • #45
    DWCommuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    How sad that 6 years after the opening of the two luas lines, we are still talking about joining them up. It was a monumental **** up and orchestrated by a Government party that still clings to power like a newborn baby clings to a bottle or titty.

    MONUMENTAL **** UP!

    And lots more to come no matter what party is in power. Irish politicians don't do decent public transport, but if they did, it would still be the worst public transport imaginable.

    Another CARLSBERG please.:D (and its only Wednesday night;))


  • #46
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Whoever made the call to have the Luas lines unconnected from Day 1 should be jailed. It was a ludicrous decision. At least they should have linked them, and cancelled the bit to the airport if they had to.

    But to have them disconnected was absolute madness.

    That would be Mary O'Rourke you could also charge Bertie Ahern with "joint venture" -- heck FF nearly scrapped the entire project when they got elected in 1997 so we should count ourselves lucky that we even got two disconnected lines.


  • #47
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    What does BXD stand for anyway? ... B*ll*XeD like the thinking that went in to the LUAS plans originally?:rolleyes:


  • #48
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    I still remain totally unconvinced that a city centre link up of the LUAS is necessary given that it duplicates Metro North for much of the route.

    There are other examples of this - Barcelona for example has two completely unconnected tram lines that are linked by metro. Why cause mayhem in construction when there will be a subsurface metro linking the two lines - with an integrated ticket allowing changeovers.
    markpb wrote: »
    Funny, if the linkup existed, I'd have used it twice a day, every working day for three years. My colleague who lives near James' Hospital and works in Sandyford would use it. Countless people would use it. People who live in Smithfield and work near Harcourt would use it. People who live in Tallaght and work in Charlemont would use it.

    Much of those journeys that you quote can already be done by bus without changing and with the various cross-city route mergers under the Network Direct project that will become even more possible. The 92 bus links the Quays area with the St Stephen's Green area. Anyone using the LUAS to go from Tallaght to Charlemont would want their head examined. They would use the 65/65b as the LUAS would be far slower.

    To the people who are saying sod Dublin Bus and move the services away from the city centre, I would make the point that even with the Interconnector, Metro North, and the various LUAS extensions, the bus will still remain the largest mode of public transport in the city. So should the majority of people be discommoded to facilitate a minority?

    I'm all for integrated transport, but Metro North will deliver the linkage between the two LUAS lines, and the Green Line and Irish Rail at Drumcondra. This absolute need to build line BX has always mystified me.


  • #49
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,536 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    What does BXD stand for anyway? ... B*ll*XeD like the thinking that went in to the LUAS plans originally?:rolleyes:

    lines B eXtension and D, the two original plans combined together


  • #50
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    KC61 wrote: »
    I still remain totally unconvinced that a city centre link up of the LUAS is necessary given that it duplicates Metro North for much of the route.

    Luas BXD Line is 5.6km long and Metro North is over 18km long. BXD only duplicates MN for a few hundred metres from St Stephens Green to O'Connell Street and those two places are the only places they will both have stations. That can hardly be considered duplication for "most of the route". From O'Connell Street they then run in completely different directions and will serve different communities. Line BXD is not just a link up.

    MN would not provide adequate links between the two existing Luas Lines when you consider metro stations will be >30m below the ground. It could not be considered an integrated network if after getting on the Luas you have to get off at a metro stop, go 30m below ground, travel one stop on the metro and go back above ground to get another Luas to complete your journey.
    KC61 wrote: »
    To the people who are saying sod Dublin Bus and move the services away from the city centre, I would make the point that even with the Interconnector, Metro North, and the various LUAS extensions, the bus will still remain the largest mode of public transport in the city. So should the majority of people be discommoded to facilitate a minority?

    The bus may be more popular now but that is because of the poor state of rail/light rail in the city. Once Luas extensions, MN and Interconnector are complete, rail will soon become a lot more popular than buses. Rail and light rail are higher capacity, more reliable and more sustainable then bus transport and that is why we should be moving away from bus transport. Just because the majority of people use buses at the minute does not mean we should focus on buses as the main mode of transport in Dublin city centre. That would be a very short sighted view.


  • #51
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    markpb wrote: »
    Funny, if the linkup existed, I'd have used it twice a day, every working day for three years. My colleague who lives near James' Hospital and works in Sandyford would use it. Countless people would use it. People who live in Smithfield and work near Harcourt would use it. People who live in Tallaght and work in Charlemont would use it.

    Just to add to my post above, I've not seen anywhere that trams will switch between the two lines or that there will be connecting tracks between the two. We'll have to wait until the EIS comes out to see.

    As I see it the two lines will be separate, and customers will have to get off at O'Connell Street off BX heading north and walk to Abbey to switch etc., which makes the argument for it all the less forthright in my view given the impending redesign of the bus network with more cross-city options and the development of Metro North.


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