Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

GerardKeating · 22-06-2010 8:17am #1

According to RTÉ, the RPA are finalised. and a railway order is due before the end of this month...

Apparently adds are in todays papers.

galwayrush · 22-06-2010 8:21am

I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:

Cool Mo D · 22-06-2010 10:34am

It's good news - especially with the D part, it makes the Luas much more of a network, and not just two unconnected lines.

Now, we have to wait and see if it's gonna get built?

galwayrush wrote: »

I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:

I don't get what you mean by this? Are you under the impression the current lines aren't the same?

Cookie_Monster · 22-06-2010 10:51am

Is this to be an extension of the Sandyford line, with a new terminus up on Parnell Sq somewhere or will the oring terminus remain at the green and a feeder tram(s) run between?

markpb · 22-06-2010 10:59am

galwayrush wrote: »

I hope they tender for a similar gauge rail to the existing lines, :rolleyes:

Similar to the rest of the RPA/tram network which it's extending - yes. Seriously, no-one cares about the gauge.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Is this to be an extension of the Sandyford line, with a new terminus up on Parnell Sq somewhere or will the oring terminus remain at the green and a feeder tram(s) run between?

The map on the RPA website shows it as a full extension of the Green line, ie running from Broombridge to Sandyford (and eventually to Bray).

I still hate the silly looping around the city centre - it can only add to the cost (both in time and money), requires more utilities to be diverted, significantly increase the area of disruption and require a new bridge. It's not like O'Connell st is a small, windy street. The only advantage I can think is that it's going through some dilapidated areas which might rejuvenate them in the future.

Cool Mo D · 22-06-2010 11:01am

It will be a new terminus at Broombridge.

Map here.

darkman2 · 22-06-2010 11:08am

I said it before but im against a line to Broombridge on the simple basis that it would be trashed by elements of the locals and because of a link up with the other lines, by proxy, it will make the other lines more unsafe for commuters. In a perfect world it is a good idea but I think the line would be unsafe for commuters. And if anyone has any doubt catch a train at Broombridge station one day to find out! I think this one line would be much worse then parts of the red line.

Cool Mo D · 22-06-2010 11:16am

darkman2 wrote: »

I said it before but im against a line to Broombridge on the simple basis that it would be trashed by elements of the locals and because of a link up with the other lines, by proxy, it will make the other lines more unsafe for commuters. In a perfect world it is a good idea but I think the line would be unsafe for commuters. And if anyone has any doubt catch a train at Broombridge station one day to find out!

It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

It's generally lads from Finglas or Cabra coming down to cause trouble where no-one is watching. Irish rail aren't helping, as they preferred to leave the station unmanned and unwatched to get trashed, rather than keep an eye on it. If the station wasn't so secluded and deserted at night, the trouble would move elsewhere, to an easier target, where they can wreck stuff in peace.

Even so, how could it make the Luas less safe, unless you actually go to Broombridge? They don't get on trains now, so why would they start getting on trams.

darkman2 · 22-06-2010 11:22am

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

It's generally lads from Finglas or Cabra coming down to cause trouble where no-one is watching. Irish rail aren't helping, as they preferred to leave the station unmanned and unwatched to get trashed, rather than keep an eye on it. If the station wasn't so secluded and deserted at night, the trouble would move elsewhere, to an easier target, where they can wreck stuff in peace.

Even so, how could it make the Luas less safe, unless you actually go to Broombridge? They don't get on trains now, so why would they start getting on trams.

lol - you obviously have not seen the fare dodging by the young thugs on the red line who think it's a free taxi to the Children's Court yet?

Im telling you now - you can make up all the excuses - this line will be unsafe. Mark my words. It does not matter where the scumbags are coming from. I hope the RPA look forward to all the broken in windows on trams as they get to O'Connell St. Ever had your train bricked?

Im of the opinion that the leftist nonsense does not work. Whatever you give an area like this a sh*t will be made of it quick time. It's unfair to the genuine locals who would like the service but it is reality. Just give them a few extra buses - they can trash them if they want, as they do. NOT 170m € of yours and my money.

rameire · 22-06-2010 12:05pm

i wonder will they be building this in two phases.
first phase from stephens green to parnel square and back.
and then second phase from parnell square to boombridge?

although i wouldnt be suprised if they built from parnel to boombridge first and then from stephens green to parnell square.

davem75 · 22-06-2010 12:53pm

I would prefer them to build the city tram tracks first. But I can see them doing broombridge to town first which is going to be a nightmare as the sc&m will trash the site every night of the week.

Stark · 22-06-2010 1:09pm

Cool Mo D wrote: »

It's not locals that cause trouble at Broombridge - there are no locals, it's in the middle of an industrial park.

There are plenty of residential areas around Broombridge. All rougher than a badger's ass too.

