M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

GeneHunt · 10-06-2010 11:45am

So the Slane bypass is going to be a long motorway so.;)

veryangryman · 10-06-2010 11:47am

GeneHunt wrote: »

So the Slane bypass is going to be a long motorway so.;)

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

120-odd posts (no pun intended) is probably the excuse for some of what you are posting. At the risk of getting a ban i wont tell you what im thinking, but the regulars here, im sure will echo it.

Sometimes there are not enough facepalms out there....

Amtmann · 10-06-2010 12:03pm

Gents, chill. Veryangryman, I've given you a warning for being bang out of order. Mocking someone's postcount and their posts to imply they're "not regulars" and so not as valuable or as welcome to post is unnacceptable. A one-month ban will be issued to anyone else who engages in this type of behaviour.

GeneHunt · 10-06-2010 12:10pm

veryangryman wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

120-odd posts (no pun intended) is probably the excuse for some of what you are posting. At the risk of getting a ban i wont tell you what im thinking, but the regulars here, im sure will echo it.

Sometimes there are not enough facepalms out there....

I'm not impressed at the dig!

Okay "veryangryman" I think I know your argument on the M3, but if bypasses around Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells were built instead of the M3, we would be doing a Nenagh bypass on it in ten year time, ie converting it to a motorway. And thats not good planning.

GeneHunt · 10-06-2010 12:12pm

Sorry Furet - I didn't see your post. Should have refreshed my page!

veryangryman · 10-06-2010 1:50pm

GeneHunt wrote: »

I'm not impressed at the dig!

Okay "veryangryman" I think I know your argument on the M3, but if bypasses around Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells were built instead of the M3, we would be doing a Nenagh bypass on it in ten year time, ie converting it to a motorway. And thats not good planning.

Nenagh bypass is part of an inter-urban route. The traffic volumes Dublin-Limerick justify the need for Dualler/Motorway. Cant say the same for places like Kells

bauderline · 10-06-2010 2:09pm

veryangryman wrote: »

The M3 should never have been built. Nobody gives a poop about it, best backed up by the current wiki page for the N3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N3_road_(Ireland)

Note the fact that the page STILL refers to the old route of N3 ("heavily congested towns of Nav and Dun")

Complete waste of money (and im sorry Meath commuters, but the road is from Dublin to Nowhere as opposed to every other Motorway project). Slane bypass should have been motorway before Navan/Dunshaughlin got theirs. At least that road would lead to a city

Yeah.... I think I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one....

The N3 had become an extremely congested road and with that extremely dangerous, I had to watch a 22 year old girl die in front of me on Sunday morning early in the year, it still haunts me, if they had been driving on the motorway she and countless other would still be alive. Also I would imagine the quality of lives of people in towns like Dunshaughlin, Navan, Kells, Carnaross will be infinitely better without the massive volumes of traffic constantly clogging their streets.

I have been driving the road for ten years and I can tell you a motorway was the only option the upgrade and bypass option would never have worked, cost a fortune and delivered little improvement, not to mention the disruption that would have been caused would have sent a number of peopel postal...

To my mind the M2 should never have been built, it really is the road to nowhere almost as pointless as that hotel at North end of it. I really cannot think of a good reason why people travelling to Derry would not use the M1 as far as Ardee turnoff and then use the link road to hop back onto the N2, quicker and safer I would imagine.

Also, if you are into climbing hills LoughCrew is infinitely more interesting than Tara as are the views from it, even Bruise Hill is more interesting looking when you are travelling up the final 2+2 section...

Yes... I will be driving home this evening with a big grin on my face !

You're in Cavan now so ya are !!

P.

Pete_Cavan · 10-06-2010 2:14pm

veryangryman wrote: »

The M3 should never have been built. Nobody gives a poop about it, best backed up by the current wiki page for the N3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N3_road_(Ireland)

Note the fact that the page STILL refers to the old route of N3 ("heavily congested towns of Nav and Dun")

Complete waste of money (and im sorry Meath commuters, but the road is from Dublin to Nowhere as opposed to every other Motorway project). Slane bypass should have been motorway before Navan/Dunshaughlin got theirs. At least that road would lead to a city

Derry may be signposted on the M2 but it is still faster to go via the M1 and then cut across the N33 onto the N2 at Ardee. The M2 is the most pointless motorway in this country as it really does lead to nowhere, unlike the M3.