SeanW · 22-06-2010 1:24pm

I must agree with some of the above posts: I really don't see the point in building a Luas line to Boombridge.

markpb · 22-06-2010 2:08pm

SeanW wrote: »

I must agree with some of the above posts: I really don't see the point in building a Luas line to Boombridge.

Presumably it's not Broombridge per se but the fact that it can mostly be built on an existing alignment from Broadstone so it should be cheaper to build and won't suffer from the on-street limitations of the red line. Also, it results in a cross-city route, can be extended to Finglas later and integrates with the Maynooth line.

WezzyB · 22-06-2010 2:24pm

Looks like the sc&m have trashed the RPA website, it's currently unavailable. A sign of things to come.

Btw, I live 10 mins from broombridge and think the Luas extension will be great for the area, hopefully it will upgrade the site facilities and security.

trellheim · 22-06-2010 2:26pm

This is RPA acting the mickey. the b***x**d line is what it should be called. Metro west is the only one that should be built. [ Where the hell will all the bus routes go instead ? ]

Essentially you're talking about locking off Dawson St for 2-3 years and not even guaranteeing buses or taxis can get back onto it. So where will the 46A and other routes go instead ? behind Trinity and down Pearse St ? Crowded at the best of times

Cuffest/Aungier St - already chokka

RPA acting the mickey - no money for this at all, crayoning of the worst order.

markpb · 22-06-2010 2:41pm

trellheim wrote: »

Essentially you're talking about locking off Dawson St for 2-3 years and not even guaranteeing buses or taxis can get back onto it.

Dawson street is four lanes wide with on-street parking in the fifth lane. If there isn't space for two tram lines and at least one lane of traffic, I don't know how they managed to squeeze it into Harcourt St or Abbey St. The only problem I can see there is if any traffic will be allowed onto Nassau St between Dawson st and Suffolk st - if they're diverted around Trinity like you say, there are options to allow them to progress. They could use Westland Row & Lombard St to access the Samuel Beckett bridge and then the quays to get to O'Connell St. Or they could allow buses & taxies to turn left onto Nassau/Suffolk and re-direct outbound traffic along Pearse St, much like the bus gate does at the moment.

Cookie_Monster · 22-06-2010 2:45pm

can the Luas not share the road with buses in a dedicated lane or is that not allowed in Dublin? Would make sense, a lot less disruption and a lot less lane space lost.

markpb · 22-06-2010 2:46pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

can the Luas not share the road with buses in a dedicated lane or is that not allowed in Dublin? Would make sense, a lot less disruption and a lot less lane space lost.

Not until DB stop allowing cash payment on-board and sort out some extra doors!

Zebra3 · 22-06-2010 3:03pm

I really hope this goes ahead and finally connects the two lines and gives further integration by connecting with another rail line.

As for those moaning about the Luas going to Broombridge, you can't just give up on an area because of a minority of people. Hopefully the construction of the line means all the wasteland around Broombridge stn gets built on and those causing trouble there move elsewhere and finally IE can do up the stn without it getting trashed again.

Pete_Cavan · 22-06-2010 4:33pm

rameire wrote: »

i wonder will they be building this in two phases.
first phase from stephens green to parnel square and back.
and then second phase from parnell square to boombridge?

Building it in two phases an above would make sense as the second phase probably wouldnt be feasible until the single DIT campus at Grangegorman is built which will generate a few thousand passengers every day during the week.

SeanW · 22-06-2010 6:12pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

As for those moaning about the Luas going to Broombridge, you can't just give up on an area because of a minority of people.

I agree. But to fix the problems at Broombridge (and other parts of the country where gangs of roving scumbags rule with an iron crowbar) you'd need to have the army out with orders to shoot vandals on sight.

But the lefty-brigade would be too worried about the scobes "rights."

Then - and only as a result - you have to give up on places like Boombridge.

Steviemak · 22-06-2010 6:41pm

SeanW wrote: »

to fix the problems at Broombridge (and other parts of the country where gangs of roving scumbags rule with an iron crowbar) you'd need to have the army out with orders to shoot vandals on sight.

Really?

If they get the security right at broombridge and stop ticketless people boarding the trams it might have some impact but I wouldn't fancy using this tram past phibsboro and the bus can get you there in a few minutes anyway.

Poster King · 22-06-2010 6:50pm

markpb wrote: »

I still hate the silly looping around the city centre - it can only add to the cost (both in time and money), requires more utilities to be diverted, significantly increase the area of disruption and require a new bridge. It's not like O'Connell st is a small, windy street. The only advantage I can think is that it's going through some dilapidated areas which might rejuvenate them in the future.

In too am baffled by the decision to split the line and agree with all the points made above. Marlborough St is narrow, O'Connell Street is the widest in the country. I would love to hear the rational for this if anyone knows.