The M2 is a greater waste of money then the M3 and should not be extended.. The only towns served by the M2 are Ashbourne and Slane and these could have been accommodated off the M3, Ashbourne traffic via Ratoath turnoff and Slane traffic as far as Navan and then take an improved N51 (or M1). Accessing Slane from Navan side would also avoid the need for the controversial Slane bypass as most traffic would no longer have to cross the bridge.

Upgrading the N2 from Ardee north and the N33 to 2 + 2 and route Dublin traffic coming from Monaghan/border onto the M1 would save the need for 40km of motorway between Ashbourne and Ardee and a bypass of Slane. This shouldnt be too difficult as Carrickmacross, Castleblaney and Monghan town have been bypassed in recent years so it would just mean adding a lane on either side. Who knows, with a bit of foresight when they were building these bypasses they might have CPO'd enough land to allow for this.

munchkin_utd · 10-06-2010 3:49pm

theres an awful lot of denial about the basic need for the road.

- The existing road was stretched to its limits and was consequently slow and dangerous. It is an old national primary route so many private entrances, small road junctions, all major junctions at grade. There was no hard shoulder along it either so nowhere for slow cars to pull in leading to people making rash manuevres.
In short it was a mess.

- the numbers also speak for themselves. From the NRA** the daily traffic on the road was as high as 15151 at Kells, 19042 at Tara and 17982 at Dunshaughlin.

A standard single carraigeway can take 11,000 cars a day, so the road is undisputably requiring an upgrade/ replacement.

With that established, and we all agree that something is needed, now heres some homework for ye.
With the above figures, which of the following roads should you build???? ***
(Also assuming that you are allowing wiggle room for expansion.)

• Type 1 Dual Carriageway – (Standard Dual Carriageway (i.e. motorway) capacity = 38,100);
• ‘Type 2’ Dual Carriageway - (2+2 lanes - no proper hard shoulder capacity = 20,000); and
• ‘Type 3’ Dual Carriageway - (2+1 lanes capacity = 14,000).
• Standard Single Carriageway (capacity 11,600)

Yes indeed.
A fully fledged motorway as far as Kells is what you would choose!! Its way over spec for the traffic, BUT the next alternative is a 2+2 which is almost at capacity on the opening day with traffic of over 19,000 vehicles a day so that AND any other lesser alternatives are non runners.

Beyond Kells theres no traffic figures published but a 2+2 also seems to be a wise choice for the road.

Anyone else care to tell me WHY the N3 should not have been replaced??

**source = http://nraextra.nra.ie/CurrentTrafficCounterData/index.html
***source = http://www.nra.ie/Publications/DownloadableDocumentation/ProjectAppraisal/file,14163,en.pdf - page 14

Jayuu · 10-06-2010 4:52pm

Well currently the M3 is a little bit of a road to nowhere although I suspect residents of Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells are quite happy about it.

But as I suggested earlier if the road was eventually continued to include Virgina, Cavan and then back east again to Clones and Monaghan to the border it would end up serving quite a large catchment area and give an alternative route to Dublin to the M1. It doesn't have to be motorway although it should be at least 2+2.

Jayuu · 10-06-2010 4:56pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The M2 is a greater waste of money then the M3 and should not be extended.

Again as I suggested earlier the M2 should be extended from where it ends to join the M3 north of Dunshaughlin. This section would have to be tolled similarly to the section of M3 but it would create two different routes into Dublin.

GeneHunt · 10-06-2010 5:01pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Complete waste of money (and im sorry Meath commuters, but the road is from Dublin to Nowhere as opposed to every other Motorway project). Slane bypass should have been motorway before Navan/Dunshaughlin got theirs. At least that road would lead to a city

veryangryman wrote: »

Nenagh bypass is part of an inter-urban route. The traffic volumes Dublin-Limerick justify the need for Dualler/Motorway. Cant say the same for places like Kells

Seeing as your brought up the subject of "traffic volumes", lets take traffic volumes for Slane.

From the NRA site the daily traffic on the road at Slane was as high as 6904 and you think a motorway "should have been built". Now that would've been a "complete waste of money".

Thanks munchkin_utd for the NRA link:cool:

Pete_Cavan · 10-06-2010 6:07pm

Jayuu wrote: »

Again as I suggested earlier the M2 should be extended from where it ends to join the M3 north of Dunshaughlin. This section would have to be tolled similarly to the section of M3 but it would create two different routes into Dublin.

I meant the M2 should not be extended towards Slane, which as GeneHunt has pointed out above is a non-runner.

Bringing over to the M3 sounds like a good idea to me. Would go some way to justifying the construction of the M2 and tolling it would prevent it from being used as a way of avoiding a toll on the M3.

This would involve building an additional 7km approx. of motorway, one GSJ which would serve both Ashbourne and Ratoath and probably a free flow interchange with the M3. Hard to see the tolls paying for all this but would allow some of the cost of the M2 to be recouped. Instead of building a toll plaza barrier flow tolls would have to be used but this might result in everyone using the M2 instead of the M3 in order to avoid the toll booths.

Dont think it will ever happen but like I said I like the idea.

D'Peoples Voice · 10-06-2010 10:53pm

Jayuu wrote: »

If you look at the map I drew there's no reason why Donegal traffic couldn't leave the motorway beyond Cavan and get back to the existing N3 at that point if they wished. You're also ignoring the fact that a motorway as far as Cavan would have significantly reduced their travel time already.

Its all hypothetical anyway. There's no way the M3 is going beyond where it is for many years. But if it were to be built there's also no reason in not exploring all the options that might be possible and continuing a M3 to the border near Monaghan adds extra levels of usefulness to such a road.

Jayuu,
in light of this I'm now inclined to agree with you - the M3 should join up with the N14 (A5)!
Maybe this was no accident either:rolleyes:

big mce · 10-06-2010 11:27pm

Can some-one tell me why there is no roundabout on the N52 (Kells bypass road) for the R163/R154 Oldcastle road. It seems strange to me that for some-one to travel from Oldcastle to Ardee they have to use the R154 then use the new DC N3 and enter the N52 using the end roundabout of the M3?

kbarnesie · 16-06-2010 11:19am

Travelling to Letterkenny from Maynooth on Friday morning.
Instead of getting on the M50 / M1 and taking Ardee exit should
I take the new M3....

Any advice ??

mcgeebers · 16-06-2010 4:30pm

I would take the new M3. It's about 30 - 40km shorter as the crow flies to Letterkenny. Head through Enniskillen, out the Omagh Road and onwards to Letterkenny. Google Maps will give you the precise turn off on the Omagh Road

kbarnesie · 16-06-2010 5:02pm

Thanks for thr reply.
Have you driven it or just going from google maps ?

mcgeebers · 16-06-2010 5:24pm

A close friend drove south Dublin - Portnoo in 3 hours 12 minutes on Sunday using the new M3. He said it's great and cuts a huge amount of time of the journey. It's also the most direct route when compared to the M1 or M4

Macca3000 · 17-06-2010 12:02pm

Forgot to post this. Tuesday after the bank holiday last week I drove from Wexford town to Oldcastle in 2 hours 21 minutes. And that was sticking to every speed limit. Every major town from there to here is now bypassed with dual carriage ways or motorways. It's €11.20 for the return journey but considering that's saving me almost an hour and 10 I'll be happy to pay it.

Of course I won't be using the M3 just to travel to Navan every day so I accept I'm not taking as a big a hit to the wallet as everyone else who is.

Irish and Proud · 17-06-2010 12:57pm

Macca3000 wrote: »

Forgot to post this. Tuesday after the bank holiday last week I drove from Wexford town to Oldcastle in 2 hours 21 minutes. And that was sticking to every speed limit. Every major town from there to here is now bypassed with dual carriage ways or motorways.