The link up between the two lines needs to be done ASAP. The current situation is a joke.

limklad · 22-06-2010 6:57pm

I am assuming this is a brand new line not just an extension of the Green Line.
1/. I don't understand they started at St. Stephen Green since the Metro North already going from there to O'Connell Street.
Metro North is a RPA project too.
The Advertising for Metro North was meant to link the Green line to the Red line to allow commuters to gain access to both lines.

Transport21 wrote:

http://www.transport21.ie/Projects/Metro_-_Luas/Metro_North.html

The Metro is a significant step in the creation of an integrated public transport system for Dublin. This first phase will link together all of the existing rail corridors in Dublin, by interchanging with the DART, the northern, north-western and south-eastern suburban rail lines, and the Luas Red and Green lines and bus services along the route.

http://www.transport21.ie/MEDIA/Press_Releases/Cullen_announces_selected__Route_for_Metro_North.html
Metro will offer a higher capacity than the Luas - as the trains will be longer and faster.

2/. I don't understand why break the route into two if they are going to use O'Connell street as a route. It is wider than Abbey street and that has the red line both directions.

3/. If they wanted to go to Broombridge why not use the existing railway lines to Connelly Station or better still, use Metro North to Drumcondra and take the Dart to Maynooth train which goes through Broombridge.
http://transport21.ie/Maps/upload/Image/DrulinRailMapBG.jpg

They would make better use of money and build a Railway stations to both side of Croke park on Jones road or at the canal end where they could create a two track railway at Croke park, where it would make more sense for match day fans and for the local areas!!

For such a brilliant and huge stadium, I never understood why Croke Park did not get a train station build in when they were redeveloped it in the first place.

Lauder · 22-06-2010 7:20pm

Any idea what will become of the glorious Broadstone Station building with the Luas going via there. By the maps it appears to run outside the station building, why not through it? Will this project be the final nail in the coffin for the reopening of the station for real trains?

D.L.R. · 22-06-2010 8:32pm

Agreed on the line split, an absolute dog's dinner. O'Connell is the most perfect street in Ireland for twin tramlines, it would look great, work great, and probably cost less. But no, we have to shunt this thing down Marlboro and fork out for a superfluous bridge when the widest bridge in Ireland lies 10 metres away. Mind boggling stuff.

No wonder the country is fooked with this kind of hairbrained thinking underlining all our endeavours.

markpb · 22-06-2010 10:53pm

limklad wrote: »

3/. If they wanted to go to Broombridge why not use the existing railway lines to Connelly Station

Turf war?

Like I said earlier, I don't think Broombridge is the aim - it just happens to be at the end of an already constructed railway alignment which means it's cheaper to build and has it's own right of way for part of the trip. Using the lines you're talking about would mean ripping up the tracks and signalling, re-laying them and finding an exit onto the road network at both ends while not actually joining the Green line.

Lauder wrote: »

Any idea what will become of the glorious Broadstone Station building with the Luas going via there. By the maps it appears to run outside the station building, why not through it?

I'd love to see it restored too but it's useless to Irish Rail (3 IC stations is more than enough for Dublin) and useless to RPA (on-street trams don't need or want that kind of facility - it's part of the attraction of light rail.)

Empire o de Sun · 22-06-2010 11:05pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

Agreed on the line split, an absolute dog's dinner. O'Connell is the most perfect street in Ireland for twin tramlines, it would look great, work great, and probably cost less. But no, we have to shunt this thing down Marlboro and fork out for a superfluous bridge when the widest bridge in Ireland lies 10 metres away. Mind boggling stuff.

No wonder the country is fooked with this kind of hairbrained thinking underlining all our endeavours.

Dublin Bus Objected to two tram lines.

Judgement Day · 22-06-2010 11:22pm

I must say that I have never understood the calls for the two Luas lines to be linked up and, if they must be, the Green line should be connected to the Red line via Pearse/Tara Street and Connolly Stations. In this way some additional traffic might be gained for the many millions of Euros that this project will eat up. As for Broombridge - forget it. The alignment from Broadstone to Liffey Junction would be much better used for heavy rail than for more useless Luas extensions.

markpb · 22-06-2010 11:27pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I must say that I have never understood the calls for the two Luas lines to be linked up

Funny, if the linkup existed, I'd have used it twice a day, every working day for three years. My colleague who lives near James' Hospital and works in Sandyford would use it. Countless people would use it. People who live in Smithfield and work near Harcourt would use it. People who live in Tallaght and work in Charlemont would use it.

As for Broombridge - forget it. The alignment from Broadstone to Liffey Junction would be much better used for heavy rail than for more useless Luas extensions.

It hasn't been used for passenger traffic since 1937 - I'd say it's better used for a tram line than growing grass. The only time Irish Rail made any noise about using it was when RPA wanted it - suddenly they had all sorts of previously undisclosed plans.

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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