...from Gorey that is! :pac:

Enniscorthy is the one remaining major town that will hopefully be bypassed along with Camolin and Ferns. There's also the S2 bit North of Arklow, most of which is wide - the remaining 2 miles is bog standard - great to see that this is the "novalty" bit - role reversal from when I was a child when I got excited about a 2 mile bit of DC anywhere in Ireland. However, there are still very poor national primary roads, especially in the Northern half of the country.

A lot done, a lot more to do - the tax paying motorist should get all the credit!!!

Regards!

mackerski · 17-06-2010 5:50pm

mcgeebers wrote: »

A close friend drove south Dublin - Portnoo in 3 hours 12 minutes on Sunday using the new M3. He said it's great and cuts a huge amount of time of the journey. It's also the most direct route when compared to the M1 or M4

I was interested in this, because it would never have occurred to me to use such a route. I still find it a little difficult to believe, and have calculated two routes using OpenRouteService (a work in progress, but useful since it's among the only web routing engines that knows about the M3).

This Route is what it proposes when you ask for a route from Gorey to Letterkenny and force it to take the M50 rather than the N11 and Port Tunnel. It's 340km long and is calculated at 3:48 (timings could be poor, as OSM speed limit data is still a little lean).

This route is one that forces use of the M3. It's 352km long and calulcated at just over 4 hours.

So there's not that much between the two routes, and the M3 route feels to me to be the more indirect. It swaps a motorway dog-leg via the M1 for a rural road dog-leg via Omagh, which must surely be a longer drive. It also requires you to drive through Enniskillen, which isn't always very quick.

Or am I missing something?

Not · 17-06-2010 6:53pm

On my commute I enter the M3 northbound at Clonee and exit at the next junction Dunboyne. I was always wondering why all the traffic on the motorway was reluctant to go anywhere near the speed limit. Until I had an occassion to come at it from Blanchardstown.

This stretch is very clearly signposted as 100km/h as you enter it coming from Blanchardstown, but signposted as 120km/h as you enter the same stretch of road from the Clonee on ramp. Why ?

And which really applies ?

L1011 · 17-06-2010 7:02pm

The 100km/h is a roadworks speed order so has likely expired and they've forgotten to change the signs. Its 120km/h by default due to being motorway.

Jayuu · 18-06-2010 1:39am

Somebody does need to get their act together with regard to tidying up the old signage on this road. The most amusing of these is at Clonee where you get an end of motorway sign just as you actually start onto the new M3!

Having driven the road as far as Kells and back I like it. About the only negative thing I felt was that it seemed a little bumpy right at the last stretch as you approached the Kells end of the motorway.

Because I was in a hurry I didn't really try to work out where Tara was in relation to Junction 7 but nothing seemed obvious to me.

Not · 18-06-2010 1:46pm

Jayuu wrote: »

Somebody does need to get their act together with regard to tidying up the old signage on this road. The most amusing of these is at Clonee where you get an end of motorway sign just as you actually start onto the new M3!...

LOL, so I wasn't seeing things after all !!

PauloMN · 18-06-2010 1:58pm

Watch for the speed traps folks. Gardaí out pointing the revenue gun at the start of the M3 just past Clonee heading west.

Makes me :mad:.

mackerski · 18-06-2010 2:02pm

PauloMN wrote: »

Watch for the speed traps folks. Gardaí out pointing the revenue gun at the start of the M3 just past Clonee heading west.

Makes me :mad:.

Is this at the section wrongly signed for 100? Three guesses what limit they are enforcing :rolleyes:

bauderline · 19-06-2010 9:31am

That's three separate occasions in the last two weeks I have seen them on that final northbound stretch about 500 yds short of the start of the motorway. This is poor form from the Gardai... easy money and zilch contribution to road safety.

I also note someone took out the lampost in the Northbound lane just after the southern toll plaza last night... how do you manage something like that !!??

dotcom13 · 19-06-2010 3:02pm

Cavan to Bray

a few weeks ago was 2hrs :10 minutes on a Sunday and easily 3hrs+ on the weeks days.

Now it's 1:30 - 1:40 hrs

Fab stretch of motorway..

M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

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